Wheatley and Wilhite

[spacecrime]

By this logic you are saying that Moss and Welker are #3 and #4 options.

You are reading it backwards. Point was that people are saying W/W looked better than Hobbs, but Hobbs covered #1 whil W/W cover # 3 or #4

So the questio was, what if it were reversed? What if W/W covered#1 type WRs and Hobbs covered a #3 or #4? That is, Hobbs covering Aiken, and W1 n Moss and W2 on Welker

 

[VJCPatriot]

talking about press coverage....u say springs and wilhite can do it well, what about the rest of our cb's? any idea

McCourty is supposed to be a very physical CB, but supposedly he plays better in zones than man to man. We'll just have to see how they emerge in camp. But with Bodden, Butler, and McCourty I think we've got a pretty good starting trio. Springs provides depth and Wilhite's weaknesses won't be as exposed as the 4th or 5th db.

As for Wheatley, him, Crable, and Brace are in the invisible men club.

 

[jeffbiologist]

Before anyone anoits McC a position in the pecking order please go back to some of the threads praising Wheatley's prowess on ST and such. Its naucious.

 

[italia44]

Keep in mind Hobbs was going up against opponents' number one WR, while Wheatley and Wilhite are up against other team's #3 and #4 WR when they occasionally get on the field.

Put it this way: if Hobbs is covering Aiken while Wheatley and Wilhite are covering Moss and Welker, which of those three corners is going to look best?

sorry,but your confusing Cornerbacks and Nicklebacks........Hobbs was a RCB,generally covering the oppositions #2.........In this pairing,the LCB(Samuels,Revis,etc) covers the #1 receiver.......this is generally true as right-handed QB's prefer the right side line of sight,t0 the left side.Also,right handed receivers(the norm)prefer the right side.

To give him at least a little credit,Wilhite has played the harder LCB position,however ineptly.....while Wheatly has shown absolutely nothing during his interlude at RCB and NB.

What Wheatley and Wilhite don't have is "closing speed".......Bodden does,as does Darius Butler and hopefully Devin McCourty.Ellis Hobbs was one of the fastest straight-line corners,I've ever seen,but had little "closing" speed.

To show you an example of this:Cromartie of the Jets is the best "closer" in football,even better than Revis.......NEVER throw the 15 yd out against Cromartie.....I mean Never.However,he'll fall for a double-move pattern and is below par,if you can draw him towards the center of the field and make him cover and tackle laterally,not towards the sideline.

Revis is even better because it's "Death" to try to throw inside him.......he undercuts better than anyone.I'm anxious to see what the Jets will do,this year,if we line up Moss on the left side.Will they bring Revis over,as before?......If they do,Brady will lick his chops against Cromartie,outside his comfort zone.......can't wait.

 

[supafly]

Revis is even better because it's "Death" to try to throw inside him.......he undercuts better than anyone.I'm anxious to see what the Jets will do,this year,if we line up Moss on the left side.Will they bring Revis over,as before?......If they do,Brady will lick his chops against Cromartie,outside his comfort zone.......can't wait.

Isn't it quite possible that Cromartie will receive a decent amt of help having a safety cheat to his side, creating some double coverage?

We all know that Revis is probably the best shutdown CB in the game, and has proven to stop pretty much anyone. He has only gotten better, and didn't even need much safety help vs. Moss in the 2nd matchup last yr. I believe Revis will handle just about anyone one on one, while Cromartie's side will be just as hard because a lot of the time he'll have a safety cheated a bit to his side--creating a form of double coverage.

I think this is what RR wanted, to make it even harder to throw obviously, but to also give his pass rushers (usually 4 or 5) an extra second or two because of better coverage. This obviously plays into the NYJ favor.

I'm not saying Cromartie is anything great, but I also think that RR is a bit smarter than many give him credit for--at least with his defense. I don't think that he's going to let anyone pick apart Cromartie all day, as some on this board seem to think. I recognize his weaknesses at tackling, double moves, etc--but I also feel he'll do a bit better with a more established surrounding cast around him.

 

[supafly]

Before anyone anoits McC a position in the pecking order please go back to some of the threads praising Wheatley's prowess on ST and such. Its naucious.

Whoever is annointing McC a position in the pecking order is likely right to do so, seeing as how he'll be blended in sub packages throughout the year, and certainly on ST. What would your explanation of D.Butler be then, seeing as how he saw many valuable reps last year?

And who ever said Wheatley wasn't good on ST? He obviously has some good speed, and played on ST at Colorado + here in his first year. He was even showing flashes at CB until he was injured vs. IND in 2008. His injury status likely dropped him down the depth chart in TC last year, as Wilhite seemed to pass him up. He was never able to recover his job for whatever reason, and is still somewhat of an unknown.

 

[italia44]

Isn't it quite possible that Cromartie will receive a decent amt of help having a safety cheat to his side, creating some double coverage?

We all know that Revis is probably the best shutdown CB in the game, and has proven to stop pretty much anyone. He has only gotten better, and didn't even need much safety help vs. Moss in the 2nd matchup last yr. I believe Revis will handle just about anyone one on one, while Cromartie's side will be just as hard because a lot of the time he'll have a safety cheated a bit to his side--creating a form of double coverage.

I think this is what RR wanted, to make it even harder to throw obviously, but to also give his pass rushers (usually 4 or 5) an extra second or two because of better coverage. This obviously plays into the NYJ favor.

I'm not saying Cromartie is anything great, but I also think that RR is a bit smarter than many give him credit for--at least with his defense. I don't think that he's going to let anyone pick apart Cromartie all day, as some on this board seem to think. I recognize his weaknesses at tackling, double moves, etc--but I also feel he'll do a bit better with a more established surrounding cast around him.

You're missing my point......I wasn't denigrating Cromartie in the least.....he's a very,very,good CB
Next.....All free safetys cheat to one side and all of them cheat to Moss's side....yes,even with Revis.....the FS cheats to his side.

What I'm describing is the Jets prediliction to have Revis cover Moss,wherever he lines up,as they did in both games last year.No matter how you slice it,they will still cheat the safety to that side.
Corners are NOT interchangeable....the more you pin Cromartie to the center of the field or
covering at LCB,the less effective he will be.

All I'm saying is that this isn't just "plug and play".....this is a complex defense that T-Rex runs and it's not going to be easy to use Revis all over the field,with Cromartie and Brodney Poole.

 

[Badluck]

wilhite hes a step away from being a good CB IMO

 

[Sicilian]

Wilhite can usually be seen about 5-10 yards behind an opposing receiver who is streaking toward the end zone while Wheatley can regularly be seen on the sidelines or the injury report. So, basically, your guess is as good as mine.

This is a bit beyond exaggeration. Saying Wilhite got beat too much is one thing, can't really argue that. But he was NOT Duane Starks or Deltha O'Neal. He was rarely ever trailing 10-15 yards back (unless everyone else on the team was too). His problem was making a play on the ball, even though he was usually in pretty tight coverage.

He may never improve that, but let's not start talking like he was some disaster at corner last year.

 

[eagle eye]

Wilhite plays to his level, Wheatley has potential to be much better but I think this will be his last season if he doesn't improve.

 

[ALP]

sorry,but your confusing Cornerbacks and Nicklebacks........Hobbs was a RCB,generally covering the oppositions #2.........In this pairing,the LCB(Samuels,Revis,etc) covers the #1 receiver.......this is generally true as right-handed QB's prefer the right side line of sight,t0 the left side.Also,right handed receivers(the norm)prefer the right side.

To give him at least a little credit,Wilhite has played the harder LCB position,however ineptly.....while Wheatly has shown absolutely nothing during his interlude at RCB and NB.

What Wheatley and Wilhite don't have is "closing speed".......Bodden does,as does Darius Butler and hopefully Devin McCourty.Ellis Hobbs was one of the fastest straight-line corners,I've ever seen,but had little "closing" speed.

To show you an example of this:Cromartie of the Jets is the best "closer" in football,even better than Revis.......NEVER throw the 15 yd out against Cromartie.....I mean Never.However,he'll fall for a double-move pattern and is below par,if you can draw him towards the center of the field and make him cover and tackle laterally,not towards the sideline.

Revis is even better because it's "Death" to try to throw inside him.......he undercuts better than anyone.I'm anxious to see what the Jets will do,this year,if we line up Moss on the left side.Will they bring Revis over,as before?......If they do,Brady will lick his chops against Cromartie,outside his comfort zone.......can't wait.

owww, excellent thanks for that analysis

so who do u see us keeping for this upcoming season at the cb spot?

 

[Kontradiction]

This is a bit beyond exaggeration. Saying Wilhite got beat too much is one thing, can't really argue that. But he was NOT Duane Starks or Deltha O'Neal. He was rarely ever trailing 10-15 yards back (unless everyone else on the team was too). His problem was making a play on the ball, even though he was usually in pretty tight coverage.

He may never improve that, but let's not start talking like he was some disaster at corner last year.

He wasn't a disaster, but he was by no means a good CB either.

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

Wheatley showed some glimmers of potential his rookie year before he broke his already surgically repaired wrist that already contained a steel rod (SHOCKER!) Wilhite has been mediocre to awful since he got a starting job, makes me wonder why we traded hobbs who wasn't nearly as bad and was a dynamite special teamer.

 

[Patriot 37]

Wheatley was a healthy scratch for quite a few games last year. This whole "Wheatley showed flashes thing" I don't get. I've never seen him do anything. I remember watching them in training camp there rookie year thinking that even in drills Wilihite looked a lot better. I would be shocked if Wheatley makes the team.

Whose is better Wilhite or Hobbs is tough because they are so similar but I'd give it to Hobbs. I thought trading him was stupid because at the very least he was a top KR.

 

[patriotscpfc]

Keep in mind Hobbs was going up against opponents' number one WR, while Wheatley and Wilhite are up against other team's #3 and #4 WR when they occasionally get on the field.

Put it this way: if Hobbs is covering Aiken while Wheatley and Wilhite are covering Moss and Welker, which of those three corners is going to look best?

Incorrect.

Hobbs was not always up against the Opponents #1.

Wilhite has been manned up against the #2 and #3 WRs. And at times the #1 WR. Our players play the position, not the player. Not like the Jets who have Revis following the #1 WR everywhere.

 

[supafly]

He wasn't a disaster, but he was by no means a good CB either.

He was certainly the weakest link in the secondary by far, I agree with you. Personally, I can understand those who say that Wilhite hasn't had enough time, and maybe that's true, but I'm missing those who say that he is going to be good. I'm also missing any comparions to E.Hobbs, who at worst was a viable nickle back, yet played just fine as a #2 CB. Hobbs had problems when Samuel left, and he was asked to be a #1 CB--and even then, he did better than Wilhite.

Wheatley showed some glimmers of potential his rookie year before he broke his already surgically repaired wrist that already contained a steel rod (SHOCKER!) Wilhite has been mediocre to awful since he got a starting job, makes me wonder why we traded hobbs who wasn't nearly as bad and was a dynamite special teamer.

I'm guessing BB thought that he was expendable due to the younger CB's being defense ready + ST ready, but he was obviously wrong. After looking back through headlines and articles he often praised Hobbs, so I'm not convinced it was his play. The common mis-conception is that his contract was up after last yr, but he would've played 2 more years because he was just a RFA.

 

[supafly]

Wheatley was a healthy scratch for quite a few games last year. This whole "Wheatley showed flashes thing" I don't get. I've never seen him do anything. I remember watching them in training camp there rookie year thinking that even in drills Wilihite looked a lot better. I would be shocked if Wheatley makes the team.

Whose is better Wilhite or Hobbs is tough because they are so similar but I'd give it to Hobbs. I thought trading him was stupid because at the very least he was a top KR.

You can't be serious. Any comparisons of 2008 Hobbs to 2009 Wilhite are completely ridiculous.

Go to the site's infamous profootballfocus.com and compare the two. 2008 Hobbs was in the middle of the pack, while 2009 Wilhite is at the bottom.

If anything, Hobbs is a helluva lot closer to Bodden than he was to Wilhite. (and no, I'm not comparing the 2 in overall talent)

2009 Bodden--90 attempts 45 completions
2008 Hobbs---78 attempts 45 completions

Plus, as others have pointed out, Hobbs was in the base lined up against #1's and #2's--while Wilhite was often in sub nickle/dime lined up against #2-#4's.

How about in the 06 AFCCG when Hobbs was green still, yet lined up on Reggie Wayne and batted away multiple balls in perfect coverage? (He obviously wasn't perfect the whole game, yet still held his own) There's absolutely no way that Wilhite can do that--yesterday, today, or tomorrow.

 

[condon84]

They both don't have any business as a starting CB in this league.

Wheatley showed signs of "flashes" against Indy for about a quarter and a half his rookie year, but he was largely a healthy scratch all of last year.

Meanwhile, if Wilhite actually knew how to play the ball and deflect passes, then maybe he could be a decent CB.

My theory: BB thinks they both suck and that's the reason he picked up Bulter last year in the second round and McCourty this year in the first round.

 

[Intommywetrst]

OT: I can't start threads but I just found this really short video I thought you guys might like. I was happy to see Welker without a brace....

YouTube - ESPNLA.com: David Beckham, Wes Welker and Tom Brady on the sideline at UCLA football game

 

[Patriot 37]

You can't be serious. Any comparisons of 2008 Hobbs to 2009 Wilhite are completely ridiculous.

Go to the site's infamous profootballfocus.com and compare the two. 2008 Hobbs was in the middle of the pack, while 2009 Wilhite is at the bottom.

If anything, Hobbs is a helluva lot closer to Bodden than he was to Wilhite. (and no, I'm not comparing the 2 in overall talent)

2009 Bodden--90 attempts 45 completions
2008 Hobbs---78 attempts 45 completions

Plus, as others have pointed out, Hobbs was in the base lined up against #1's and #2's--while Wilhite was often in sub nickle/dime lined up against #2-#4's.

How about in the 06 AFCCG when Hobbs was green still, yet lined up on Reggie Wayne and batted away multiple balls in perfect coverage? (He obviously wasn't perfect the whole game, yet still held his own) There's absolutely no way that Wilhite can do that--yesterday, today, or tomorrow.

Wow, you must really like Ellis Hobbs, First, I agree that I think Hobbs is better than Wilhite, but the margin isn't great, Wilhite has only played two years so it's still reasonable to see improvement in 2010.

Reread your post, it's funny, like Hobbs is some great player. Last year he went to team with 2 good corners and got zero starts.