Waters' Locker Cleaned Out (Update: Reports Nameplate Taken Down)

[PP2]

I know many people who relocate their families because of job opportunities and they dont make a fraction of what NFL players do. I think enough money would make it right with Water but at a certain point it wouldnt make sense for the team.

I might be wrong but I don't think he's going to uproot his family and yank his kids out of school for a job that is over in 5 months.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I might be wrong but I don't think he's going to uproot his family and yank his kids out of school for a job that is over in 5 months.

Would his kids be better off with their father not home for 5 months? Maybe it's just me but I'd bring my family with me if I was going to be making millions over the next 5-6 months.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Would his kids be better off with their father not home for 5 months? Maybe it's just me but I'd bring my family with me if I was going to be making millions over the next 5-6 months.

More important for kids to be in a familiar environment surrounded by friends than off to the unfamiliar NorthEast disconnected from friends and extended family just to see Dad a few hours a day when he's not traveling to an away game city.

 

[Rob0729]

Here's Mike Reiss' take on the situation:

1. The Patriots can be cold-blooded with some of their personnel and financial decisions as long as they are convinced it's in the best interest of the team, but I don't put what has unfolded with Brian Waters in that category. If anything, I thought the team extended itself more than the norm. My biggest takeaway is that the club was willing to let Waters dictate the terms of when he reported with an excused absence (when have they ever done that?) and was willing to restructure his salary so he could earn more than his $1.4 million, but with protection for the team on a game-by-game basis. If that isn't good enough, for whatever the reason (personal or financial), the feeling is that it's time for both parties to move on while protecting their interests.

Quick-hit thoughts around NFL, Pats - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[Ring 6]

Not much. It's just Tom's spin based on his sources. Could be like that time he had Brady's career perilously close to over.

Reiss is reporting similarly, and of course there is the idea of what makes sense and what is ridiculous.
It's pretty clear that Howe had it wrong.
However, if we are going with the idea that someone who was once wrong therefore can never be right again, no source or poster is valid.

 

[Rob0729]

Reiss is reporting similarly, and of course there is the idea of what makes sense and what is ridiculous.
It's pretty clear that Howe had it wrong.
However, if we are going with the idea that someone who was once wrong therefore can never be right again, no source or poster is valid.

Yeah, Curran, Bedard, SMY, and Reiss all contradict Howe's report. My guess is Howe only got part of the information. His source told him that the Pats and Waters negotiated a new deal where he would drop his base salary and get back the rest with incentives, but his source probably didn't mention that Waters would make more money (based on Curran's and Reiss' reports, it sounds like significantly more) if the incentives were met and the incentives seemed as simple as making the 46 man game day roster each game.

The problem with this story is everyone including the guys on the radio are going with the reports they want to believe, not all the reports.

 

[upstater1]

More important for kids to be in a familiar environment surrounded by friends than off to the unfamiliar NorthEast disconnected from friends and extended family just to see Dad a few hours a day when he's not traveling to an away game city.

I've taken my kids with me during the school year before, and it was perfectly fine. We were away for 6 months while I was on another job. We were even in a foreign country. They did great. We enrolled them in an English lang. school, they were just fine.

This is no big deal, IMO. It's much more problematic to move around constantly and to break the routine every 2 years or so, but one could even argue it's a good thing for kids to learn to adapt to these things.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Yeah, Curran, Bedard, SMY, and Reiss all contradict Howe's report. My guess is Howe only got part of the information. His source told him that the Pats and Waters negotiated a new deal where he would drop his base salary and get back the rest with incentives, but his source probably didn't mention that Waters would make more money (based on Curran's and Reiss' reports, it sounds like significantly more) if the incentives were met and the incentives seemed as simple as making the 46 man game day roster each game.

The problem with this story is everyone including the guys on the radio are going with the reports they want to believe, not all the reports.

Only problem is he was guaranteed to make $1.4M this yesterday at 4PM and had $750K in incentives that are LTBE as a result of his making all of his last season. See, he was going to make $2.25M this season before they ever spoke with $750K of it tied to participation. I think some of the mediots are oblivious to that fact. I don't doubt they asked him to take a $500K base paycut that would "really" not be considered a cut because he would have the money incentivized ergo be able to earn it back. That's still a paycut. Same kind Ocho took. Teams often incentivize cuts to base pay just like when Brady takes a base pay cut it's not really a cut - in those restructures the player gets the cut $$ up front in the form of amortizable signing bonus. The difference between the two restructures is one is a cut out of the gate and the other absolutely isn't.

As Jason pointed out earlier, this wasn't about the cap. Nothing they did was going to change it. (Which is where Howe missed the boat big time because he assumed it would lower it by a million via qualifying for vet min. cap treatment.) It was about cash. And protecting it suddenly (although the Gallery signing kind of flies in the face of that strategy). And/or doing something to justify/rationalize the fact that they were always going to let him skip most of the off season - something Bedard says the Bill was on board with since they signed the deal. No other reasons to **** around with a guy who started 16 games last season and was named to the pro bowl and was scheduled to return for another season at $1.4M + $750K in LTBE incentives.

Only interesting item in Mike's notes was the representation, Athletes First. Dunn. Who has more players on this team than any other agency (now that most of the Rosenhaus clients not named Gronk are gone).

 

[Ring 6]

Only problem is he was guaranteed to make $1.4M this yesterday at 4PM and had $750K in incentives that are LTBE as a result of his making all of his last season. See, he was going to make $2.25M this season before they ever spoke with $750K of it tied to participation. I think some of the mediots are oblivious to that fact. I don't doubt they asked him to take a $500K base paycut that would "really" not be considered a cut because he would have the money incentivized ergo be able to earn it back. That's still a paycut. Same kind Ocho took. Teams often incentivize cuts to base pay just like when Brady takes a base pay cut it's not really a cut - in those restructures the player gets the cut $$ up front in the form of amortizable signing bonus. The difference between the two restructures is one is a cut out of the gate and the other absolutely isn't.

As Jason pointed out earlier, this wasn't about the cap. Nothing they did was going to change it. (Which is where Howe missed the boat big time because he assumed it would lower it by a million via qualifying for vet min. cap treatment.) It was about cash. And protecting it suddenly (although the Gallery signing kind of flies in the face of that strategy). And/or doing something to justify/rationalize the fact that they were always going to let him skip most of the off season - something Bedard says the Bill was on board with since they signed the deal. No other reasons to **** around with a guy who started 16 games last season and was named to the pro bowl and was scheduled to return for another season at $1.4M + $750K in LTBE incentives.

Only interesting item in Mike's notes was the representation, Athletes First. Dunn. Who has more players on this team than any other agency (now that most of the Rosenhaus clients not named Gronk are gone).

You are drawing conclusions from "facts" that you assume.
The only thing in your post that has any value is that you recognize through the Gallery signing that the team is not going to cheap out to hurt the product on the field. Unfortunately you have decided that is the conclusion you want, so you make assumptions that lead you there.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

More important for kids to be in a familiar environment surrounded by friends than off to the unfamiliar NorthEast disconnected from friends and extended family just to see Dad a few hours a day when he's not traveling to an away game city.

This particular type of employment can also disrupt a family for as little as a month or less if the player gets cut or injured and no more than 6 months - meaning either you remain here to finish one school year in a different curriculum or return to your former home and the kids have to re-assimilate back into the prior curriculum. Clearly none of it is end of the world level decision making, but given the unguaranteed nature of the league more players than not now opt to keep families at home either because they can't afford to maintain two homes or they choose not to in the Not For Long league.

Ty Warren's family never resided here. Neither did Asante's, or Troy Brown's or lots of guys. Tedy's did and still do, but that was a choice/goal he and his wife made/set out of the gate. Most guys and their families still go home once their time here is over. Even the Wilfork and Brady clans will.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You are drawing conclusions from "facts" that you assume.
The only thing in your post that has any value is that you recognize through the Gallery signing that the team is not going to cheap out to hurt the product on the field. Unfortunately you have decided that is the conclusion you want, so you make assumptions that lead you there.

At least I'm relying on facts. But then I guess it's good when you do that in relying on the one fact that he was under contract and simply chose not to show ergo the team cannot be in any way at fault.

 

[Ring 6]

At least I'm relying on facts. But then I guess it's good when you do that in relying on the one fact that he was under contract and simply chose not to show ergo the team cannot be in any way at fault.

First, when you say

I don't doubt they asked him to take a $500K base paycut that would "really" not be considered a cut because he would have the money incentivized ergo be able to earn it back. That's still a paycut.

You have MADE UP what you 'don't doubt' happened and then concluded he was asked to take a paycut.

Secondly, please indicate what I said that led to you deciding what fact I was relying on and what conclusion I drew?

 

[Marqui]

Sounds like the door may not be completely shut on Waters.

Kraft holds out hope for Waters - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[Rob0729]

Only problem is he was guaranteed to make $1.4M this yesterday at 4PM and had $750K in incentives that are LTBE as a result of his making all of his last season. See, he was going to make $2.25M this season before they ever spoke with $750K of it tied to participation. I think some of the mediots are oblivious to that fact. I don't doubt they asked him to take a $500K base paycut that would "really" not be considered a cut because he would have the money incentivized ergo be able to earn it back. That's still a paycut. Same kind Ocho took. Teams often incentivize cuts to base pay just like when Brady takes a base pay cut it's not really a cut - in those restructures the player gets the cut $$ up front in the form of amortizable signing bonus. The difference between the two restructures is one is a cut out of the gate and the other absolutely isn't.

As Jason pointed out earlier, this wasn't about the cap. Nothing they did was going to change it. (Which is where Howe missed the boat big time because he assumed it would lower it by a million via qualifying for vet min. cap treatment.) It was about cash. And protecting it suddenly (although the Gallery signing kind of flies in the face of that strategy). And/or doing something to justify/rationalize the fact that they were always going to let him skip most of the off season - something Bedard says the Bill was on board with since they signed the deal. No other reasons to **** around with a guy who started 16 games last season and was named to the pro bowl and was scheduled to return for another season at $1.4M + $750K in LTBE incentives.

Only interesting item in Mike's notes was the representation, Athletes First. Dunn. Who has more players on this team than any other agency (now that most of the Rosenhaus clients not named Gronk are gone).

You are making a lot of assumptions here. Every reporter on 98.5 from Chris Gasper to Andy Hart said the real story hasn't been reported yet and much of what we already know doesn't make any sense. I seriously doubt the Pats asked Waters to take a pay cut in any form (but I could be wrong).

I pretty it has to be a fact that this isn't the reason Waters hasn't shown up. I think if that was the case, Waters would have just shown up and forced the Pats to pay him his contract or cut him so he could sign on with the guard needy Texans.

There are no real facts in this case though. All we have are a bunch of conflicting reports that state the Pats have offered Waters either a pay cut or a substantial raise. We don't even know if this is truly about money or whether Waters just wants what is coming to him or a huge pay raise. Everyone is making an assumption. Other than Howe though, most of the reporters who have looked into this case feel that that the Pats have tried to bend over backwards to make accommodations for him and even that Waters agreed to the restructuring.