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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by KontradictioN, Sep 20, 2009.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No it didn't happen this game, but since the defense had so many problems, apparently many thought that the defense should have held the jets to six and won the ball game.

    With regard to Seymour, while I certainly would much rather undo the deal, the downside has been less than what I expected, at least for the first two games.

  2. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mankins certainly isn't a shadow of himself in 2004, when he was a college junior. :D 40% of starting OL (Mankins and Kaczur) weren't on the SB teams.

    We could have drafted Oher at 23, Beatty or Britten at 34, Vollmer at 58, etc. etc. Maybe the FO didn't draft Oher for a reason - such as the widespread belief that he is a bit on the (mentally) slow side and might have trouble picking up the Pats' complex playbook, or concerns that he was inconsistent and prone to mental lapses. Of course, we may have made a mistake by passing on him - only time will tell. But I assume the FO had their reasons. Others wanted Maualuga, Laurinaitis, Barwin, etc.

    I was personally a bit surprised that we took Chung at 34 - I didn't have him ranked that high. Then everyone started jumping on the Chung bandwagon and anointing him "the next Rodney". That was probably unrealistic. But BB obviously felt that the secondary was the biggest area of concern last offseason, and so far his moves have looked good. There's no reason to suppose that Chung won't eventually develop into a quality complement to Meriweather and be a long-term key component of the defense.
  3. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No moves needed. Oher pretty much fell into their laps in the first round. The Pats, for some odd reason, didn't feel that the OL needed to be upgraded. The OL was one of the biggest weaknesses on the team going into the 2008 season and it showed. What do the Pats do to address it? Draft a work in progress outside of the first round that probably won't have any impact on the OL right away, which is what was needed. So, again, the OL was one of the two biggest weaknesses on the team again going into the 2009 season. The first two games have proved that and I suspect that John Abraham is licking his chops at this point.
  4. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    mgteich, if the Jets had put ANY trust whatsoever in Sanchez in the first half, they would have hung more than 20 on us. The fact that Sanchez threw the ball a whole five times in the first half made them one dimensional and easy to stifle. In the second half, they put the ball almost squarely in his hands and look what happened. The defense got lucky today. Next week won't be the case as the Falcons don't have any reservations about putting the ball in Matt Ryan's hands. And he is very, very capable.
  5. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have no reason to believe that Vollmer will not be at least as good in the offense as the Oher might have been. In any case, dante certainly didn't see the need for an immediate change at OT.

    I was certainly not happy that we did not draft an OT with the 34th pick, after we made some fine trades with the 23. However, as far as OT is concerned, I am absolutely fine with our current four OT's.

  6. Deus Irae

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    Well, you seem happier than I. I see a team that simply cannot get pressure with 4. That's an absolutely enormous downside that could have cost the team in week 1 and certainly contributed to the loss in week 2. Frankly, I'm surprised that you consider that to be less than you expected.
  7. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Let's also remember that the defense was bailed out time and time again in Week 1 by Buffalo shooting themselves in the foot with costly penalties. If Buffalo doesn't do that, we're easily 0-2 at this point.
  8. condon84

    condon84 Rookie

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    I'll add this regarding our defense:

    I like what I saw out of Guyton today. It wasn't perfect, but he made some plays and he held his own.

    Our secondary has been playing pretty well. Aside from the long pass that Wilhite gave up by missing the tackle, they play pretty well. On the long drives by the Jets, they were left hanging by the lack of pass rush.

    No pass rush + zone coverage = automatic first down.

    Very frustrating to watch our read and react defense and then to watch an attack style defense of the Jets.

    The times we did attack we had some good results. We have the athletes for it. It was a mistake in the beginning of the second half to play read and react and let Sanchez get into a rhythm. We should have applied pressure on the rooking QB.

    I'm sick of watching our defense play bend but don't break. It worked when our secondary could grab and hold onto WRs and let our pass rush develop, but since they made the "no contact beyond 5 yards" a point of emphasis, our defense has not been championship caliber because our zones get eaten up with no pass rush. It's painful to watch our DL rush the passer. And it's really not all on them. It's extremely difficult to first read the play, then rush the passer. By the time they read the play, the offensive lineman has them already engaged. It really isn't all that fair for the defense to think they can legitimately create a pass rush in 5 seconds if they have to read and react. If you look at the Jets' defense, they pick a gap and attack that gap at the snap of the ball. It gives the defense more opportunity to make plays and dictate.
  9. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's been ignored from the moment Brady put the Patriots ahead in that game.
  10. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'd have to agree with a lot of this. I think we have plenty of talent in terms of personnel. But I'm not at all happy with our defensive playcalling and overall approach (or with the offense either, for that matter).
  11. reflexblue

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    I thought the defense played well, especially against the run but the lack of getting pressure on the QB is going to kill them it it continues.

    Brady and the offense are really out of sync, Brady is thrwoing the ball to high, to low, in front, or behind the reciever, at times hes just throws it to hard. Today the recievers seem to drop a lot of balls, either because they were having a bad day or because of where Tom was throwing them made it more difficult.

    Like others i noticed that even when he had plenty of time (and he did on lots of occasions today) he still was of the mark. I've seen him like this before (usually in the begining of the game) but come out of it as the game wore on.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2009
  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm thrilled with Vollmer and Levoir as the #3 and #4 OT's - that's the best depth we've had at OT since BB took over. Kaczur seems reasonably solid. Matt Light has been the biggest disappointment at OT so far this season.
  13. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Reflecting on the Seymour trade i'm starting to think i would rather have had Seymour for this season. Then let him go and get a third rnd pick next year, rather than trading him for a first rounder two years down the road.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2009
  14. MoLewisrocks

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    Listening to Sports Extra and apparently there was a lot of chatter about receivers not making the proper blitz adjustments on their routes and the coaches not making adjustments based on the JETS seemingly knowing, or doing a heck of a job consistently guessing which play was coming out of what set. That all probably has something to do with all the new faces having not nearly mastered the entire playbook. And then BB detailing that the first series of the second half was what cost them the game on defense. Two plays where they had the ideal coverage only the safety and corner collided on the 45 yarder and McGowan guessed wrong on the TD.

    So one mental and one physical error on defense and struggling physically with protections and mentally with blitz adjustments on offense.

    The hubris here is almlost comical.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2009
  15. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As do others, I expect Light to be traded after this season. All the other OT's are potential starters at LT.

  16. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Count me as one of them. I expect Vollmer to be our starting LT next year, with Kaczur at Rt and LeVoir as the swing tackle. Some on this board would like to see us draft an OT in the first round next year, but if Vollmer continues to look like a legitimate LT then I think we are more likely to draft a mid-round developmental guy as a 4th OT.
  17. SVN

    SVN Rookie

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    yesterday brian billick illustrated on NFLN thats its very very difficult to screen a rex ryan coached defense because of their overloaded and unbalanced blitzes. its not the sameas the eagles.
  18. condon84

    condon84 Rookie

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    Frankly, I think our defense can still be pretty good without Seymour. I just think we need to be more aggressive. The calls that Pees made and allowed our defense to be aggressive have been positive plays. Whether it's pressure from LBs or our DL, when they attack, I think they have done a good job. Only when they have to read and react has the opponent taken advantage of us. Of course, it'd be nice to have Seymour in our defense, but I think we can manage with what we have. We just need to look at our strenghts (speed and athleticism) and use them to our advantage.
  19. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I guess my memory wasn't working back then huh? :rolleyes: For the record, I was talking about on this forum. But your comment in itself says enough.

    He did for a half. Before that, he looked exactly like what he did today. I haven't made excuses for the OL. I don't think they played a good game at all and have said so. But there were times in that game where Brady didn't have anyone in his face and only had pressure coming at him from the sides and STILL didn't step into his throws. They were way off. It's not like Brady has never been hit before. He has. And he used to step into his throws fully before when the pressure was in his face. That wasn't the case and the preseason and it hasn't been the case in two regular season games outside of 15 minutes in the first game. He still has a mental hurdle for the injury that needs to be cleared. That's obvious. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. That said, that 15 minutes in the Bills game tells me that he WILL clear that hurdle... it's just a matter of when.

    I watched the game. Maroney was practically a ghost after the first quarter and Taylor had 8 carries the entire game. With those 8 carries, he managed to rip off 46 yards. The Jets couldn't stop him between the tackles and it showed at the end of the first half. They all but abandoned that in the second half which is why Brady attempted 47 passes. Sorry, but you simply cannot win against a defense like the one the Jets have with your QB attempting 47 passes.

    I meant to say that they blitzed over 20 times in my original post. They did suck. However, Brady has bailed his O-Line out before time and time again. He couldn't do it today because of what I have previously mentioned. Brady has been under more pressure in the past than he has today. The only difference is that today Brady's mechanics were off. The fact that they still called 47 pass plays shows me that the play calling was also terrible. As BB said, it was a loss at all levels today.

    Brady has had many defenders in his face before. Why is today all of the sudden different? Again, his mechanics are off. You can see it when he throws. On two instances, if his mechanics and timing were good we would have had TDs. The first was the throw to Edelman which was way outside. Edelman had NO SHOT at that one. The second was the deep pass to Galloway. Galloway had burned Sheppard at first and if Brady's timing was down, that would have been a TD. Instead, Brady didn't throw the ball when he should have and Lito Sheppard caught up. The deep pass to Moss was bad in that it was thrown into double coverage, however, I do agree that Moss could have done more to try to catch that one.

    Sanchez attempted a whole five passes in the first half and the Jets were a one dimensional offense. If the Jets coaching staff puts the ball in the hands of Sanchez in the first half as much as they did in the second half, that offense would have easily put up more than 16 points.
  20. condon84

    condon84 Rookie

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    There is a way to beat a Rex Ryan defense. Pittsburgh employs a trips formation that Rex couldn't figure out while he was in Baltimore. One of the most memorable games last year was the second game between the Ravens and Steelers. The Steelers were down with under two minutes left and needed a touchdown. They had 90 yards to go and Ben marched them down for the winning TD with no time left on the clock. The Ravens didn't play prevent but they couldn't figure out the trips formation that the Steelers kept running at them.

    Our WRs are better than the Steelers. We have a better QB. I'd like to think our coaching staff is better. Why we couldn't figure out this defense or have a better plan coming in to this game, who knows.
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