We Have At Least $11M Cap Money Available!!!

[Miguel]

Correct me if I'm worng, but I tought only the top 53 counted twords the cap.

It is Top 51 from the start of the League Year (august 4th to the 1st day of the regular season).

 

[Ghost of Ben Dreith]

If the cardinals stink it up, i can see Fitzgerald wanting to leave even if they tried to franchise him.I would like to see the pats make a run at him next year.

Fitz is not going anywhere with the signing of Kolb. Dream all you want but this train has left the station......why do you think the Cards were so willing to overpay (a little bit) for Kolb?

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Not that I agree with the move, but the answer to your question is that we wouldn't be paying him what the Eagles paid him, we'd be paying the remaining salaries and zero signing bonus. That's a ton less than what that original contract was.

crap, you're right. I forgot that the iggles are responsible for the bonus. I still dont want him though

 

[jBru]

Is there a veteran's minimum exemption in the new CBA like there was in the old CBA? (players earning roughly the veterans minimum with four or more credited seasons only count as if they are earning the minimum for veterans with two credited seasons).

If so, where is it?

https://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/General/2011_Final_CBA.pdf


I like the way teams can now carry over unused salary cap room without having to do any restructuring in the new CBA.

 

[Miguel]

Is there a veteran's minimum exemption in the new CBA like there was in the old CBA? (players earning roughly the veterans minimum with four or more credited seasons only count as if they are earning the minimum for veterans with two credited seasons).

If so, where is it?

https://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/General/2011_Final_CBA.pdf

It is in Article 27.

 

[jBru]

Thank You!!

 

[The Scrizz]

Miguel has updated his pages to account for all the now known contracts. He has us at $13.5M under but he is including the $3M credit. He is also not including any of Haynesworth's incentives, which if they are LTBE will count against the cap. So we are $10.5M not including thos and not including the $3M credit if we have not chosen to use it. I happen to disagree with Miguel's characterization of it being part of the Patriots true cap for the reason that teams don't automatically get that credit unless they choose request in writing to the league to utilize it on 3 specific players, and it has to be paid back in later caps. Given we are currently well under I don't see at this juncture why we would.

I don't see why we wouldn't, considering that the team can push that money forward to next year if needed and it doesn't have to be paid back for a few seasons and they can spread it out over multiple seasons for pay-back purposes. It's 3 million in free flexibility. I'm guessing the Pats choose to use it.

Any way you look at it we've signed a bunch of players, and all of our draft picks, made a few trades, and are at about the same cap number that we started at the 1st day of the league year. That is some impressive sh*t right there.

 

[DaBruinz]

You got me a little confused too.

Your starting point is 11.5 (which includes 10.3 for Mankins that will likely get smaller which is a mute point for this math)

11.5 - 1.375 = 10.125 then you Add in .533 because Wendell is knocked off the top 51 which = 10.658 yet somehow you drop to 7.8 with no explanation?

I am not saying your wrong just do see where you get there?

I eliminated the 3 million Veteran Credit as well because I was following Mo's belief that the Pats hadn't used it yet..

 

[DaBruinz]

I'd guess we'd keep a 5M cushion minimum for in-season injuries.

Awhile back I did some research to address the claims of a Colts fan who said that in part they were limited by being a small market team and paying at the low end of the salary spectrum, even though the range of salaries in the NFL is rather small due to the hard cap.

I thought I'd share those results here, gleaned from the USA Today site which has historical salary figures from 2000-2009 (nothing for the uncapped year).

2009-10 NFL Salaries by Team - USATODAY.com


Not surprisingly, there is a poor correlation of salary spent with success.

2009 Patriots were 25th in payroll. Colts were 19th in payroll. Saints (4th) won.
2008 Patriots were 30th in payroll. Colts were 29th in payroll. Steelers (6th) won.
2007 Patriots were 2nd in payroll. Colts were 12th in payroll. Giants (32nd) won.
2006 Patriots were 12th in payroll. Colts were 1st in payroll & won
2005 Patriots were 7th in payroll. Colts were 23rd in payroll. Steelers (10th) won.
2004 Patriots were 24th in payroll and won. Colts were 8th in payroll.
2003 Patriots (9th in payroll) won. Colts were 23rd in payroll.
2002 Patriots were 31st in payroll. Colts were 15th in payroll. Tampa Bay (16th) won.
2001 Patriots (23rd in payroll) won. Colts were 24th in payroll.
2000 Patriots were 25th in payroll. Colts were 17th in payroll. Ravens won (13th).

So for a ten year period (the total of the USA Today database)
The Patriots were on average #19 in the NFL in payroll
The Colts were on average #17 in the NFL in payroll
The NFL champion was on average #14 in the NFL in payroll

bottom line: I seem some random fluctuations, two fairly frugal teams, not really indicating any inability of Indy to pay salaries necessary to contend.

Look at the top salaried teams though. More often than not, they did not even make the playoffs.

Also, paying high salaries in the NFL doesn't mean you have better players. It means you have made some awful mistakes in giving out some lousy contracts, then often had to scramble to cover up holes left over by overpaying other guys as well, and even pull some cap shenanigans to accomplish it, which hurts the team in the long run.

Consistently well-run teams seem to thrive in the 10-20 zone of salaries paid out.

The problem with the whole "payroll" argument as presented by USA Today is that it IGNORES bonus money paid.

 

[DaBruinz]

Miguel has updated his pages to account for all the now known contracts. He has us at $13.5M under but he is including the $3M credit. He is also not including any of Haynesworth's incentives, which if they are LTBE will count against the cap. So we are $10.5M not including thos and not including the $3M credit if we have not chosen to use it. I happen to disagree with Miguel's characterization of it being part of the Patriots true cap for the reason that teams don't automatically get that credit unless they choose request in writing to the league to utilize it on 3 specific players, and it has to be paid back in later caps. Given we are currently well under I don't see at this juncture why we would.

As a side note. Miguel does not have Andre Carter, Sammy Morris, Chris Morris, or Kevin Faulk on the page.

Andre Carter's deal (Per ESPNBoston)
New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

1 year deal with a 1.75 mil salary. A 500K signing bonus.

 

[SirApropos]

As a side note. Miguel does not have Andre Carter, Sammy Morris, Chris Morris, or Kevin Faulk on the page.

Sammy and Faulk are likely to be Vet Minimum deals and thus wouldn't count in the top 51. In the spreadsheet I created based off of Miquel's page I have them at 58 and 59 at $465,580 each. Until we get actual numbers that's a good guess.

 

[Miguel]

As a side note. Miguel does not have Andre Carter, Sammy Morris, Chris Morris, or Kevin Faulk on the page.

Andre Carter's deal (Per ESPNBoston)
New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

1 year deal with a 1.75 mil salary. A 500K signing bonus.

While I did not list them, I did include them in my underlying workbook so my cap number estimate will not change.

 

[DaBruinz]

While I did not list them, I did include them in my underlying workbook so my cap number estimate will not change.

Do you mean that the top section with your estimate is what is correct and that you just haven't updated the Spreadsheet portion of the page?

 

[patsfan13]

Fitz is not going anywhere with the signing of Kolb. Dream all you want but this train has left the station......why do you think the Cards were so willing to overpay (a little bit) for Kolb?

No guarantee that Kolb would be better than Hoyer.

If you were Fitz would you rather have K Kolb or TFB as your QB?

Who gives you a better shot at a ring. If D Branch isn't being resigned make a run at Fitz.

 

[DaBruinz]

No guarantee that Kolb would be better than Hoyer.

If you were Fitz would you rather have K Kolb or TFB as your QB?

Who gives you a better shot at a ring. If D Branch isn't being resigned make a run at Fitz.

You have D. Branch and Wes Welker both as UFA next season. However, you have committed to Ochocinco and you still have at a minimum, Price. I could definitely see the Pats going out and signing Fitzgerald. They'll have the money to do so and Fitz can't be franchised.

 

[The Scrizz]

You have D. Branch and Wes Welker both as UFA next season. However, you have committed to Ochocinco and you still have at a minimum, Price. I could definitely see the Pats going out and signing Fitzgerald. They'll have the money to do so and Fitz can't be franchised.

Good reason to push cap space to next year!!!

 

[Miguel]

Do you mean that the top section with your estimate is what is correct and that you just haven't updated the Spreadsheet portion of the page?

Yes, that is what I meant.