Too in love with the shotgun?

[Rob0729]

Cassel gets hit the most often and hardest when we use the shotgun. He doesn't nearly get nailed as much or at the same ratio when under center.

You see defensive ends SPRINTING up field, and the middle of the pocket also breaks up pretty often. The protection deteriorates the more often we use the same shot-gun formation, over and over and over.

When by your estimates the Pats are in shotgun 2/3 of the time. The Pats probably run more running plays out of formations when Cassel is out of center. So by per logic doesn't it mean it is likely that Cassel would be hit more out of the shotgun especially since you claim he is in the shotgun 66.6% of the time?

 

[Rob0729]

i do think we should get back to running a little more. We didn't have much of a chance to do it today because we were behind. We didn't go to it while we were driving though, but they scored.

Prior to this week, the Pats didn't have all of it's weapons in the running game. That played a role in the less rushing plays. Today I agree being behind and the Seahawks having a poor pass defense played into why so many passing calls.

 

[PATSNUTme]

OK stop with the personal insults. I'm deleting the last 2 post. Try again without resorting to personal insults.

 

[Rob0729]

OK stop with the personal insults. I'm deleting the last 2 post. Try again without resorting to personal insults.

Sorry. I am trying to keep these McDaniels' discussions at least somewhat civil. Should have been the bigger man and not retaliate. I guess I didn't. Will try next time.

 

[maverick4]

When by your estimates the Pats are in shotgun 2/3 of the time. The Pats probably run more running plays out of formations when Cassel is out of center. So by per logic doesn't it mean it is likely that Cassel would be hit more out of the shotgun especially since you claim he is in the shotgun 66.6% of the time?

As you failed to note in the previous post, I am talking about percentages, not absolute numbers.

Cassel, and Brady before him, get absolutely nailed at a higher rate in this shot-gun than they do under center. They repeatedly get pounded, hurried, and sacked. Look at the defensive ends literally sprinting up field everytime we use this formation, the pocket collapses much faster than it does when we start under center.

 

[Rob0729]

As you failed to note in the previous post, I am talking about percentages, not absolute numbers.

Cassel, and Brady before him, get absolutely nailed at a higher rate in this shot-gun than they do under center. They repeatedly get pounded, hurried, and sacked. Look at the defensive ends literally sprinting up field everytime we use this formation, the pocket collapses much faster than it does when we start under center.

Ok, I will respond to this again. First, do you have any evidence that Cassel gets sacked more percentage-wise in the shotgun? How about when you take out the running plays out of the equation? Does Cassel get sacked more percentage-wise on passing plays out of the shotgun vs. passing plays with him lining up under center? How many quick screens and long passes does he throw out of each formation and how does that correlate to the sacks.

You need to show some evidence in these statements.

 

[LeonPowe]

McDaniels and Pees need to go if the Patriots ever expect to win another Super Bowl in the near future.

 

[PATSNUTme]

As you failed to note in the previous post, I am talking about percentages, not absolute numbers.

Cassel, and Brady before him, get absolutely nailed at a higher rate in this shot-gun than they do under center. They repeatedly get pounded, hurried, and sacked. Look at the defensive ends literally sprinting up field everytime we use this formation, the pocket collapses much faster than it does when we start under center.

Mav, when you post about McDaniels, please use his real name. Your name for him just irritates others. That's not what you are trying to do, is it?

 

[maverick4]

Your post would make more sense if you could point out where I used the hapless, predictable coordinator's name in that post.

 

[Rob0729]

Your post would make more sense if you could point out where I used the hapless, predictable coordinator's name in that post.

PATSNUTme, does this answer your question?

 

[maverick4]

In the second half we used mostly the same 3-wide-left, 1-wide-right shotgun formation over and over, and Cassel basically had an unreal amazing game in order for us to win this one, while constantly taking a beating or being hurried in a fast-collapsing pocket against defensive ends who were SPRINTING upfield after every snap.

Is this a smart way to call a game?

This offense is all Wes Welker, without the little guy with the huge heart we would be toast, the offense isn't about scheme anymore, it is just on talent and execution. Unfortunately we are grinding up and using Welker to propel our offense without trying to pace his use or limit his wear/tear.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Your post would make more sense if you could point out where I used the hapless, predictable coordinator's name in that post.

I asked you nicely, being forewarned is being foretold. you know exactly what I'm talking about. end of story.

 

[maverick4]

I have no problem calling out McDaniels by name, but what I find funny is how posters like Rob scour the board looking for ANY posts by ANY poster that criticize their OC God. They are only Pats fans in name, they are really Colts fans cheering for the wrong team.

 

[Rob0729]

I have no problem calling out McDaniels by name, but what I find funny is how posters like Rob scour the board looking for ANY posts by ANY poster that criticize their OC God. They are only Pats fans in name, they are really Colts fans cheering for the wrong team.

So PATSNUTme warns both of us to stop with the insults and you turn around and insult me again. Can we stop this crap already? I'm tired of it? Aren't you?

If you can't, PATSNUTme can you suspend him?

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I think it's ridiculous to criticize mcdaniels. he is taking orders from BB.

we pass because we have better matchups that way and our OL is more suited to passing than running.

but i still don't think cassel passing 44 times is a good thing. it puts the game in his hands. if he has a good game then fine but if he's awfulw e ahve no balance.

it's the same reason i didn't like when the pats opened the season with like 6 or 7 straight passes then brady went down.

you need to run the ball to keep the pass rush honest. the pats do this with the draws, but i still don't think that is running the ball enough.

ben watson on a side note is the disappearing man.

i guess i have to admit we don't have a power run formation otherwise we'd use it more. our personnel is not suited to running the ball and we need to address that.

i guess there are more pressing issues to deal with but i'd still like to see more running.

 

[maverick4]

Rob why don't you stop making things personal and debate based on points and arguments? Your ad hominem is getting really old.

In every post the past few weeks you keep trying to spin it as some sort of attack on your OC God.

Why are you so immature.

 

[maverick4]

I think it's ridiculous to criticize mcdaniels. he is taking orders from BB.

It is PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE to criticize the playcalling during games and attribute it to McDaniels.

Belichick meets with his coordinators during the week to craft game plans, but during games the coordinators are calling the plays.

When we decide to go shot-gun in the exact same formation for 3/4 of our snaps in the second half, that is on McDaniels, not Belichick.

It is the same reason why the defense has looked so different under Pees, Mangini, and Romeo even though Belichick was the head coach over all of them. He gives his coordinators a LOT of autonomy.

 

[Rob0729]

Why don't you stop making things personal?

In every post the past few weeks you keep trying to spin it as some sort of attack on your OC God.

Why are you so immature.

I'm done. Obviously, you cannot communicate without insults. Keep it up. I think PATSNUTme is serious about his threats to you.

 

[Deus Irae]

I have no problem calling out McDaniels by name, but what I find funny is how posters like Rob scour the board looking for ANY posts by ANY poster that criticize their OC God. They are only Pats fans in name, they are really Colts fans cheering for the wrong team.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/192208-patriots-getting-out-schemed.html

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/192207-one-thing-ive-really-noticed-about-cassel.html#post1196811

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/192176-what-great-happy-gutty-performance.html#post1196717

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/19/192075-official-pats-seahawks-discussion-page23.html#post1196416

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/189594-dont-look-now-but-colts-new-new-england-patriots-page2.html#post1189851


etc....

Yeah, it's Rob that's the problem... How he found your only post on the topic is just amazing.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

It is PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE to criticize the playcalling during games and attribute it to McDaniels.

Belichick meets with his coordinators during the week to craft game plans, but during games the coordinators are calling the plays.

When we decide to go shot-gun in the exact same formation for 3/4 of our snaps in the second half, that is on McDaniels, not Belichick.

It is the same reason why the defense has looked so different under Pees, Mangini, and Romeo even though Belichick was the head coach over all of them. He gives his coordinators a LOT of autonomy.

so after the previous 10 games or so how come Belichick hasn't changed his mind and switched? seems to me like that's on him.