Too in love with the shotgun?

[apple strudel]

What strikes me as silly is how the people jumping on Deus now are doing so under the guise of defending the board from the attack mentality each of them readily exhibits here and elsewhere when they think a post is...silly... LOL

Don't tell me you're equating a troll with somebody asking somebody else not to troll.

 

[Deus Irae]

thanks. I didn't know being called silly( when the intention was not to be) was a compliment.

I didn't call you silly. I called your post silly, in response to an attack from a 3rd party poster. I was neither complimenting you nor insulting you.

 

[apple strudel]

I didn't call you silly. I called your post silly, in response to an attack from a 3rd party poster. I was neither complimenting you nor insulting you.

Again, this is an irrelevant distinction. The larger issue is that there is a more productive way of handling the situation. Specifically, address the issues raised in the OP with substantive responses rather than calling the post silly.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I didn't call you silly. I called your post silly, in response to an attack from a 3rd party poster. I was neither complimenting you nor insulting you.

well aside.

the thread is derailed, but I still wonder if the Pats are too shotgun happy. I do like that they run out of it and have been productive.

I just wonder if it will catch up with them if they get away from the run and have pass rushers just tee back.

And I wonder what is the difference now and in the SB. why didn't they run more short routes and screens in the SB? why didn't welker have 20 catches in that game? do the pats just have a bad matchup against a team that has depth on d-line and have have depth at pass rushers?

I do think it will be a topic to be discussed now or by the end of the season.

 

[Deus Irae]

Again, this is an irrelevant distinction. The larger issue is that there is a more productive way of handling the situation. Specifically, address the issues raised in the OP with substantive responses rather than calling the post silly.

Again you get it completely wrong. It's quickly becoming a pattern for you.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Oh, don't tell me we've got yet another thread where Deus has termed anyone who doesn't agree with him as "silly" or some other derogatory comment, do we? That seems to be the majority of threads these days.

Overall I find it amusing that in the Weis/McDaniels thread there's the statement that Weis was a bad OC because he didn't use the Shotgun enough - and now we have the criticism that the Shotgun's being used too much by McDaniels.

Going out on a limb, both statements probably have a degree of truth - both could probably have mixed it up a bit more - but as far as this season and the shotgun, I have a tough time criticizing McDaniels for use of the shotgun, especially given the play of the OL at times... anything to buy Cassel some more time is OK by me - and who knows, maybe Cassel is more comfortable in the shotgun. If that's the case, I can't blame them for using it as much as they do.

 

[Deus Irae]

well aside.

the thread is derailed, but I still wonder if the Pats are too shotgun happy. I do like that they run out of it and have been productive.

I just wonder if it will catch up with them if they get away from the run and have pass rushers just tee back.

And I wonder what is the difference now and in the SB. why didn't they run more short routes and screens in the SB? why didn't welker have 20 catches in that game? do the pats just have a bad matchup against a team that has depth on d-line and have have depth at pass rushers?

I do think it will be a topic to be discussed now or by the end of the season.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/77375-offensive-pass-protection-breakdown-excellent-read.html#post790877

Read that whole thread, but the post I pointed to is a good beginning.

 

[363839]

I don't think they're too Shot gun happy as long as it works.
I'm sure we'll see alot of that in a little bit...

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/77375-offensive-pass-protection-breakdown-excellent-read.html#post790877

Read that whole thread, but the post I pointed to is a good beginning.

this is my point... will it catch up with them again?

I could not stand losing to the giants again.

 

[Deus Irae]

this is my point... will it catch up with them again?

I could not stand losing to the giants again.

What "again"? You are wrong about the screens and you're blaming the shotgun formation when the problem was poor offensive line play.

 

[Kontradiction]

Arguing over whether or not someone insulted you just sounds like a massive copout to me.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

What "again"? You are wrong about the screens and you're blaming the shotgun formation when the problem was poor offensive line play.

where do you get that?

the thread is titled "too in love with the shotgun"

it is about blocking scheme and lack of running.

we're just not on the same page here.

my contention is will the shotgun blocking scheme hold up or does it suddenly collapse with the absence of let's say Neal.

can a primarily shotgun offense be a healthy offense? peyton was criticized for not being able to get to the big one and win the big one until he threw less and run the ball more.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Arguing over whether or not someone insulted you just sounds like a massive copout to me.

copout from what?

it's about belittling someone's topic thus destroying their credibility. i'm about principles

 

[Deus Irae]

where do you get that?

the thread is titled "too in love with the shotgun"

it is about blocking scheme and lack of running.

we're just not on the same page here.

my contention is will the shotgun blocking scheme hold up or does it suddenly collapse with the absence of let's say Neal.

can a primarily shotgun offense be a healthy offense? peyton was criticized for not being able to get to the big one and win the big one until he threw less and run the ball more.

Your own post was the one that brought up screens.

As for Peyton, he was criticized because he choked in the playoffs.

The Patriots were 18-0 and being looked at as possibly the greatest team in NFL history. They lost their starting right guard during the Super Bowl, and also had to deal with the backup being less than 100%, and Faulk getting hurt. They played against the #1 pass rushing team in the league, and Logan Mankins had his worst game as a pro. The team that beat them is currently 10-1 this season despite the loss of 2 of its best pass rushers, and is on a 16-2 tear over the past 2 seasons.

Despite all that, they lost because they dropped easy interceptions and because a receiver made a fluky catch with his helmet.

 

[Rob0729]

Oh, don't tell me we've got yet another thread where Deus has termed anyone who doesn't agree with him as "silly" or some other derogatory comment, do we? That seems to be the majority of threads these days.

Overall I find it amusing that in the Weis/McDaniels thread there's the statement that Weis was a bad OC because he didn't use the Shotgun enough - and now we have the criticism that the Shotgun's being used too much by McDaniels.

Going out on a limb, both statements probably have a degree of truth - both could probably have mixed it up a bit more - but as far as this season and the shotgun, I have a tough time criticizing McDaniels for use of the shotgun, especially given the play of the OL at times... anything to buy Cassel some more time is OK by me - and who knows, maybe Cassel is more comfortable in the shotgun. If that's the case, I can't blame them for using it as much as they do.

Wait a second. You misquoted me. I am the one who talked about Charlie with the shotgun. I never said he was a bad OC because of it nor did I say he was bad at all. I think he is a very good OC, but I don't think he would have broken all the records McDaniels did because he doesn't love the shotgun. I think the shotgun plays a big role in Brady being so muc more a prolific passer than previous years because he feels more comfortable in it. I think Charlie would have been successful with last year's offense, just not as much.

 

[Kontradiction]

copout from what?

it's about belittling someone's topic thus destroying their credibility. i'm about principles

I'm just shocked you actually care about credibility on the internet. If he's belittling your topic then debate back and back it up by using as many facts as you can. If you cannot do this then you shouldn't have posted the topic in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I like you as a poster usually. But if you're going to cop out then at least admit it instead of whining over some ill perceived personal attack.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Wait a second. You misquoted me. I am the one who talked about Charlie with the shotgun. I never said he was a bad OC because of it nor did I say he was bad at all. I think he is a very good OC, but I don't think he would have broken all the records McDaniels did because he doesn't love the shotgun. I think the shotgun plays a big role in Brady being so muc more a prolific passer than previous years because he feels more comfortable in it. I think Charlie would have been successful with last year's offense, just not as much.

I recognize that was one of many points and not the sole reason for your argument.

I'd agree with you though that Weis would not have broken the offensive records that happened under McDaniels tenure - and (although I recognize this is not the thread for discussing this) that's why I favor Weis over McDaniels.

I feel that Weis would have gladly thumbed his nose at individual TD records to keep his offense more balanced, using all the WRs he had at his more effectively - and thereby keeping Defenses that much more OFF-balance.

I feel pretty confident that would have paid enough of a dividend in the final game of the season to give us the win - hence my feeling Weis would be an upgrade.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

guess today wasn't the Pats day. too many turnovers.

i still think you need a running game

 

[Kontradiction]

guess today wasn't the Pats day. too many turnovers.

i still think you need a running game

We actually ran for a pretty nice chunk of yards. Check out the NFL game center and add up all the yards between the backs. Well over 120 yards on the ground.

 

[captain stone]

I feel that Weis would have gladly thumbed his nose at individual TD records to keep his offense more balanced, using all the WRs he had at his more effectively - and thereby keeping Defenses that much more OFF-balance.

I feel pretty confident that would have paid enough of a dividend in the final game of the season to give us the win - hence my feeling Weis would be an upgrade.

I agree, in both cases.

Who cares about a useless, ego-driven, phony-baloney TD-catching record? And Moss' record is phony, because Jerry Rice caught his 20 in fewer games. All that record did was make Brady take more 7-step drops and make him more vunerable to sacks/knockdowns/late hits. Let's never forget how many of those he took after their bye last season.

Having Charlie as OC may not have won us the SB, but he couldn't have been any worse than Skippy was that disgraceful evening.