Torn between FA WRs Mike Wallace and Brandon Lloyd...

[PatsFan2]

And Rams have started contract negotiations with Lloyd.

What remains to be seen is whether they make Lloyd an offer he can't refuse (or assume we would match). He could be off the market by mid month. As for Wallace, there will be a bidding war for his services under the tender and we would likely be outbid for the priviledge of trading #31 anyway. In order to make a deal with an RFA stick you generally have to overbid market or inject a poison pill to keep the team that owns his rights from matching. Steelers would likely retain him on a team/cap friendly deal. Not sure we would ever do either. That's one reason we traded a bit more for Welker rather than sign him to an offer sheet.

Wouldn't Wallace have a say in where he wants to go? If waht you say is correct i would sweeten the Deal and throw in our Third Rounder it's not like we do well with Third Rounders anyway. We have the money, and the debate begins Wallace or Weker? Love Welker but Slot WR's aren't exactly hard to find...ducks out of thew way. Forget i said that we can sign Welker to cap friendly deal and empty our Books on Wallace.

 

[Sciz]

I will say that Mike Wallace excells at what our current Offense lacks outside speed and he consistently takes the Safety with him also. So you guys are telling that Mike Wallace wouldn't open things up more for Welker - Gronk and Hernandez? Seriously guys we have to pick our poison. Pick 27 for Wallace...that would be a First round pick well spent on proven talent that fills a definite NEED...what's not to like? We have a very SLOW Offense that can be exposed by good Defenses...Wallace puts us in Elite territory. When was the last a time a WR on our Team caught a comeback? Terry Glenn Many moons ago. I love Vincent Jackson but i would take Mike Wallace over him easily.

It's not just the pick involved. They'd then also have to outbid the rest of the teams interested plus the Steelers. So we're talking a first round pick and probably the second highest WR contract right now. Yuck.

 

[PatsFan2]

Teams in AFC who could use WR Mike Wallace.

1) N.E. Patriots = Offense has NO Speed outside.:snob:


2) Houston = Opposite Andre Johnson they would be dangerous and scarry.:scared:


3) Cleveland = Who do they have at QB again?


4) Baltimore = Would they have the $$$


5) Miami maybe.

 

[Deus Irae]

Teams in AFC who could use WR Mike Wallace.

1) N.E. Patriots = Offense has NO Speed outside.:snob:


2) Houston = Opposite Andre Johnson they would be dangerous and scarry.:scared:


3) Cleveland = Who do they have at QB again?


4) Baltimore = Would they have the $$$


5) Miami maybe.

Cleveland and Miami are both drafting in the top 10. It's probably very safe to assume that they're not giving up their picks in order to sign Wallace.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I will say that Mike Wallace excells at what our current Offense lacks outside speed and he consistently takes the Safety with him also. So you guys are telling that Mike Wallace wouldn't open things up more for Welker - Gronk and Hernandez? Seriously guys we have to pick our poison. Pick 27 for Wallace...that would be a First round pick well spent on proven talent that fills a definite NEED...what's not to like? We have a very SLOW Offense that can be exposed by good Defenses...Wallace puts us in Elite territory. When was the last a time a WR on our Team caught a comeback? Terry Glenn Many moons ago. I love Vincent Jackson but i would take Mike Wallace over him easily.

Wallace will require a first round pick, and it would be our own at 31, but he will also require a top tier deal and probably an overpay to get him away from not just the steelers but several other competitors bidding for his service via offer sheets. And if his own coach was right and he's a one trick pony, whose production tanked in the second half of just his third season, then what? Brady isn't going to throw to him unless he runs the correct route with precision, and even then Brady may not be upright long enough to. What we need is a WR with the capacity to adapt to this offense quickly so he can be on the field including in hurry up and run all the routes and get seperation quickly and beat jams and stretch the field horizontally as well as vertically and do all the other little things like blocking and setting up rubs and picks for teamates and not cost double digits against the cap.

People will question the continued investment in a player like Welker who has excelled in this system for 5 straight seasons because he may not be able to maintain that production past a couple of more seasons. Yet they can't wait to invest the same money over a longer term in a complete unknown related to this system. I chalk that willingness up to fantasy football plug and play talent mentality where stats accrue to players irrespective of team.

 

[Kal El]

Pittsburgh Steelers won't franchise WR Mike Wallace, source says - ESPN


If they won't franchise him and can only tender how can they still receive a 1st rounder for him? Can anyone explain?

 

[PatsFan2]

Wallace will require a first round pick, and it would be our own at 31, but he will also require a top tier deal and probably an overpay to get him away from not just the steelers but several other competitors bidding for his service via offer sheets. And if his own coach was right and he's a one trick pony, whose production tanked in the second half of just his third season, then what? Brady isn't going to throw to him unless he runs the correct route with precision, and even then Brady may not be upright long enough to. What we need is a WR with the capacity to adapt to this offense quickly so he can be on the field including in hurry up and run all the routes and get seperation quickly and beat jams and stretch the field horizontally as well as vertically and do all the other little things like blocking and setting up rubs and picks for teamates and not cost double digits against the cap.

People will question the continued investment in a player like Welker who has excelled in this system for 5 straight seasons because he may not be able to maintain that production past a couple of more seasons. Yet they can't wait to invest the same money over a longer term in a complete unknown related to this system. I chalk that willingness up to fantasy football plug and play talent mentality where stats accrue to players irrespective of team.

Mo i know what you are saying but i think the opportunity is there...it's just how much does BB values Wallace. I think he would make Brady's life a alot easier with the Safety playing back in coverage.

 

[PatsFan2]

Cleveland and Miami are both drafting in the top 10. It's probably very safe to assume that they're not giving up their picks in order to sign Wallace.

Cleveland aslo have Selection 22 in the First...like us they have two First Rounders.

 

[Marqui]

Re: Torn between Wallace and Lloyd...

Cleveland aslo have Selection 22 in the First...like us they have two First Rounders.

I'm pretty sure you don't get to choose which 1st you give up, you have to give up your own. And in CLEs case that's a top 10 pick. They're not signing Wallace.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Wallace will require a first round pick, and it would be our own at 31, but he will also require a top tier deal and probably an overpay to get him away from not just the steelers but several other competitors bidding for his service via offer sheets. And if his own coach was right and he's a one trick pony, whose production tanked in the second half of just his third season, then what? Brady isn't going to throw to him unless he runs the correct route with precision, and even then Brady may not be upright long enough to. What we need is a WR with the capacity to adapt to this offense quickly so he can be on the field including in hurry up and run all the routes and get seperation quickly and beat jams and stretch the field horizontally as well as vertically and do all the other little things like blocking and setting up rubs and picks for teamates and not cost double digits against the cap.

People will question the continued investment in a player like Welker who has excelled in this system for 5 straight seasons because he may not be able to maintain that production past a couple of more seasons. Yet they can't wait to invest the same money over a longer term in a complete unknown related to this system. I chalk that willingness up to fantasy football plug and play talent mentality where stats accrue to players irrespective of team.

What he does do though is keep the defense honest, they will have to keep a saftey deep and not be able to play man coverage on our two outside receivers. That opens up the middle for the TE's and the slot receiver. If we go into next season with Branch and Ocho as the outside guys TB will throw outside the numbers a small percentage of the time and every team will simply play 1-on-1 outside and clog the middle. As an offense we've got to evolve to save getting found out

I also think you're doing Wallace down a little, from what i saw of him his route running/separation looked fine to me. He could also get off jams on the line. Plus of course he has blazing speed

 

[PatsFan2]

What he does do though is keep the defense honest, they will have to keep a saftey deep and not be able to play man coverage on our two outside receivers. That opens up the middle for the TE's and the slot receiver. If we go into next season with Branch and Ocho as the outside guys TB will throw outside the numbers a small percentage of the time and every team will simply play 1-on-1 outside and clog the middle. As an offense we've got to evolve to save getting found out

I also think you're doing Wallace down a little, from what i saw of him his route running/separation looked fine to me. He could also get off jams on the line. Plus of course he has blazing speed

Good post Joe...we have a very Good Offense but it's not unstopable against very good Defenses. Even though the final numbers say we were the #2 overall Offense, our Offense couldn't hold a candle to Green Bay's or the Saints Offense. They have Elites on the outsides with speed so they were basically playing catch against the Defense. As you said Joe Goods Defense could clog the middle against us and make it tough for Brady...People think about Brady playing against a Safety who plays outside the box...it doesn't get any easier...Mike Wallace would make our Offense even better than 2007.

 

[Gronkandez]

I know I'm in the minority but I doubt there will be anything close to a bidding war for Wallace. The first round pick will deter many teams.

There are only two or three teams
a) where Wallace fills a need
b) who has cap space to offer a front-loaded contract that the Steelers can't match and
c) has a LATE 1st round pick

Other than the Patriots I don't see any good matches. Houston probably doesn't have the cap room, the Browns and Bengals have picks but they're too high/valuable to trade for Wallace.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Pittsburgh Steelers won't franchise WR Mike Wallace, source says - ESPN


If they won't franchise him and can only tender how can they still receive a 1st rounder for him? Can anyone explain?

He is a restricted free agent (RFA) because his rookie contract is expiring but he has less than 4 accrued seasons so he is not an unrestricted free agent (UFA) and therefore remains the property of the Steelers provided they tender him as a RFA. They could have tagged him (their choice to tag or tender) but they are really in a cap mess and don't have the space to. That would have required a 1st and a 3rd as compensation if anyone signed him to a contract the Steelers chose not to match. The Steelers will instead tender him at the highest RFA level, which is a $2.8M one year deal that allows him to talk to other teams but if one signs him to a contract offer sheet the Steelers get a week to match it or accept a 1st round pick as compensation for losing him. They could have also tendered him for less money and been eligible for a 2nd round pick or a pick in the same round in which he was originally drafted. It's the teams choice which tender to place on the player. If we tender Hoyer as expected we will likely place the 2nd round tender on him even though he was signed as an UDFA. The low tender and you might as well not tender him since there would be no compensation for him. I think Williams was drafted in the 3rd round, and it's a no brainer if he'd been tendered at that level 32 teams might be after him.

 

[JoeShmoe]

I know I'm in the minority but I doubt there will be anything close to a bidding war for Wallace. The first round pick will deter many teams.

There are only two or three teams
a) where Wallace fills a need
b) who has cap space to offer a front-loaded contract that the Steelers can't match and
c) has a LATE 1st round pick

Other than the Patriots I don't see any good matches. Houston probably doesn't have the cap room, the Browns and Bengals have picks but they're too high/valuable to trade for Wallace.

So *if* lets say we were the only suitor, could we get him for a cap friendly deal knowing the Steelers couldn't/wouldn't match it? Does Wallace have the right to refuse? I assume if he does all he would get is that £2.8m figure?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Reality says the Pats are not picking EITHER of these two up.

Reggie Wayne is the ONLY WR I can see getting any attention by the F.O.

The focus will be to re-sign Welker and add a burner in the draft and Branch is going nowhere.

Its not like the offense was at the bottom of the league,all it needs is a little tweeking and another addition on the outside.

 

[Gronkandez]

So *if* lets say we were the only suitor, could we get him for a cap friendly deal knowing the Steelers couldn't/wouldn't match it? Does Wallace have the right to refuse? I assume if he does all he would get is that £2.8m figure?

It would most likely need to be a cap-UN-friendly deal for 2012 to keep the Steelers from matching the offer. They are really strapped this year. The overall deal could be reasonable though.

Yes, Wallace can either play for the tender or agree to an offer from another club, which the Steelers then have the right to match.

I personally think the Pats will end up with Wayne though.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I know I'm in the minority but I doubt there will be anything close to a bidding war for Wallace. The first round pick will deter many teams.

There are only two or three teams
a) where Wallace fills a need
b) who has cap space to offer a front-loaded contract that the Steelers can't match and
c) has a LATE 1st round pick

Other than the Patriots I don't see any good matches. Houston probably doesn't have the cap room, the Browns and Bengals have picks but they're too high/valuable to trade for Wallace.

I think there are more teams that will be interested and it's not necessarily a matter of frontloading a deal to preclude the Steelers matching. I don't think they will match any top tier deal and there are lots of teams out there with cash to spend and need or even a want (for speed) at WR.
.
One of the problems the Steelers have (in addition to an institutional aversion to paying top tier money and a cap crunch that will continue at least through 2013) is they think they have a better all around WR right behind him who will be in line for his own deal next season. Kind of like the situation we faced with Branch and Givens where we wouldn't extend for either one because we didn't want to raise the bar for the other. A problem we will face when the two headed TE monster has to be extended. The Steelers will want to be flexible enough to tag that kid or get him signed to a pricey extention. And if you don't think there are always teams out there willing to part with a top 15 pick for an unproven WR in the draft...

 

[JackBauer]

Reality says the Pats are not picking EITHER of these two up.

Reggie Wayne is the ONLY WR I can see getting any attention by the F.O.

This is a pretty funny post.

Do tell us why reality says the Patriots won't be in the running for Mr. Lloyd's services?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

So *if* lets say we were the only suitor, could we get him for a cap friendly deal knowing the Steelers couldn't/wouldn't match it? Does Wallace have the right to refuse? I assume if he does all he would get is that £2.8m figure?

All Wallace cares about is the bottom line. He'd only care about structure in relation to how much he's guaranteed. Thing is teams won't **** around with him forever. There are 600 FA on the market and the draft to consider. Teams won't wait for him to make a decision. Some teams won't even get into RFA's for that reason. They don't want to be in limbo for 7 days while other targets evaporate. But the longer it goes the less likely he doesn't have to settle for a deal the Steelers could live with. Unless the deal includes a poison pill, and we won't go there on principle.

I believe the CBA does also allow for trading future or non original draft picks once you get within 7 days of the draft, provided all parties agree to it. So it is possible he hangs around on the tender until a day or so before the draft and some team trades back and then signs him to an offer sheet that the Steelers have agreed not to match in exchange for a lower than original first round pick or a first round pick in 2013. Or he can agree to sign his tender to facilitate a trade as Welker did, if indeed the Steelers aren't totally committed to retaining him for 2012 or they believe he won't show before week 10.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

This is a pretty funny post.

Do tell us why reality says the Patriots won't be in the running for Mr. Lloyd's services?

Because all reports indicate that Fisher is doing everything he can to keep him in St. louis ....Jeff likes the guy and he usually knows how to keep a team from losing players that will downgrade it.

Don't bet on Lloyd not staying as a Ram just yet.

Lloyd was not thrilled about last season,maybe Fisher gives him hope things will change for the better.