What Crimes Should The League Punish By Lifetime Suspension?

[Ring 6]

I thought Ian recently decided that posting such as
You're an ass
No I'm not an ass
Yes you are an ass
No I'm not an ass
Yes you are an ass................

Was no longer acceptable around here.
Why no one wants to moderate deus irae and his megalomaniac rantings is mind boggling to me

 

[BTTA]

I get very nervous about employers deciding to further "punish" someone beyond what we as a community, through laws and the justice system, have already decided. So I tend to be pretty conservative on this question, and lean toward a belief that employment contracts are simply the trading of money for the completion of certain work, and should be influenced as little as possible by what happens outside of that relationship.

Secondarily, the NFL isn't an employer of players, it is a unique collective that has, over time, acquired an odd and disturbing set of powers and influence over the employees of its members (the teams). The whole thing is messed up, and the recent behavior of the Commissioner is just a symptom of that. If a player does something away from the work site that damages the team's ability to satisfy its customers, then perhaps that team should have redress about it. But not the weird collective that is the NFL.

The entire structure of the labor agreement, where the NFL bargains on behalf of 32 individual corporations, an act only saved from federal prosecution through a wink wink arrangement with the very lawmakers who are supposed to protect us from this type of thing, makes me a little crazy.

 

[mgteich]

The league isn't punishing behavior it is protecting it's image.
The damage to the leagues image does not have to be consistent with the severity of the crime's punishment.
I think people are getting this way wrong by thinking the league is engaging in secondary criminal consequence.
The answer to the question frankly depends upon the public view of the act and person committing it. The NFL is not trying to augment or replace the criminal justice system they are protecting the image of the league and therefore it's bottom line.
I think it's silly to say the teams can do what they want and the league should do nothing because the league is acting on behalf of the teams and making decisions based upon what is best for all teams on issues that affect all teams.

So, instead of the punishment being based on the act, you are suggesting that the punishment by the league should be based on the "public view of the act and the person committing it"? I understand that position. However, IMHO, this is probably the least defensible position posted in this thread.

Perhaps you are correct and punishment should based on a straw poll of public option, with the punishment changing when public opinion changes. Personally, I'm glad that there is a CBA that protects the players from such policies.

 

[Joker]

well then,by the back and forth from all of you obviously educated NFL fans it should be quite clear...in fact STARK, the if this league is going to0 insist on a Solomonic, all powerful commissioner that THAT person, at LEAST, holds a degree in law ...instead of a useless C average diploma for "business" from a rich kid stashaway college in Pennsylvania.

What we have at present is nothing more than a brown nosing NFL gopher gone Peter Principle nightmare running amok in a minefield of legal issues. Totally unacceptable from ANY perspective.

 

[DarrylS]

The commish in his infinite wisdom has drawn too much attention to the behavior of NFL players... often I think that if I was 22 years old and was given millions I might a commit a few faux pas.. probably not of the violent kind, but more of the substance abuse stuff..

Goodell has created the illusion, because of his need for attention, that somehow NFL players are a lawless group of young'uns... in reality their crime rate is below the norm.. because of his actions he cannot get from behind the 8 ball.. the whole Ray Rice "loss of video" in the NFL offices was a farce...

His inactions and ineptitude has made the situation to be much bigger than it need be..

 

[Ring 6]

So, instead of the punishment being based on the act, you are suggesting that the punishment by the league should be based on the "public view of the act and the person committing it"? I understand that position. However, IMHO, this is probably the least defensible position posted in this thread.

Perhaps you are correct and punishment should based on a straw poll of public option, with the punishment changing when public opinion changes. Personally, I'm glad that there is a CBA that protects the players from such policies.

I'm not sure where you get your second paragraph from being that I never said anything of the sort.
And the reality is that in the CBA the players have in essence agreed to exactly what I said by giving the commissioner full authority to set punishment. I'm not sure where you are getting that the CBA protects them from what they agreed to.
As far as defensible again I'm not sure how you find me stating what is actually happening to be anything but a statement of waft is happening.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Once again, I find it mind boggling that the NFL's Board of Directors, the owners, support this incompetent as the titular head of their league. Where has he personally added value? It was Kraft who was instrumental in settling the CBA when Goodell was at an impasse. He has repeatedly beclowned himself. His rulings on the Saints head hunting were rescinded. And most recently his arbitrary & capricious, PR slaved edicts on player punishment over ruled & rescinded. He created a PR debacle needlessly. It confounds me that owners like Kraft deem him to be doing a good job. I only wish that when I ran divisions that the BOD viewed my performance through such rose colored glasses.

 

[RobAllan]

The commish in his infinite wisdom has drawn too much attention to the behavior of NFL players... often I think that if I was 22 years old and was given millions I might a commit a few faux pas.. probably not of the violent kind, but more of the substance abuse stuff..

Goodell has created the illusion, because of his need for attention, that somehow NFL players are a lawless group of young'uns... in reality their crime rate is below the norm.. because of his actions he cannot get from behind the 8 ball.. the whole Ray Rice "loss of video" in the NFL offices was a farce...

His inactions and ineptitude has made the situation to be much bigger than it need be..

This is a good point. 20 years ago, I didn't expect the NFL to regulate behavior. But they started to and now I think it's reasonable to expect consistency on that point. And I think it's a good thing if they do. (I know this is where some of us disagree.) That said, if they'd never started with all that, it probably wouldn't be such a visible thing now.

 

[RobAllan]

I thought Ian recently decided that posting such as
You're an ass
No I'm not an ass
Yes you are an ass
No I'm not an ass
Yes you are an ass................

Was no longer acceptable around here.
Why no one wants to moderate deus irae and his megalomaniac rantings is mind boggling to me

FWIW I am sorry for my contribution to that cycle. I didn't realize I was in one until I was too far down the rabbit hole. Topic definitely didn't need that interlude.

 

[anditsgood]

This is a good point. 20 years ago, I didn't expect the NFL to regulate behavior. But they started to and now I think it's reasonable to expect consistency on that point. And I think it's a good thing if they do. (I know this is where some of us disagree.) That said, if they'd never started with all that, it probably wouldn't be such a visible thing now.

But that is true in all of society, pre-90s, legal matters were legal matters, you didnt get drug screen for a job, did not have a back ground check nor a credit check etc. Maybe the sensationalism of todays news and media, have changed the way we do things and want greater responsibility

 

[BTTA]

FWIW I am sorry for my contribution to that cycle. I didn't realize I was in one until I was too far down the rabbit hole. Topic definitely didn't need that interlude.

Everyone who participated in this should be fined and suspended, not by the actual owner of this message board, but by the National Umbrella of Message Boards, a non-profit organization that controls behavior on message boards everywhere, for the purpose of maintaining their positive image.

 

[mgteich]

I'm not sure where you get your second paragraph from being that I never said anything of the sort.
And the reality is that in the CBA the players have in essence agreed to exactly what I said by giving the commissioner full authority to set punishment. I'm not sure where you are getting that the CBA protects them from what they agreed to.
As far as defensible again I'm not sure how you find me stating what is actually happening to be anything but a statement of waft is happening.

You indicated that the key to how the commish should act is public opinion and image. I likened this to making decisions based on a straw poll of public opinion.

The answer to the question frankly depends upon the public view of the act and person committing it. The NFL is not trying to augment or replace the criminal justice system they are protecting the image of the league and therefore it's bottom line.

I disagree with your apparent view that the commish has the unfettered right to set whatever punishment he wants, with no limits at all being placed upon him by the CBA (full authority you say). There is a reason that almost every punishment is appealed and that sometimes the appeal succeeds. I clearly don't understand your position. Rice can be signed precisely because there are protections for players in the CBA. Obviously, more are needed.

 

[mayoclinic]

Being a Raven, Steeler, Colt, Bronco, Jet or Dolphin (being on the Buffalo Bills is punishment enough, and doesn't require additional league punishment).

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

having a big forehead?

 

[wizwor]

Butt fumbles. Leave everything else to the courts.

 

[Captain Cliche]

...diving at the nose tackle's knees during the end of game kneeldown.

 

[RxJock1120]

Being a fan of Jets or Manning (both of them)...

 

[Ring 6]

You indicated that the key to how the commish should act is public opinion and image. I likened this to making decisions based on a straw poll of public opinion.

The answer to the question frankly depends upon the public view of the act and person committing it. The NFL is not trying to augment or replace the criminal justice system they are protecting the image of the league and therefore it's bottom line.

I disagree with your apparent view that the commish has the unfettered right to set whatever punishment he wants, with no limits at all being placed upon him by the CBA (full authority you say). There is a reason that almost every punishment is appealed and that sometimes the appeal succeeds. I clearly don't understand your position. Rice can be signed precisely because there are protections for players in the CBA. Obviously, more are needed.

What are you talking about?
You asked about punishment for crimes and I answers that the league isn't punishing a crime it is acting to protect it's image.
If you don't understand the league is acting based upon how their image is affected and that the image is that of people I'm not sure why you responded to my post in the first place because you do not understand what I am saying. Please show me where I said anythjng about a straw poll. You made that up.
Sadat as the last part please show me where goodell does not have unilateral power to determine punishment in the CBA. If I'm not mistaken the CBA also says goddell is the person. You appeal the dd idiom to.
This is not about legal consequences it about a morals clause which the players agreed to.
Apparently you feel that stating a fact means you like the fact and ignoring it's existence means you disagree with it.

 

[1960Pats]

What are you talking about?
You asked about punishment for crimes and I answers that the league isn't punishing a crime it is acting to protect it's image.
If you don't understand the league is acting based upon how their image is affected and that the image is that of people I'm not sure why you responded to my post in the first place because you do not understand what I am saying. Please show me where I said anythjng about a straw poll. You made that up.
Sadat as the last part please show me where goodell does not have unilateral power to determine punishment in the CBA. If I'm not mistaken the CBA also says goddell is the person. You appeal the dd idiom to.
This is not about legal consequences it about a morals clause which the players agreed to.
Apparently you feel that stating a fact means you like the fact and ignoring it's existence means you disagree with it.

Goody the Jet asked the NFLPA for, and received, the authority to punish players. Now that he has that authority, he's fumbling and bumbling his way through it.

I think Goody's actions re Ray Rice show that the image is more important. He didn't care until the video came out.

The NFL players can also thank their own leadership from the last contract negotiations for the mess. They got taken.

 

[Ring 6]

Goody the Jet asked the NFLPA for, and received, the authority to punish players. Now that he has that authority, he's fumbling and bumbling his way through it.

I think Goody's actions re Ray Rice show that the image is more important. He didn't care until the video came out.

The NFL players can also thank their own leadership from the last contract negotiations for the mess. They got taken.

Well that is my entire point.
The morals clause and the enforcement of suspensions has nothing to do with meting out punishment for a crime. It has to do with the league protecting/enhancing/salvaging its image by punishing behavior it feels is against what the league 'stands for'.
I do not understand the concept of treating it like a legal proceeding, and basing the punishment on the heinousness (I'm sure I just made that word up) of the offense. The punishment is used to tell the public how distasteful they find the action.
Right, wrong, or indifferent, that is the system that was collectively bargained, and the reasons why the league doles out punishments.