What would you offer Miami for Jason Taylor?

[mike100915]

Mike, please, for God's sake, step away from the keyboard....

What the heck are you talking about? I am right on this. Yes, the 7th pick in the draft is an awful lot, but this is for Jason Taylor, and he can dramactically change the Patriots D. This team had no pass rush down the strech. Jason Taylor is what they need. I hate trading draft picks, but in this situation I'd do it.

 

[Deus Irae]

No, this is totally wrong and a fallacy. Agian, Vrable and/or Thomas inside with Taylor outside.

Taylor would be just as situational as Brady.

Taylor is not going to beat out Colvin, Vrabel or Thomas for the OLB job when he would have to learn the position in the first place. It's not going to happen. Furthermore, unless BB became an idiot overnight, he knows that Thomas and Vrabel were both clearly much better players at OLB than ILB, and that's where he'll look to play them.

 

[Deus Irae]

What the heck are you talking about? I am right on this. Yes, the 7th pick in the draft is an awful lot, but this is for Jason Taylor, and he can dramactically change the Patriots D. This team had no pass rush down the strech. Jason Taylor is what they need. I hate trading draft picks, but in this situation I'd do it.

The pass rush lessened when Colvin got hurt. With Colvin back, the pass rush will improve. You don't trade a top 10 pick for an aged Jason Taylor.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If you were to trade for him at AGE 34 he comes with two years remaining on his 2004 contract extension that would result in $7.5M+ and $8M+ cap hits respectively for the NEP. Then he is a 36 year old FA...unless you tear up that deal and re-sign him to a one year incentivized deal like Moss (after which he would be a FA) or a three year deal to spread the hit into 2010 via double digit signing bonus. While he might be very productive here short term, that is not a value signing unless you trade down in the first and acquire additional picks and can use a later pick or picks to acquire that player who could be gone in 1 or 2 years. And that player has to be willing to accommodate your existing salary structure. He would be the second or third highest cap hit on our 2008 and 2009 cap as is.

If Miami had decided to either cut him or make him available (kinda like a Ray Borque courtesy) it would be a no brainer. But apparently they aren't going to. Not sure if what he is doing this off season isn't intended to nudge them in that direction, but they apparently haven't reached any accommodation to date.

You can't offer a team something for a player they are not making available because until you talk to the player you have no basis for knowing what if anything he would agree to do to accommodate you. And you can't mortgage the future to pay for the present. Competitive teams seldom have a shot at top 10 draft picks either to select with or maneuver with. WE haven't had one since 2000. We only went after Randy when the draft compensation had dropped to a day 2 pick and he articulated his willingness to re-do his deal. And that was a good thing since we didn't win it all with him and he is now a FA.

Taylor obviously doesn't come with the baggage that facilitated a deal and a restructure for Randy that represented value. But he is also already a couple of years older than Randy. He would have to create some baggage (speak out) if he wants out of Miami, and I haven't seen any indication yet that he intends to.

 

[Rob0729]

Why would Parcells never send him here? What good is he going to do in Miami? Maybe Parcells thinks he can do his usual "Tuna-Special" makeover and get that team to 500 next year but that's strictly for season ticket sales. Long term, that team would be better off with a draft choice even from the Pats. It's not like Miami is going to contend for the division championship any time soon.

Because teams even as bad as the Dolphins can turn around their woes and become a legitimate contender in 1-2 years. Belichick won a Super Bowl in two years while turning over a large portion of Pete Carroll's/Bobby Grier's roster. Sean Payton was able to get the Saints from 3-13 the year before he came on board to 10-6 and into the NFC Championship game his first year with the Saints. Teams who are smart with a little luck can turn from crappy team to legitimate playoff contender overnight.

Parcells has already freed up a lot of cap space. They are estimated $31 million under the cap. They do not need to get rid of Taylor from a cap standpoint since it is unlikely they will use all the cap space they have now. Taylor is a veteran leader who "gets it" for a team that is going to have a lot of young players on it.

If Parcells can turn this team around in one to two years, Taylor could help him a lot and would definitely hurt his chances to make the playoffs if he is on the Patriots.

People who ask why Parcells would care where Taylor goes to the Pats don't get that it isn't crazy to expect the Dolphins to be fighting for a Wild Card spot this year or next year. If the Dolphins went 9-7 and made the Wild Card in 2008, I would be surprised but definitely not shocked. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Dolphins were a 10 plus win team in 2009.

 

[Deus Irae]

What is so hard to understand that if the Pats acquired Taylor, he wouldn't have to beat out Colvin, Vrabel, or Thomas??? Colvin could be cut or restructured. No guarantee on him. Vrabel and/or Thomas move inside.

How could you not be happy with the possibility of Colvin/Taylor at old, and Vrabel/Thomas at ilb??? It is perfectly plausible and downright dangerous.

The scenario options are endless. Cut Colvin, and replace him with Taylor. Keep Vrabel outside, and put Thomas inside. Draft or sign another ilb.

It really isn't that tough. Vrabel and Thomas are not permanent position players as you keep suggesting.

Neither Vrabel nor Thomas is very good (edit: let's say "at their best" to avoid an argument over 'very good) at ILB, as we saw last season, and Vrabel has made it clear that a) he doesn't want to play inside and b) he can't hold up to the punishment inside. Just because you toss out a 'dream' scenario you've put together without thinking through, you think the world will always agree? Do you seriously expect BB to weaken 3 positions if he can avoid it? He brought Zach Thomas in for a reason, and it's not because he can't wait to put Vrabel and Thomas in as ILBs.

 

[Rob0729]

There going to be paying big time cash to whom ever they take with the 7th pick. Probably the same amount they'd pay to Taylor. The objective for 08 is to win the Super Bowl, and Taylor enhances their changes expediately. They'd get a good player at number 7, but this isn't the deepest draft. So what you want to let Asante walk in free agency and draft his replacement at number 7, and pay him pro bowl money. No, get Jason Taylor, resign Moss and Samuel, and your stacked for next year. Let's worry about the future next draft.

I disagree about the objective. The objective is to win the Super Bowl every year until the end of time, not just in the current year. The Pats have been to 4 Super Bowls over the last 7 years because they are always thinking ahead. They are not going to sacrifice wins down the road for wins now.

Just because you trade for Taylor doesn't mean you can resign Moss and Samuel. I also don't agree that you sign Samuel or Moss at all cost either. At some point, their asking price may be too much.

As for using the #7 pick on Taylor, even in a weak draft a top 10 pick should give you a Pro Bowl caliber player as long as you draft well. A guy like Gholston if available could be a top pass rushing OLB for the next 10 years rather than Taylor being it for maybe a year.

Sorry, Belichick and Pioli haven't gotten to where they were for overpaying to acquire players close to the end of their career. Most of the high profile trades they have made have been value trades where the Pats get the better end of the deal like a second rounder for Corey Dillon and fourth rounder for Ted Washington or Randy Moss.

 

[Rob0729]

What the heck are you talking about? I am right on this. Yes, the 7th pick in the draft is an awful lot, but this is for Jason Taylor, and he can dramactically change the Patriots D. This team had no pass rush down the strech. Jason Taylor is what they need. I hate trading draft picks, but in this situation I'd do it.

And the Pats had a great pass rush before Colvin went down. Even without a great pass rush down the stretch, the Pats finished second in the league in sacks with 47 (5 less than the Giants who were first). Mike Vrabel had more sacks than any Patriot in 20 years.

Sorry, but the #7 overall pick gets you a Jason Taylor at 24, not 34 (which is how old he will be at the start of the season). If we are going to trade that #7 pick for a pass rushing OLB, then at least trade it for Terrell Suggs. Even then, I would never do it eventhough Suggs was a monster at OLB in the 3-4 and 7-8 years younger than Taylor. Better yet, sign Calvin Pace for no draft pick compensation.

 

[mike100915]

You are right that Taylor would be a great addition to this team. If we gave up the #7 (which is ludicrous) how would we fix our cb needs, youth at ilb, and overall depth? The #7 can be traded for huge rewards or used for a future premium cb over the next six years. Taylor for #7 will never happen and it would be a waste. Can you also explain how we can resign Moss, Taylor, a few CBs, other Lbs, and out draft picks? hmmmm nope. fantasy football.

Ok, easy Jason Taylor is cheaper then what you would pay the 7th pick in the draft. Randy Moss, is easily resigned from the money they free up from Stallworth and Kelly Washington. They won't need to add anymore LB's since I presume Bruschi and maybe Seau will be back, cause they haven't said otherwise. They can sign a few cheap corneracks as they do every year. They still have a 2nd round and 2 third round picks to choose from for secondary help. And maybe by cutting Colvin you can use that money and resign Asante Samuler. Is that good enough for you?

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

if you draft correctly a top 10 pick should definitely get you an eventual start for 5 years if not more

 

[IcyPatriot]

I would give no more than a 6th round pick ... we have a good team. We do not need Taylor ... we sure could use him but we do not need him.

 

[Patsmaniac]

Heard interesting theory on PTI as to why JT may eventually be cut. He is doing dancing with the stars and if he does well the production will run well into the offseason and some mini practices, etc. They speculate that Bill P will get pissed and look to set an example and may just cut him lose. Not sure if it will happen. They said Taylor may be doing the show as a way to lose favor and get out of Miami.....

Was interesting to hear it at least.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ok, easy Jason Taylor is cheaper then what you would pay the 7th pick in the draft. Randy Moss, is easily resigned from the money they free up from Stallworth and Kelly Washington. They won't need to add anymore LB's since I presume Bruschi and maybe Seau will be back, cause they haven't said otherwise. They can sign a few cheap corneracks as they do every year. They still have a 2nd round and 2 third round picks to choose from for secondary help. And maybe by cutting Colvin you can use that money and resign Asante Samuler. Is that good enough for you?

Jason Taylor's base salary this season is reportedly north of $7 million. The number 7 pick last season was Adrian Peterson. Peterson signed a 6 year $40.5 million dollar contract which includes escalators. Could you kindly explain to us how this year's #7 draft pick will count for more than $7+ million against the cap this season?

 

[mike100915]

That would be great! I think if he was an FA his first choice would be to play here. I think it's unlikely Parcells would cut him. I think he could easily deal him, and I'm not too sure about the cap hit they would take it they cut him.

 

[TheRazor]

I say we dont even have to give up the 1st rounder and still find a way to sign him, Im gonna go on a feeling and say J. Taylor will be in a Patriots uniform next year, possibly playing with fellow teamate Z.Thomas.....


Imagine the possibilities, the endless fresh legs, and depth at LB, cause thats where Taylor would go, OLB who slides down on the line like Vrabel, and Rosie do.... imagine being able to roate the following players to OLB

OLB: J.Taylor - M.Vrabel - Rosie C. - A.Thomas

MLB: Teddy- Junior - Zach


Imagine that,....

 

[mike100915]

Jason Taylor's base salary this season is reportedly north of $7 million. The number 7 pick last season was Adrian Peterson. Peterson signed a 6 year $40.5 million dollar contract which includes escalators. Could you kindly explain to us how this year's #7 draft pick will count for more than $7+ million against the cap this season?

What you forgot too mention is the 17 million dollars in bonuses for Adrian Petersen. Who knows how true the numbers are for Taylor's contract. Maybe they could rework his deal as well.

 

[Deus Irae]

What you forgot too mention is the 17 million dollars in bonuses for Adrian Petersen. Who knows how true the numbers are for Taylor's contract. Maybe they could rework his deal as well.

I believe that Peterson's 2007 salary cap hit was just over $2 million. Taylor will be receiving over $7 million in base salary. Again, how is this season's #7 pick going to end up with a higher cap number than Taylor?

 

[mike100915]

Are you dumb? Petersen's contract is 40.5 over 6 yrs. Which is an average of 6.75 million a year. Also with that he had 17 million in bonus money coming to him as well. With Taylor we don't know how his contract breaks out. Also, with Taylor you can re work his deal. The player coming in at number 7 is going to want more then Petersen got last year. And that contract is basically guarnetted for 5 yrs.

 

[JackBauer]

Ok, easy Jason Taylor is cheaper then what you would pay the 7th pick in the draft. Randy Moss, is easily resigned from the money they free up from Stallworth and Kelly Washington. They won't need to add anymore LB's since I presume Bruschi and maybe Seau will be back, cause they haven't said otherwise. They can sign a few cheap corneracks as they do every year. They still have a 2nd round and 2 third round picks to choose from for secondary help. And maybe by cutting Colvin you can use that money and resign Asante Samuler. Is that good enough for you?

So...

You want to trade the 7th (!) overall pick in the draft for an old-ass player on the downside of his career.

You then want to rely on the two old-ass, slow linebackers when we desparately need more speed on defense.

Finally, you want to cut our best pass-rusher and best OLB.

That's all kinds of crazy.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Let me use common sense here, and maybe it'll help you.

New England plays a 3-4 base.

Taylor would have to beat out the following DL:
Seymour
Warren
Wilfork

Now, this means that Taylor won't be a starting DL for the Patriots.

Taylor would have to beat out the following OLBs:
Colvin
Thomas
Vrabel

Now, this means that Taylor won't be a starting OLB for the Patriots.

In other words, you want the Patriots to give away the #7 pick in the draft for a situational pass rusher who'll be around for 1-3 years.

Agreed. This has to be the stupidest trade that I have ever heard proposed on this forum.