Welcome to PatsFans.com

Where does Asante fall to you in terms of important player?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATRIOT64, Apr 6, 2007.

  1. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,775
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    If you had to make a list of 10 Patriots players currently on this team,where would Asante Samuel rank ,if at all in the top 10 of most important players of the Patriots right now to help win games consistently?

    In order I rank them as follows as being most important players for continued success in NE in 2007.

    1) Brady
    2) Seymour
    3) Wilfork
    4) Warren
    5) Adalius Thomas (jury is still out without any play yet,although we expect him to be a very important player here)
    6) Mike Vrabel
    7) Rodney Harrison
    8) Asante Samuel
    9) Ellis Hobbs
    10) Laurence Maroney

    That puts my view of things as Asante 8th most important player on this team...The fact I don't have him in the top 5 means I think he can be replaced adequately over a short period of time.

    I still think his 11 interceptions was a bit overated as Ints usually are anyways,He grabbed 3 from Rex and 2 from a rookie Vince Young - Thats half of his total all year...Asante is replaceable,By whom? - No one knows yet but 2007 season is not over if he leaves.
  2. zarakotas5

    zarakotas5 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    929
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    If I trim your question down to just this, and think about it literally, I don't think he'd make my top-10 list. If the list was top-10 players, then yeah, he'd be in the 5-10 range. I think you raise a interesting point.

    PS: Outta curiosity, where&why you putting Tedy?
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2007
  3. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,775
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    I love Tedy like all of us do,but in terms of his play which obviously is taking a downward spiral fast I regret not being able to include him as a top ten important player anymore,He just is not the same as he was in his prime thus important figure drops as well.

    I hope we can get a Bruschi clone in this years draft (Poluszny is closest comparison) to make his certain retirement in 2008 much easier to deal with.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2007
  4. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,775
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    I also did not include any receivers because after last year Brady has shown me he can take any scrap heap WR and make him productive in this system...Only a bonus getting top guys like Stallworth and Welker but not as critical as most players on my list who are on defense.
  5. jbb9s

    jbb9s Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,160
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

  6. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,775
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

  7. zarakotas5

    zarakotas5 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    929
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I agree that he ain't what he usta be. But, in the scope of your original question, whatever play he does give us has direct bearing on the Pats' chances of winning. He is the QB of the defense, therefore making him important. Unfortunately, his decline is beginning to cast a shadow on his importance. In contrast to Samuel, Tedy wouldn't make my top-10 players skill/talent-wise, but would make my top-10 importance list, for better or for worse.
  8. TomBrady'sGoat

    TomBrady'sGoat Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,769
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Yeah, I had this thought when I saw a link titled "patriots star wants trade." I thought it was somewhat misleading when I could think of 5 guys off the top of my head who are better than he is.

    I'd have to pretty much agree with your list, except for Ellis Hobbs somehow coming in at #9. I think you listen to too much Michael Holley.
  9. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    20,840
    Likes Received:
    125
    Ratings:
    +330 / 21 / -2

    An excellent thread!

    I think the performance of Maroney is critical to this team, especially with Dillon gone. I wouldn't put Thomas before Vrabel. My list.

    The defensive backfield can survive OK performance by any one or two players, except that we are now depending on Hobbs as a anchor. The OL, WR and TE are not here not because they are not critical, but rather because those units ae units with great backup, and no one individual need be counted on as a playmaker.

    In the end, we will probably need Samuel to be off the list. The replacement for now is probably Sanders. That seems so strange, to consider Sanders wore import to the 2007 success of the team than Samuel, but I suspect that this is indeed the case.

    The other player that might be #10 is whover replaces Dillon; that is, whoever shares reps with Maroney and replacing him when he is out. Unfortunately, I don't know who tha player is.

    1. Brady
    2. Wilfork
    3. Seymour
    4. Warren
    5. Maroney
    6. Hobbs
    7. Vrabel
    8. Colvin
    9. Thomas
    10. Samuel

    I am beyond counting on Bruschi, Harrison, and Wilson for our success in 2007. I expect them to be important, but we must be prepared for them not to be critical playmakers.






    Last edited: Apr 6, 2007
  10. satz

    satz Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Over the last 5 yrs we have a tradion of using 15 DB`s due to injurys.So When you rank him you have to give him a weight in the DB`s first and over the team.

    As brushi is not even the list so is ty warran who have played more than asante .I value a players on how long he is on the field.Asante is high but then he plays one of the best front 7 with BB coaching.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2007
  11. Drewwho

    Drewwho Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,105
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    1. Brady

    2. Wilfork
    3. Warren
    4. Harrison (when heathly)
    5. Samuel
    6. Seymour
    7. Maroney
    8. Koppen
    9. Vrabel
    10. Miller

    I can't put Thomas, Welker, Stallworth or any other new signee on the list until we see them in our system as part of our team. I do value Samuel and last season (and that is all you can go by) he was ahead of Seymour in terms of importance and production to the team.
  12. Pat_the_Patriot

    Pat_the_Patriot Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2007
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    1. Brady
    2a. Seymour
    2b. Wilfork
    4. Harrison (when healthy, leadership)
    5. Thomas
    6. Bruschi (leadership)
    7. Samuel
    8. Colvin
    9. Vrabel
    10. Koppen

    just missed the top ten: Warren, Light, Maroney, Welker, Brown (I'm just too big of a fan)

    I'm "projecting" Thomas and Welker here. Warren drops because of Green's value. Koppen and Light drops because of our outstanding coaching staff and their ability to continue to develop linemen from deep in the draft or by picking up outcasts (i.e. Britt).

    I'm not certain that Maroney can handle the full load... I'm HOPING that he can, but that remains to be seen.

    I don't think Harrison and Bruschi's leadership can be discounted at this point... I'm not sure if/when Vrabel, Thomas and/or Colvin can step up and take over those duties in the LB corp.... but until one does, the group is just a diff. group without Bruschi leading them... same thing for Harrison with the DBs.

    That being said, two of my top six have got to be retiring in the next 2 years.... and if/when that happens (of if they're play continues to slip) then Samuel IS in my top 5... "he's next" so to speak.

    I do HOPE that we sign him.... BUT, in BB I trust and it will be interesting to see where this goes! Great thread.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2007
  13. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    16,084
    Likes Received:
    271
    Ratings:
    +623 / 6 / -18

    People are overvaluing Harrison, IMO. A punter as #10? What?
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2007
  14. thomas144

    thomas144 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 3 / -0

    I was under the impression that most Patriots fans thought that Ty Warren was the team's best defensive lineman last season, so I am very surprised to see anyone rank him below Vince Wilfork.

    Up until last season my take on Asante Samuel was that he would be really good if he could develop a pair of hands. I think he showed last season that he can now catch the ball.

    Nevertheless I was not really impressed by him until just recently when I watched the San Diego playoff game on Comcast On Demand. I had not realized at the time that Philip Rivers was throwing constantly against Ellis Hobbs, avoiding Samuel. It's pretty amazing. Then, on the rare occasion when a pass did come Samuel's way (only about 3 times in the game I think) he made a fantastic play. And that was the only playoff game in which he did NOT return an interception for a touchdown.

    All this is to say that I think he is one of the really elite players on the team, thus:

    1.) Bill Belichick
    2.) Tom Brady
    3.) Dante Scarnecchi
    4.) Richard Seymour
    5.) Ty Warren
    6.) Asante Samuel
  15. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    I'm not sure if your intent here was to rank players or positions, but I think you have to look at it as a little bit of both ever mindful of how the system works here. And on that basis Asante does not make my top ten. Guys who do who are retiring or aging out must be replaced, and in order for the team to continue to succeed those players will necessarily replace them in my top ten. And to replace what those players bring may cost a lot more than those players have required from the organization financially because I don't think you replace some of them via the draft. CB you do behind an elite veteran SS and a mostly veteran and fairly elite front 7 unit that plays at a high level.

    1. Brady - QB

    2. Harrison - SS
    3. Bruschi - ILB
    4. Seymour - DE
    5. Vrabel - OLB/ILB
    6. Thomas - ILB/OLB+

    7. Warren - DE
    8. Wilfork - NT
    9. Maroney - RB
    10. Light/Mankins LT/LG

    If there were a few more slots, say a top 15, I would include OLB (Colvin), C (Koppen), a go to WR (whether #1 or slot), TE (Watson I guess...), and I'd still have a hard time fitting Asante's position in ahead of what a Faulk represents in this offense.

    I think Hobbs coming in out of the third round and playing so well his rookie year and even well enough in his sophomore year he pretty much stuck through a broken wrist, not to mention Gay and Samuel coming in as day 2 picks and playing through a 17-2 championhip season is an indication that we can continue to man that position through the draft and the fringes of FA if we focus on maintaining the caliber of players they play behind.

    A few years ago we lost an elite pro bowl LCB (not to mention a decent veteran RCB) early in the same season and still went on the win it all. I remain convinced had we not lost our SS to injury or had our best ILB not suffered a stroke in 2005 (and our next best ILB unexpectedly retired, not to mention losing both our C and LT for the season and having all our RB dinged up) we would have threepeated despite a revolving door unit of DB's that included a WR and multiple UDFA's. And had we not lost our SS again down the stretch and both of Brady's best WR's not named Brown to FA in 2006, we would have fourpeated. Having lost a double digit cap killer ball hawking shut down corner would not have and did not derailed us. It was the loss of SS and/or ILB and WR or RB issues that adversely impacted us. Would having that shutdown CB on the roster have saved us? Not likely because he isn't that player any more, and neither is Asante. Having a Law didn't save us in 2002 and having Asante didn't save us in 2005-2006. Having a fully functional and healthy Rodney or Tedy likely would have.

    It would be nice to retain Asante at a reasonable price. He is more than competent and durable. But neither he nor his position is a lynchpin one for this team to win. And if overpaying to "market" to retain him means we have less capacity to retain or replace more significant contributors, I'll take the pick or picks thanks.
  16. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    Which is probably why we lost. It's not who played best, it's who do we need to play best. Asante had a career year, and it didn't save us because Seymour and Bruschi and Harrison (due to aging or injury) had down years.
  17. thomas144

    thomas144 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 3 / -0

    Even though I just ranked him a close 5th behind Dante Scarnechia, I agree with that. I am not all that worried about replacing him, although part of that is my assumption that they are going to draft at least one cornerback in the first round this year.
  18. PatsFaninAZ

    PatsFaninAZ Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,097
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    I think it's almost the wrong question.

    The problem with this whole Samuel thing is that we have a championship quality team right now, and we've been cruising. This is a speed bump. I want this train to just keep on picking up momentum.

    We can't mortgage our future for one player, and if he has to go, so be it. But I'm a bit worried about the destructive effect of the situation.
  19. Ice Cold Bruschi

    Ice Cold Bruschi Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    As of now I think that Maroney's and Harrison's performances next year will be the most important to the success of the team.
  20. Crowpointer

    Crowpointer Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2006
    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>