PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Training Camp Day 12 (Final public practice)

[luuked]

via Reiss this time we definitely know it is the final public practice until next year:




From Reiss' usual Sunday column (see Two years into post-Gronk life, void at tight end still looms for Patriots) 2-3 things of note:

He sees a vet TE, depth at the interior DL and WR among the most likely spots that the team might run into trouble.

With the TE it is about having a veteran option in addition to Asiasi and Keene. I think it speaks volumes that he doesn't even think of mentioning Izzo here.

When it comes to DL his point is not only about having more depth in case something happens to Allen or Guy but that they have looked generally not very great against the run: "the run D has been gashed at times in camp".

Finally in terms of WR it is more about missing players that can separate (i.e. more of the same as 2019).

As usual I recommend reading through the entire piece because there is much more interesting stuff (e.g. he says that Harry might be the player most benefiting from Cam as QB) inside that I don't just want to copy and paste in here and take clicks away from Reiss.

 

[farn]

Interesting year ahead. I’d be more than fine with Gunner and Ross getting a shot at WR. I’m hoping the RBs get back to late 2018 levels. For that reason, the OL is the unit I feel must shine. Wynn & Andrews, in particular, have gotta be big 2020 contributors.

 

[luuked]

Interesting year ahead. I’d be more than fine with Gunner and Ross getting a shot at WR. I’m hoping the RBs get back to late 2018 levels. For that reason, the OL is the unit I feel must shine. Wynn & Andrews, in particular, have gotta be big 2020 contributors.

The most interesting subplot for me in terms of WRs is that there seems to be the crowd of beat guys who think Byrd has secured a spot on the 53 as the speed guy and then there is another group (Hello Rich Hill & PatsPulpit folks) who thinks Ross has secured that same spot.

Which is weird to me because I was under the impression Devin Ross' 40 yard was in the 4.5 area whereas Byrd managed a sub 4.3 time. Not sure where this disconnect comes from. Maybe there is more to Ross' time than I know.

I assumed Byrd is the only true "burner" we have to take over Dorsett's role. Which is why I assumed him to win a spot on the 53.

 

[Family]

via Reiss:

With the TE it is about having a veteran option in addition to Asiasi and Keene. I think it speaks volumes that he doesn't even think of mentioning Izzo here.

You have taken Reiss comments out of context. He is speaking strictly about the teams starting TE. Reiss begins: "the Patriots have been without Rob Gronkowski since the 2019 off season, but still don't have a clear replacement."

Nobody expects (wants) Izzo to line up as the starting TE or be a replacement for Rob Gronkowski, that's why he's not mentioned. At this stage of his career his role is more a Hoommanawanui; a backup swing TE who can block and catch a little.

Izzo is likely making the team.

 

[Family]

The most interesting subplot for me in terms of WRs is that there seems to be the crowd of beat guys who think Byrd has secured a spot on the 53 as the speed guy and then there is another group (Hello Rich Hill & PatsPulpit folks) who thinks Ross has secured that same spot.

Which is weird to me because I was under the impression Devin Ross' 40 yard was in the 4.5 area whereas Byrd managed a sub 4.3 time. Not sure where this disconnect comes from. Maybe there is more to Ross' time than I know.

I assumed Byrd is the only true "burner" we have to take over Dorsett's role. Which is why I assumed him to win a spot on the 53.

According to Bedard yesterday "Byrd's speed is not real or special." FWIW

 

[luuked]

You have taken Reiss comments out of context. He is speaking strictly about the teams starting TE. Reiss begins: "the Patriots have been without Rob Gronkowski since the 2019 off season, but still don't have a clear replacement."

Nobody expects (wants) Izzo to line up as the starting TE or be a replacement for Rob Gronkowski, that's why he's not mentioned. At this stage of his career his role is more a Hoommanawanui; a backup swing TE who can block and catch a little.

Izzo is likely making the team.

I have not taken anything out of context and I have nowhere suggested Izzo would not make the roster.

The reality is that Izzo only makes the team because he is the only vet option. If they had LaCosse -- as Reiss clearly states in his column -- he'd be the vet option. And we would not also carry Izzo in addition to that.

Izzo knows the protections and has experience playing and that's more or less the only thing he has going for himself.

 

[Family]

Izzo only makes the team because he is the only vet option. If they had LaCosse -- as Reiss clearly states in his column -- he'd be the vet option.

We disagree. Even though they are both TEs and veteran options, they are different players with different roles.

 

[luuked]

We disagree. Even though they are both TEs and veteran options, they are different players with different roles.

I rewrote my comment to be more specific at the same time you answered but the point is the same. Izzo only makes the roster because LaCosse opted out and they didn't sign any other vet.

There is no way they would have carried LaCosse, Asiasi, Keene and Izzo this year.

 

[Family]

There is no way they would have carried LaCosse, Asiasi, Keene and Izzo this year.

I agree and think LaCosse would have been the one gone.

I think we both agree the team is moving towards more of a running/ball control based one. Having Izzo line up as second or third TE in those situations is better than LaCosse.

 

[patman52]

According to Bedard yesterday "Byrd's speed is not real or special." FWIW

I don;t get that fans don't understand that running in pads is different than running in shorts. Some people it affects much more than others. I mean you got 30lbs of gear on. In most cases you get a guy like Gordon at 220 lbs carrying the 30 lbs is a lot different than a guy who is 185 lbs. never mind that some people recover a lot faster than others, so that by the end of a 12 snap series they are no longer that guy vs another guy with more stamina. Speed is speed throughout a game carrying 30 lbs. Not one 40 yard dash.

 

[scott99]

According to Bedard yesterday "Byrd's speed is not real or special." FWIW

I agree, When watching film on Byrd, I don’t see 4.28 or 4.30, never did. I see a small, thin, slot receiver who will average 11-12 yards a catch. I don’t see a deep threat.

 

[signbabybrady]

I don;t get that fans don't understand that running in pads is different than running in shorts. Some people it affects much more than others. I mean you got 30lbs of gear on. In most cases you get a guy like Gordon at 220 lbs carrying the 30 lbs is a lot different than a guy who is 185 lbs. never mind that some people recover a lot faster than others, so that by the end of a 12 snap series they are no longer that guy vs another guy with more stamina. Speed is speed throughout a game carrying 30 lbs. Not one 40 yard dash.

You just making things up? 30 lbs of equipment seems way too high. The helmet is probably the heaviest thing the wear and that can't be more than 5 lbs. Let's say the shoulder pads are 5 lbs too. That's ten and nothing else they wear is of any real weight. A knee brace, thigh pads, and knee pads are all light. Not sure what else they wear.

 

[luuked]

Speed is speed throughout a game carrying 30 lbs. Not one 40 yard dash.

The entire point of having combine drills is to have a baseline comparison of certain attributes under identical conditions. Nobody is arguing that Byrd is running a sub 4.3 with pads on. What I am saying is that under pretty much identical conditions one of them ran the 40 in about 4.3 the other in 4.5.

Now of course its probable that Ross will lose less time when pads are on given his size advantage but that loss is normally distributed and its unlikely that he will suddenly end up making up that difference just because of those additional 15-20 pounds.

Either way what it all boiled down to is that some people apparently consider a 4.5 guy for the deep role which seems weird to me. Unless his pro day numbers are not representative at all. But then I would assume we would have heard from more beat guys about him having surprising speed.

The reality is that over the last two weeks is that Byrd had almost twice the number of targets from Newton and Stidham which to me is the closest thing to a proxy for estimating who is ahead.

 

[patman52]

You just making things up? 30 lbs of equipment seems way too high. The helmet is probably the heaviest thing the wear and that can't be more than 5 lbs. Let's say the shoulder pads are 5 lbs too. That's ten and nothing else they wear is of any real weight. A knee brace, thigh pads, and knee pads are all light. Not sure what else they wear.

I didn't mean for it to be taken literally. When i go out in the winter I "wear 10 lbs of clothes" I really don't wear 10 lbs of clothes.

 

[borg]

I didn't mean for it to be taken literally. When i go out in the winter I "wear 10 lbs of clothes" I really don't wear 10 lbs of clothes.

Projecting ignorance is your schtick?

 

[patman52]

The entire point of having combine drills is to have a baseline comparison of certain attributes under identical conditions. Nobody is arguing that Byrd is running a sub 4.3 with pads on. What I am saying is that under pretty much identical conditions one of them ran the 40 in about 4.3 the other in 4.5.

Now of course its probable that Ross will lose less time when pads are on given his size advantage but that loss is normally distributed and its unlikely that he will suddenly end up making up that difference just because of those additional 15-20 pounds.

Either way what it all boiled down to is that some people apparently consider a 4.5 guy for the deep role which seems weird to me. Unless his pro day numbers are not representative at all. But then I would assume we would have heard from more beat guys about him having surprising speed.

The reality is that over the last two weeks is that Byrd had almost twice the number of targets from Newton and Stidham which to me is the closest thing to a proxy for estimating who is ahead.

fine, but all it is a base line when both players are rested and are asked to run with shorts and track shoes on a track. Now people see how fast they are on a football field, coming out of a different stance, wearing cleats, a football uniform and repeatedly running 12 times in 4 min, I think the baseline .1 diff in speed starts to have much less impact.

Now if the guy comes in and just runs the 9 route 5 times a game it has more significance.

 

[patman52]

Projecting ignorance is your schtick?

Being a **** is yours?

 

[farn]

Being a **** is yours?

Oh snap

 

[Patsgofor4]

Being a **** is yours?

 

[Sciz]

The reality is that over the last two weeks is that Byrd had almost twice the number of targets from Newton and Stidham which to me is the closest thing to a proxy for estimating who is ahead.

Yeah, it’s a bit like when a reporter shut down the Austin Carr hype train by pointing out that he had never caught a ball from Brady in team drills. The “scrimmage” was a little helpful too, in that Newton’s team had Edelman, Sanu, Harry, and Byrd while the Stidham/Hoyer team had Gunner, Meyers, Ross, and Thomas.