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Waters' Locker Cleaned Out (Update: Reports Nameplate Taken Down)


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Ok, so with better Guard play we wouldn't have had a better chance at winning?

The Pats could have won that game with the same exact line if any one of the following things happened that had nothing to do with the o-line:

  • Asante Samuel held onto an easy INT on the last drive
  • Brandon Meriweather held on to another INT on the same drive
  • Lawrence Tynes didn't catch the most miraculous pass on that drive (his only reception for the season)
  • Rodney Harrison tried to break up the pass rather than trying to intercept the ball on that same play.
  • The refs correctly called in the grasp on that same play.

To blame the o-line and in particular the guard position for the reason the Pats lost that Super Bowl is a little silly. The Pats could have won that Super Bowl with the exact same offensive performance if the defense didn't collapse on that last drive. The offense and the offensive line play played a part in the loss, but it wasn't THE REASON the Pats lost.
 
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Most of the media in this town get nothing from the team themselves so they have to look player/agent friendly in order to have access. Its a simple case of "follow the money".

BB has never cared for these clowns and what they have to spew (can we say oral diarrhea) in their precious talk show. I don't think it has ever an impact on how this team /BB operates.

It is ok for fans like us to hear multiple viewpoints but when we realize that it is full of ..it just tune out and do something productive
 
The Pats could have won that game with the same exact line if any one of the following things happened that had nothing to do with the o-line:

  • Asante Samuel held onto an easy INT on the last drive
  • Brandon Meriweather held on to another INT on the same drive
  • Lawrence Tynes didn't catch the most miraculous pass on that drive (his only reception for the season)
  • Rodney Harrison tried to break up the pass rather than trying to intercept the ball on that same play.
  • The refs correctly called in the grasp on that same play.

To blame the o-line and in particular the guard position for the reason the Pats lost that Super Bowl is a little silly. The Pats could have won that Super Bowl with the exact same offensive performance if the defense didn't collapse on that last drive. The offense and the offensive line play played a part in the loss, but it wasn't THE REASON the Pats lost.


Ah, come on man.... please stop opening the old wounds :(
 
The Pats could have won that game with the same exact line if any one of the following things happened that had nothing to do with the o-line:

  • Asante Samuel held onto an easy INT on the last drive
  • Brandon Meriweather held on to another INT on the same drive
  • Lawrence Tynes didn't catch the most miraculous pass on that drive (his only reception for the season)
  • Rodney Harrison tried to break up the pass rather than trying to intercept the ball on that same play.
  • The refs correctly called in the grasp on that same play.

To blame the o-line and in particular the guard position for the reason the Pats lost that Super Bowl is a little silly. The Pats could have won that Super Bowl with the exact same offensive performance if the defense didn't collapse on that last drive. The offense and the offensive line play played a part in the loss, but it wasn't THE REASON the Pats lost.

Umm, when did I ever say the Guard play was THE reason we lost that game?

The poster I responded to said "I don't think the Pats' Super Bowl chances will be determined by a guard. Let's move on.", and I think that idea is shortsighted and foolish. For starters, interior pressure gets to the QB quicker than edge pressure. Also, TFB is very good at stepping forward in the pocket to avoid the edge rushers, dealing with pressure from the front is far more difficult. There's a reason why a stud Guard like Carl Nicks was paid the money he got.

Finally, a chain is a strong as it's weakest link, our chances of Super Bowl victory are greatest with a very strong O-line, not just strong pieces of an O-line. The less hits that TFB takes the longer his career will be, how much is it worth to increase the quality and length of TFB's career? Is it worth what Waters wants beyond what BB is offering?
 
Gotta luv being a sports reporter these days where everyone reading/viewing has a forum on the net. Write something that can be interpreted by some as supporting the club's position...you're a shill for the Krafts. Write a piece advocating a player's position...you're a Pats org hater.

Reiss answered an interesting question during his Friday chat regarding not being a reporter that breaks news.....His response was....in this new media age, fresh news gets disseminated within minutes and being first has little value....its all about analysis and interpretation
 
[*]Lawrence Tynes didn't catch the most miraculous pass on that drive (his only reception for the season)

I think you mean David Tyree, but I agree with everything that you said for sure.
 
For starters, interior pressure gets to the QB quicker than edge pressure. Also, TFB is very good at stepping forward in the pocket to avoid the edge rushers, dealing with pressure from the front is far more difficult. There's a reason why a stud Guard like Carl Nicks was paid the money he got.

Finally, a chain is a strong as it's weakest link, our chances of Super Bowl victory are greatest with a very strong O-line, not just strong pieces of an O-line. The less hits that TFB takes the longer his career will be, how much is it worth to increase the quality and length of TFB's career? Is it worth what Waters wants beyond what BB is offering?

I'm not sure that I would totally agree with this assessment, but I can see why you are concerned at the same time.

The outside tackles are the ones who make more money in the NFL, but yes, I would agree with you that a strong interior presence is important too. Today's NFL places a higher value on the outside protection though.

I also think that it's worth noting that Tom Curran's article and comments today have shown that multiple sources had said that the team did offer Waters 'substantially more money' this summer and that he turned it down.

I'm not sure why so many are suddenly assuming that Belichick would go out right before the season and purposely make the team weaker by being cheap, to me that makes no sense whatsoever and we have nothing to base that on.

There seems to be a strong hint that Waters does not want to leave Texas, and it may not necessarily be about the money. It certainly isn't 'just' about the money at any rate.
 
You cant seriously be implying there is legitimacy?

No, I wasn't implying anything more than the impetus for that idiotic thread was one of Prentiss McCurran's tweets...
 
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Wait, so what does this mean about all the criticism here based on something that never happened?

Not much. It's just Tom's spin based on his sources. Could be like that time he had Brady's career perilously close to over.
 
I also think that it's worth noting that Tom Curran's article and comments today have shown that multiple sources had said that the team did offer Waters 'substantially more money' this summer and that he turned it down.

There seems to be a strong hint that Waters does not want to leave Texas, and it may not necessarily be about the money. It certainly isn't 'just' about the money at any rate.

Well, SMY and Bedard said something along the lines of Waters wanting to make sure that leaving his family for another season is worth it financially. Well, Waters has made a lot of money in his lifetime. I could very well see "worth it financially" being a lot more to him than it would be to onlookers like us. The Pats have $8.4M in cap room right now. Even half of that would only be a small fraction compared to what he's already earned in his lifetime.
 
No, I wan't implying anything more than the impetus for that idiotic thread was one of Prentiss McCurran's tweets...

I don't know if Curran had tweeted about it or not, but it wasn't due to his information or anything about him.

The following speculative issues were brought up:

--the fact that Welker was reported as being a healthy scratch from practice for 2-3 days beforehand, and in the preseason game vs Tampa Bay

--the fact that there were reports from different sources around the league from profootballtalk.com to the official nfl.com site itself which speculated the possibility that Welker could be the target

--the fact that Jim Irsay's tweet had been reported that day as 'giving up a high pick' and 'getting his checkbook ready' made some speculate about the possibility (this may be where you see twitter involved)

--the fact that the day of July 16th had come and gone a few weeks earlier without a deal and that it surely seems as though Welker will not be here next year

--the comments from Welker himself which sensed a frustration and snarky attitude about the negotiations and how the front office usually does not appreciate that very much

--the fact that Belichick had made big moves before right before the season started on 2 separate occasions with the trade of Seymour and Milloy

--the fact that Belichick seemed to be going to a heavier and more active TE game this season, as there were only 5 of 19 games last year where a 3rd TE was active, and any/no potential that could have on a change of the offense

--the addition of Llyod and the good camp that Edelman was having by all reports and accounts, and any/no potential that could possibly have on Welker this year

--the fact that Welker's trade value would not be any higher than it was right this very second, and how he would just be a year older next year with a good chance of having lessened numbers

--the speculation that the team may have been waiting for a team to have an injury at the WR position sometime in training camp, which would only add to Welker's potential value

There are 10 reasons right there that many people around the football world were thinking, although as I stated in the thread title--some were speculative of course.

You seem to continue to have a personal problem with me, claiming that 'my thread was stupid,' yet it was certainly a hot topic of conversation in many circles at the time. I'm not sure how I could have presented the information any better, titled the thread any better, or NOT taken a stance either way any better.

As I stated many, many times in the thread--I hope that Welker remains a NEP for several yrs to come and retires here.

There were many who did not see the thread 'as stupid,' and who appreciated the discusssion, but don't shoot the messenger. If you want to incorrectly lump me in with those who come up with idiotic threads about WHY we should trade certain key players, that is your mistake, but the thread I started was entirely different and there were only a handful of posters who claimed to have any problem with it.

I simply tried to explore the situation based on many recent occurrances, not to create controversy or piss anyone off. I suppose that I am sorry for the controversial nature of the subject matter, but it was presented entirely differently than any of the ones you were trying to lump it in with, and it wasn't 'stupid' to most of the posters who participated.
 
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I'm not sure that I would totally agree with this assessment, but I can see why you are concerned at the same time.

The outside tackles are the ones who make more money in the NFL, but yes, I would agree with you that a strong interior presence is important too. Today's NFL places a higher value on the outside protection though.

I also think that it's worth noting that Tom Curran's article and comments today have shown that multiple sources had said that the team did offer Waters 'substantially more money' this summer and that he turned it down.

I'm not sure why so many are suddenly assuming that Belichick would go out right before the season and purposely make the team weaker by being cheap, to me that makes no sense whatsoever and we have nothing to base that on.

There seems to be a strong hint that Waters does not want to leave Texas, and it may not necessarily be about the money. It certainly isn't 'just' about the money at any rate.

Would you mind pointing that out to me because I can't find it in his comments or in print.
 
Would you mind pointing that out to me because I can't find it in his comments or in print.

"I also heard rumblings that, at some point in the offseason, Waters was offered much more to return than the $1.4M but he didn't budge."
 
"I also heard rumblings that, at some point in the offseason, Waters was offered much more to return than the $1.4M but he didn't budge."

I meant as in link.

And the tread under discussion that that post tracks back to was the Brady for Barkley thread, not any of the many trade Welker threads...

And FWIW Waters was actually due to make $2.25M this season between salary and LTBE incentives. Of course he would have to start all or most of the 16 games to do so. He earned $1.75M in incentives in addition to his salary in 2011.
 
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I think Ocho Sucko snuck in and stole his schit.
 
this Waters thing has all the earmarks of a "I'm done...thanx but no thanx" decision....speculation has run the gamut 180 degrees.
 
I meant as in link.

And the tread under discussion that that post tracks back to was the Brady for Barkley thread, not any of the many trade Welker threads...

And FWIW Waters was actually due to make $2.25M this season between salary and LTBE incentives. Of course he would have to start all or most of the 16 games to do so. He earned $1.75M in incentives in addition to his salary in 2011.

Sorry, here's the link:

Much undue ado about Brian Waters

It's just more of the other side of yesterday's stories, with a focus on more of a team-friendly state of affairs. While I personally feel as though it makes more sense than yesterday's story, I can understand that the right thing to do is to wait and see what leaks out in the future, before coming to any conclusion.

As for the Barkley/trade Brady thread, I apologize for the confusion as I did not read it and was not aware of the circumstances surrounding it. I assumed that you were still giving me crap about the Welker situation.
 
this Waters thing has all the earmarks of a "I'm done...thanx but no thanx" decision....speculation has run the gamut 180 degrees.

I agree with you, Joker. There isn't much more to talk about as it pertains to the Waters situation....but that won't stop us from doing it anyways ;)
 
I'm not sure that I would totally agree with this assessment, but I can see why you are concerned at the same time.

The outside tackles are the ones who make more money in the NFL, but yes, I would agree with you that a strong interior presence is important too. Today's NFL places a higher value on the outside protection though.

I also think that it's worth noting that Tom Curran's article and comments today have shown that multiple sources had said that the team did offer Waters 'substantially more money' this summer and that he turned it down.

I'm not sure why so many are suddenly assuming that Belichick would go out right before the season and purposely make the team weaker by being cheap, to me that makes no sense whatsoever and we have nothing to base that on.

There seems to be a strong hint that Waters does not want to leave Texas, and it may not necessarily be about the money. It certainly isn't 'just' about the money at any rate.

- If they offered Waters enough money he'd simply bring his family here for the season, I don't know why players don't do that now, I know many people who relocate their families because of job opportunities and they dont make a fraction of what NFL players do. I think enough money would make it right with Water but at a certain point it wouldnt make sense for the team.

- I had heard the wanted to pay Waters the same amount of money but convert the amount beyond the vet minimum to a per game bonus, if they did offer him substantially more money I havent heard about it, I'd be curious about the exact number.

- While the NFL might value the outside tackles more than the interior it doesnt necessarily that's the actual importance on the field. I think plenty of stuff is done in the league because that's what others do, bucking the trend can make a lot of enemies.
 
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