Where does Brady Rank Among QBs All-Time, NOW?

[Eli's a God]

bottom line, if Eli is God, then Sammuel must be jesus.

Accepted. Sammuel is Jesus

 

[Eli's a God]

I have serious question for you. Do you really think Eli is a god? I mean, the dude has had like 3 or 4 good games in his life. Im not trying to knock him, he's done his thing in the playoffs this year, but really, he is the superbowl mvp by pure chance. The chances of the giants beating the patriots were slim, ok they did it, congrats...but eli had nothing to do with it imo. Sure he had a great drive at the end of the game, but if the refs did there job on that "escape" and blown the whislte when they should have, or thrown the flags when the giants clearly broke the rules, that drive would have been over. Plus, the 1 in a millionth chance that sammuel drops that pass helped Eli out alittle bit.

bottom line, if Eli is God, then Sammuel must be jesus.

Can we stop talking about a phantom holding non-call though? It didn't happen, it shouldn't have happened. There was a horse collar attempt during that play, so there would have been offsetting penalties.

I do however remember Wilfork blatantly poking Jacobs in the eye in week 17, a flagrant foul that didn't get called. Can I get some consistency with the whining about the refs please??

 

[eom]

4th quarter, yes. Popular opinion outside of New England says as much. I can't call it the greatest game in SB history, but to say it's the greatest 4th quarter isn't over exaggerating when the percentage of whiny jerkoffs who'd share my opinion would be pretty high.

fixed
.

 

[Eli's a God]

fixed
.

whiney jerkoff's? ironic

 

[Dino 6 Rings]

Ok, this is a great debate.

I'm sure most will agree on the following.
#1 Montana. Right, I mean, that's the general agreement for almost all NFL Fans.

Then it gets fun. First you have your favorite, mine of coarse is Bradshaw. And the arguements abound from there. Is Bradshaw the 2nd best QB of all time, probably not, is he the most under rated QB of all time, That I believe is true.

Brady, although, 3-1 in the big game, I saw an interesting fact, Brady never threw a TD pass over 8 yards in the SB. That's interesting to me. Does not in anyway disqualify him from the top 3 at all, its just, he's never lead his team to a Game winning TD or made that "huge throw" in the Superbowl that won the game. There is no "siganature moment" to really evaluate Tom with. He is awesome, in the top 5 all time for sure, and still has a long time to build stats and status, if he stays healthy. Great drives to get FGs in the SB to win.

Unitas, how many people evaluating QB play in this forum, or any forum, really saw the guy play other than in SB 3 highlights on ESPN Classic. Really though, who watched this guy from Draft to final snap, the way most of us did Montana, Elway, Marino, Favre. Its hard to evaluate Unitas from my perspective because I don't have access to the NFL tape of his career.

Staubach, Elway, both winners and losers in the SB. Both have legendary come backs, legendary SB Games, and are both HOF QBs. Both had to play some of the best in the game in their losses. And their wins.

Favre is in the same boat as Marino for me. The key for both of them being Longevity, however I give an edge to Marino for the simple fact, he made others around him great, he did the most of any QB in history with the mimimal talent around him. I mean, really, Mark Clayton and Marc Duper? Seriously...name 3 other offensive weapons he had to work with or name 2 defensive players from any team he played on for Miami. Unless a Fins fan or someone that remembers plays they made against your team specifically...its almost impossible. (No googling allowed folks.) For that reason, Marino is top 10 for me. Talk about doing it alone.

Steve Young, most over rated QB in the history of the NFL in my book. I still question his first ballot hall of fame vote. To me, he was a poor man's Elway with more talent around him and less success than anyone I've seen to this day. Maybe Payton is close to being that way, losing when you have so much talent to work with.

Also, Aikmen. 3 wins in 4 years. Big time player in the Big Game. Great leader on a team of "me" guys and did it with a huge change at the HC position and in philosophy.

I also like to look at who played who in the Big Game.

Elway vs Favre
Staubach vs Bradshaw (twice)
Bradshaw vs Tarkenton
Aikmen vs Kelly (twice)
Starr vs Dawson
Griese vs Tarkenton
Stauback vs Griese
Marino vs Montana
Brady vs McNabb
Stabler vs Tarkenton
Brady vs Warner
Elway vs Montana

Best QB in history is the Greatest Debate in Football.

 

[chrisfx811]

Dino- I agree with most of those sentiments.

As much as I love watching Brady play, he has lacked that signature moment for the most part.
In last year's AFCCG, all the Pats had to do was mount a little bit of offense, gain a couple first downs to chew up some clock, and the game is over. Not all Brady's fault, or any in some eyes, but they came up short.

In this year's playoff run, Brady looked very bad against the Chargers, yet came up when it counted.
In the Superbowl, he did mount a td drive in the clutch, despite having been held in check for the entire game, he just left too much time on the clock.

Was it poor play calling that left him open to more hits on the last gasp attempt to get into fg range? Was it his over reliance on Moss to bail him out on big bombs?
Brady held onto the ball for too long on the final drive of the 1st half that ended with is fumble. Was he worried too much about the long ball there? Seemed like it to me.

Enough about this year's run.

I've always wondered if Bradshaw was a truly 'great' qb, as I never got to see him play. Given that the era was different, and those teams were famous for many other things other than Terry, I've always been curious.

Montana is still #1.
I agree that Young is overrated. Hard to say if that's in the same vein as Peyton, since his career is unfinished, and he may add to his hardware (I hope not).

It is interesting to note how history remembers Elway since he pulled off the 2 wins at the end of his career, albeit with some cap shenanigans helping him (which I can't believe are rarely ever mentioned). He seemed destined to be remembered like Jim Kelly, then he turns it around and is considered one of the all time greats.

I just hope Brady doesn't finish like Aikman, with early career success and nothing after that.

 

[Dino 6 Rings]

I also, tend to take into consideration, today's qbs vs the qbs of the past, the rules of the game.

Back in the day, Deacon Jones would rip a QBs head off and not get a penalty. The Dbacks could tackle guys down field as long as the ball wasn't in the air, and things like that. 15 yard pentalty as opposed to the spot of the foul penalty on interference. Today's game is much more Offense and QB freindly than back in the day.

Brady did drive the Pats down the field this year, it was a great drive and more importantly, the best "play calling" drive of the night in my eyes for the Pats. They went to what worked all year and drove the ball down for 7 points and ate up almost 7 mins off the clock. Huge drive. Eli just had a bigger one. Not Brady's fault in the least. He is, in my "anti-Pats" "Pats-Hater" opinion in the top 5 of all time, and still has Status room to raise himself on my "brady-hater" list of top all time.

 

[Dino 6 Rings]

Bradshaw was a great big game qb. He'd show up when needed and threw more touchdowns while being driven into the ground than any qb I can remember. He'd always step up and take the hit to get the ball out. Had he been a better "thrower" Swann wouldn't have had to make some of the catches he's famous for, but Bradshaw did call all his own plays and did show up when it mattered most. His winning time is kind of short, he had about 9 great years, then the injuries caught up to him.

 

[#12]

Ok, this is a great debate.

I'm sure most will agree on the following.
#1 Montana. Right, I mean, that's the general agreement for almost all NFL Fans.

Then it gets fun. First you have your favorite, mine of coarse is Bradshaw. And the arguements abound from there. Is Bradshaw the 2nd best QB of all time, probably not, is he the most under rated QB of all time, That I believe is true.

I think that's a great point. I too believe that Bradshaw has to be one of the most underrated QB's of all time. Those Pitt teams had great talent, but I don't see how that should be the basis of taking credit away from Bradshaw where it is definitely due. That is the main fault with those who overlook him. I was not alive when he was playing in the 70's, however four rings speak for themselves...though i dont think he would be considered the best, he should definitely be in the talks.

 

[#12]

I disagree tho, with the above comments that Brady hasn't had signature moments. Are we talking superbowl/post season/regular season? I could name many for each. I don't think he has to throw the big touchdown or lead his team down the field for the touchdown to be considered the best. He's had plenty in some of the biggest games of his life...i think the touchdown to moss for the record 16-0 was a huge signature moment, granted not in the superbowl but how many other teams have gotten to 16-0 in the regular season? That was a huge game, and on top of it that was his 50th td pass and moss' 23rd. Also, in the playoffs I could give you list after list...how about his completion percentage in the Jacksonville game...that was killer to watch. Classic brady accuracy. In the superbowl he led his team to a touchdown that, if the defense had held, would have won the game. In Superbowl 38 he got the record for completions. Those are signature moments. IF he has his team in position to win with only a fieldgoal, then why should that take away from his performance? I guess a game winning touchdown is more exciting than say a game winning field goal but in both instances TB led his team down the field and in position to win the game. Pretty signature if you ask me...

 

[chrisfx811]

Good points #12.

If the defense cashes in on one of the multitude of opportunities they were given in SB42, then it would be all Brady, all the time coverage as to how he mounted another game winning drive, despite not being at his best.

I still can't believe they lost.

 

[Dino 6 Rings]

True, had the defense done its job, Brady has 4 rings, does get that game winning drive, and is considered one of the best.

Same as if Norwood hits the field goal, or if Thomas doesn't fumble away a superbowl, Kelly would be in the talks. But Brady still has 3 rings, did lead a team to 18-0 before the team had a let down. It isn't like he pulled a Neil Odonell and threw 2 huge picks in the biggest game of his life. Tom Brady is great. I just enjoy the debate of greatest of all time because there are so many great QBs that have played this game. Its one of the best "belly up to the bar" debates in sports history.

 

[richpats]

Show me another QB that won 3 SBs, 2 SB MVP's, led the league in passing yardage TWICE, broke the NFL TD record, won 4 conference titles, won an NFL MVP award, won 14 playoff games and 100 games total, led 28 4th-quarter comebacks.....IN HIS FIRST SEVEN YEARS STARTING.

The only thing going against Brady in the "all-time greats" debate is that his career is only half-over.

EDIT: I think it's important to note that Brady has led a 4th-quarter lead-changing drive in FOUR Super Bowls. That's pretty clutch in my opinion.

 

[#12]

Show me another QB that won 3 SBs, 2 SB MVP's, led the league in passing yardage TWICE, broke the NFL TD record, won 4 conference titles, won an NFL MVP award, won 14 playoff games and 100 games total, led 28 4th-quarter comebacks.....IN HIS FIRST SEVEN YEARS STARTING.

The only thing going against Brady in the "all-time greats" debate is that his career is only half-over.

EDIT: I think it's important to note that Brady has led a 4th-quarter lead-changing drive in FOUR Super Bowls. That's pretty clutch in my opinion.

Great summary...Brady still has a STRONG case for the best and has plenty of years to assert himself even more.

 

[Anatnom]

He couldn't carry Joe Montana's jockstrap.

 

[#12]

He couldn't carry Joe Montana's jockstrap.

Glad you could add such riveting expertise on this discussion.

Anyways, Bill Walsh doesn't agree with you (and that was BEFORE Brady won his second superbowl).

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/4069255/

"He's as close to Joe as anyone I've ever seen,'' former San Francisco 49ers coach Bill Walsh said between exercises to loosen up a bad back. "Plays that are tough for some quarterbacks are not tough for him. The word that comes to mind when I watch him play is ‘serene.’ There is a serenity to the way he plays.

"He is a very accurate passer. He throws a very catchable ball, a ball receivers can make plays with. But the most important thing is he makes great decisions. If he continues to have the success he's having, you'd have to rate him up there with Joe.''

OH and for that matter, neither does the man himself, Joe Montana...
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2008/01/31/2008-01-31_untitled__patbook31s.html

"He has the ability and he has a lot of time left, so he will probably pass everybody," Montana told the Daily News. "I never like to say the greatest of all time, but when he is done, he will be the best one who ever played."


"When you watch highlights of Sammy Baugh, it's pretty amazing," Montana said. "It's hard to compare to Tom or me or Johnny Unitas or (Dan) Marino or Brett (Favre) or whoever you want to put in there. But if Tom keeps going and if they keep the team together, he will blow everybody away."

Now, I still consider Joe Montana to be the greatest QB to ever have played the game, but to say TB is not up there is absolutely ridiculous. With only half of his career finished, he's already being considered up there and THAT is a testament to his greatness, not to mention well deserved.

 

[#12]

Good points #12.

If the defense cashes in on one of the multitude of opportunities they were given in SB42, then it would be all Brady, all the time coverage as to how he mounted another game winning drive, despite not being at his best.

I still can't believe they lost.

Me neither, but I have a feeling there is going to be a LOT more coverage on TB throughout his career and more SB victories ahead....that next one is coming, he can only be held down for so long...

 

[Keegs]

right now i think Brady is better than Montana, but you can't say it yet.

So it has to be this.....

1a. Montana
1b. Brady






everyone else.

anyone who says otherwise, has no clue what the hell they are talking about. you HAVE to put those 2 at the top.

 

[Anatnom]

Brady is an all time great, I was fishing just a bit with my last post. The problem is that it is hard to compare the two due to the differences in the game.

I will always think of Joe as #1. I am a Niners fan, how coulod I not? You guys have an all time great playing for you, and you need to appreciate every moment of it. We Niner fans were blessed with having Steve Young follow Montana, you may not be so fortunate.

 

[#12]

Brady is an all time great, I was fishing just a bit with my last post. The problem is that it is hard to compare the two due to the differences in the game.

I will always think of Joe as #1. I am a Niners fan, how coulod I not? You guys have an all time great playing for you, and you need to appreciate every moment of it. We Niner fans were blessed with having Steve Young follow Montana, you may not be so fortunate.

Of course, and you have every right to. Joe Montana is amazing and a class act. I'm not so much a fan of Young, but he was a great player as well. Montana is the undisputed #1 right now, and if Brady is ever considered equal that would be a tremendous accomplishment. I do see Brady as a clear cut 2...