Van Noy, McClellin. Did BB turn it around?

[shmessy]

Why would they fail to hear offers from other teams? It makes more sense that you're overestimating the market. Unfortunately, we don't know either way.

You don't think there was a market in the NFL for the healthy 29 year old Lawyer Milloy or 27 year old James Sanders?

It's all conjecture, but it sure seems sometimes BB just wants a guy gone and doesn't care about getting something in return.

 

[luuked]

Yup. And so is yours.

Hence the name of the website.

" If he really was so highly rated then more teams would have bid for him driving the compensation up."

Aah, there is YOUR conjecture. You are assuming the Pats shopped him to all 31 teams.

Of course they shopped him around. This is not conjecture but just a reasonable assumption. Do you think especially Belichick who loves having draft picks just called the Browns and then called it a day to get out earlier so he can spend some time on his boat ?

They traded away 8 games of someone and got essentially the draft pick they might have gotten a year later more or less guaranteed no matter what happens in FA. Again, we traded away 8 games of Collins.. you generally won't get much for that.

 

[aluminum seats]

I still don't see the harm in keeping him for the remainder of the season...unless of course, he was an imminent threat to the locker room

I'd hardly consider it a trade...we essentially just dumped Collins off to another team

Third round pick is a trade...

 

[50-yard-line]

That being said, I think Van Noy is a keeper and hope they re-sign him. Judging from his Patriots All Access interview last night however, I doubt he'll stay (sounded like New England was a different planet to him and his wife works far away).

I believe Van Noy is signed through next year, for 1.1 million in 2017.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Third round pick is a trade...

Yeah, but the comp pick would've given us either a 3rd or 4th rounder regardless...if indeed Collins signed with another team

 

[aluminum seats]

Yeah, but that's the following year… I think the rule of thumb is that waiting another year is equivalent in value to another round.

 

[long distance]

1. BB clearly decided he didn't want to have Collins on the team anymore.
2. He'd try to avoid trading him to a rival (this or next year) or to a team they still have to play.
3. If they didn't find a trade partner he would cut him (look at #1).
4. If they'd cut him they would loose any kind of value and any kind of control where he goes.
_
SS. BB was probably quite happy NC found a partner in Cleveland for a probable comp 2017 3rd.

 

[Sciz]

The Patriots have been so good at getting comp picks lately that it's easy to forget that they're not guaranteed.

 

[50-yard-line]

The answer is a big YES!!!! Linebacker is a need for next season. A very big need.

Whom do we currently have under contract for the 2017??????

There is a lot riding on the Hightower negotiations. He has much more leverage at the moment without the team being able to play off Collins.

Van Noy, Freeny, McClellin, Roberts.

Serviceable group, but will be nowhere near a strength on the team.

Mingo and Hightower are FAs. Gotta sign Hightower...draft another physical monster, or grab someone out of FA.

 

[supafly]

You don't think there was a market in the NFL for the healthy 29 year old Lawyer Milloy or 27 year old James Sanders?

It's all conjecture, but it sure seems sometimes BB just wants a guy gone and doesn't care about getting something in return.

I'd add first round pro bowler Merriweather in there as well. Another good example of what you're speaking of.

 

[RayClay]

I'm greedy.

Yes, it worked fine for 2003 and 2004. But what if they got a 4th round pick for Milloy (who had value at that time). Could that pick have helped in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008? No one knows, but why give stuff away for free?

Ray, the question is: What does BB have to lose (other than some office time) by getting appropriate value for players you're shipping out?

I have a hard time believing that Collins was worth only a Compensatory 3rd rounder to each and every one of the other 31 NFL teams. Just my opinion.

You think, after actively recruiting linebackers with picks, he was too lazy to make phone calls to all those teams who wanted to give him first round picks for 1/2 season of Collins?

 

[supafly]

Yeah, but the comp pick would've given us either a 3rd or 4th rounder regardless...if indeed Collins signed with another team

That's *if* we lost more players than signed in free agency AND the assumption that someone didn't offer Collins a one or two year deal. As addressed by Belichick at the time, it's no sure thing to assume a 3rd round comp pick.

 

[RayClay]

I'm greedy.

Yes, it worked fine for 2003 and 2004. But what if they got a 4th round pick for Milloy (who had value at that time). Could that pick have helped in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008? No one knows, but why give stuff away for free?

Ray, the question is: What does BB have to lose (other than some office time) by getting appropriate value for players you're shipping out?

I have a hard time believing that Collins was worth only a Compensatory 3rd rounder to each and every one of the other 31 NFL teams. Just my opinion.

As I understand it, they wanted Milloy to take a cut, he relunctantly agreed, then his agent gave them an ultimatum very late in camp, thinking they would fold. Knowing they had rodney, they said see ya.

NFL value is all about timing. I think BB is better than most, if not all, at getting recompense for players he doesn't want/need anymore. Look at Tebucky Jones. Teams cut #1 picks in their last season for nothing all the time.

Why would you want a player who is unhappy about contract talks, is not doing what he's supposed to on the field, and is affecting other players who see a star dogging it and freelancing?

It's a team game and this team is in it for the ring now.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

I knew Van Noy would be an impact player when he was traded for. Reminds me a bit of DeAndre Levy, but a bit more versatile. Can get pressure on the QB, drops into coverage well & pretty stout against the run. He already has 10 QB pressures in 24 pass-rushing snaps & a 23.6 passer rating against. I guess he's basically a slightly less athletic version of Collins that's actually buying into BB's system.


Kyle Van Noy Unexpectedly Taking Over Jamie Collins’ Role In Patriots’ Defense

So basically what you're saying is that Kyle has been Van-Noying to opposing QBs

 

[deroc5050]

If we beat Baltimore and Denver I think the Pats are at least representing the AFC this season.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I have been extremely impressed with van noy. Consider that he did not have a training camp with us and our defense is very complicated.

Even with training camp, it has taken McClellan quite a while to find a role in our defense, injuries aside.

Hard to imagine what Detroit was doing with van noy but it seems to have worked out good for us.

 

[fnordcircle]

Hah, it's going to take a lot for people who made up their mind about McClellin before preseason to ever admit that there might be a potential good fit there...

 

[RobertWeathers]

You don't think there was a market in the NFL for the healthy 29 year old Lawyer Milloy or 27 year old James Sanders?

It's all conjecture, but it sure seems sometimes BB just wants a guy gone and doesn't care about getting something in return.

I don't think that is accurate.

Sanders had minimal trade value and was due $2.5m. He was a JAG here and a JAG for ATL and AZ.

For Milloy, he was due $5.25m. His contract was not a good one. I'm sure they tried to move him to somewhere outside of the AFCE but there were no takers as they knew he was going to cut him anyway.

 

[RayClay]

I don't think that is accurate.

Sanders had minimal trade value and was due $2.5m. He was a JAG here and a JAG for ATL and AZ.

For Milloy, he was due $5.25m. His contract was not a good one. I'm sure they tried to move him to somewhere outside of the AFCE but there were no takers as they knew he was going to cut him anyway.

And, he wasn't released til Sept 2. And they had acquired Rodney Harrison. Given that neither one was remotely a coverage free safety [yes, I know we supposedly don't have 2 types] it was probably a forgone conclusion. Rodney worked out pretty well, no?


Plus, he was coming off a really poor season with a big contract.

 

[Ring 6]

You don't think there was a market in the NFL for the healthy 29 year old Lawyer Milloy or 27 year old James Sanders?

It's all conjecture, but it sure seems sometimes BB just wants a guy gone and doesn't care about getting something in return.

Milliy was untraceable because of his contract. Sanders was so awful that camp that he was cut and lucky to be picked up for the minimum.