Thoughts on the game and a good, long look at this team...

[mgteich]

No it didn't happen this game, but since the defense had so many problems, apparently many thought that the defense should have held the jets to six and won the ball game.

With regard to Seymour, while I certainly would much rather undo the deal, the downside has been less than what I expected, at least for the first two games.

One need not be exclusive of the other, as you well know. As for limiting the Jets to 6 points, what year did that happen? It certainly didn't happen in this week's game.

 

[mayoclinic]

i'm sure dante is really happy with vollmer. but we could have drafted Oher, Butler AND Vollmer. I really didn't see the point in drafting Chung at the expense of protecting Brady. Belichick has been pulling this same stuff - not drafting OL early in the draft - for the past several years. Does he really think Mankins, Light, etc. are what they were in 2004? That OL has remained the same forever.

Mankins certainly isn't a shadow of himself in 2004, when he was a college junior. 40% of starting OL (Mankins and Kaczur) weren't on the SB teams.

We could have drafted Oher at 23, Beatty or Britten at 34, Vollmer at 58, etc. etc. Maybe the FO didn't draft Oher for a reason - such as the widespread belief that he is a bit on the (mentally) slow side and might have trouble picking up the Pats' complex playbook, or concerns that he was inconsistent and prone to mental lapses. Of course, we may have made a mistake by passing on him - only time will tell. But I assume the FO had their reasons. Others wanted Maualuga, Laurinaitis, Barwin, etc.

I was personally a bit surprised that we took Chung at 34 - I didn't have him ranked that high. Then everyone started jumping on the Chung bandwagon and anointing him "the next Rodney". That was probably unrealistic. But BB obviously felt that the secondary was the biggest area of concern last offseason, and so far his moves have looked good. There's no reason to suppose that Chung won't eventually develop into a quality complement to Meriweather and be a long-term key component of the defense.

 

[Kontradiction]

Anyone who's satisfied with Vollmer and LeVoir as OT improvements at this point should probably quit following football immediately, given that neither is anything approaching an improvement over either starting tackle as of right now, and neither is yet starter material. As for the Oher deal, your argument is misleading, as most "choose only one" arguments about the draft tend to be. The team could have made moves to get those players if it was truly believed that they were worth getting.

No moves needed. Oher pretty much fell into their laps in the first round. The Pats, for some odd reason, didn't feel that the OL needed to be upgraded. The OL was one of the biggest weaknesses on the team going into the 2008 season and it showed. What do the Pats do to address it? Draft a work in progress outside of the first round that probably won't have any impact on the OL right away, which is what was needed. So, again, the OL was one of the two biggest weaknesses on the team again going into the 2009 season. The first two games have proved that and I suspect that John Abraham is licking his chops at this point.

 

[Kontradiction]

No it didn't happen this game, but since the defense had so many problems, apparently many thought that the defense should have held the jets to six and won the ball game.

With regard to Seymour, while I certainly would much rather undo the deal, the downside has been less than what I expected, at least for the first two games.

mgteich, if the Jets had put ANY trust whatsoever in Sanchez in the first half, they would have hung more than 20 on us. The fact that Sanchez threw the ball a whole five times in the first half made them one dimensional and easy to stifle. In the second half, they put the ball almost squarely in his hands and look what happened. The defense got lucky today. Next week won't be the case as the Falcons don't have any reservations about putting the ball in Matt Ryan's hands. And he is very, very capable.

 

[mgteich]

I have no reason to believe that Vollmer will not be at least as good in the offense as the Oher might have been. In any case, dante certainly didn't see the need for an immediate change at OT.

I was certainly not happy that we did not draft an OT with the 34th pick, after we made some fine trades with the 23. However, as far as OT is concerned, I am absolutely fine with our current four OT's.

Mankins certainly isn't a shadow of himself in 2004, when he was a college junior. 40% of starting OL (Mankins and Kaczur) weren't on the SB teams.

We could have drafted Oher at 23, Beatty or Britten at 34, Vollmer at 58, etc. etc. Maybe the FO didn't draft Oher for a reason - such as the widespread belief that he is a bit on the (mentally) slow side and might have trouble picking up the Pats' complex playbook, or concerns that he was inconsistent and prone to mental lapses. Of course, we may have made a mistake by passing on him - only time will tell. But I assume the FO had their reasons. Others wanted Maualuga, Laurinaitis, Barwin, etc.

I was personally a bit surprised that we took Chung at 34 - I didn't have him ranked that high. Then everyone started jumping on the Chung bandwagon and anointing him "the next Rodney". That was probably unrealistic. But BB obviously felt that the secondary was the biggest area of concern last offseason, and so far his moves have looked good. There's no reason to suppose that Chung won't eventually develop into a quality complement to Meriweather and be a long-term key component of the defense.

 

[Deus Irae]

No it didn't happen this game, but since the defense had so many problems, apparently many thought that the defense should have held the jets to six and won the ball game.

With regard to Seymour, while I certainly would much rather undo the deal, the downside has been less than what I expected, at least for the first two games.

Well, you seem happier than I. I see a team that simply cannot get pressure with 4. That's an absolutely enormous downside that could have cost the team in week 1 and certainly contributed to the loss in week 2. Frankly, I'm surprised that you consider that to be less than you expected.

 

[Kontradiction]

Let's also remember that the defense was bailed out time and time again in Week 1 by Buffalo shooting themselves in the foot with costly penalties. If Buffalo doesn't do that, we're easily 0-2 at this point.

 

[condon84]

I'll add this regarding our defense:

I like what I saw out of Guyton today. It wasn't perfect, but he made some plays and he held his own.

Our secondary has been playing pretty well. Aside from the long pass that Wilhite gave up by missing the tackle, they play pretty well. On the long drives by the Jets, they were left hanging by the lack of pass rush.

No pass rush + zone coverage = automatic first down.

Very frustrating to watch our read and react defense and then to watch an attack style defense of the Jets.

The times we did attack we had some good results. We have the athletes for it. It was a mistake in the beginning of the second half to play read and react and let Sanchez get into a rhythm. We should have applied pressure on the rooking QB.

I'm sick of watching our defense play bend but don't break. It worked when our secondary could grab and hold onto WRs and let our pass rush develop, but since they made the "no contact beyond 5 yards" a point of emphasis, our defense has not been championship caliber because our zones get eaten up with no pass rush. It's painful to watch our DL rush the passer. And it's really not all on them. It's extremely difficult to first read the play, then rush the passer. By the time they read the play, the offensive lineman has them already engaged. It really isn't all that fair for the defense to think they can legitimately create a pass rush in 5 seconds if they have to read and react. If you look at the Jets' defense, they pick a gap and attack that gap at the snap of the ball. It gives the defense more opportunity to make plays and dictate.

 

[Deus Irae]

Let's also remember that the defense was bailed out time and time again in Week 1 by Buffalo shooting themselves in the foot with costly penalties. If Buffalo doesn't do that, we're easily 0-2 at this point.

That's been ignored from the moment Brady put the Patriots ahead in that game.

 

[mayoclinic]

No pass rush + zone coverage = automatic first down.

Very frustrating to watch our read and react defense and then to watch an attack style defense of the Jets.

The times we did attack we had some good results. We have the athletes for it. It was a mistake in the beginning of the second half to play read and react and let Sanchez get into a rhythm. We should have applied pressure on the rooking QB.

I'm sick of watching our defense play bend but don't break. It worked when our secondary could grab and hold onto WRs and let our pass rush develop, but since they made the "no contact beyond 5 yards" a point of emphasis, our defense has not been championship caliber because our zones get eaten up with no pass rush.

I'd have to agree with a lot of this. I think we have plenty of talent in terms of personnel. But I'm not at all happy with our defensive playcalling and overall approach (or with the offense either, for that matter).

 

[reflexblue]

I thought the defense played well, especially against the run but the lack of getting pressure on the QB is going to kill them it it continues.

Brady and the offense are really out of sync, Brady is thrwoing the ball to high, to low, in front, or behind the reciever, at times hes just throws it to hard. Today the recievers seem to drop a lot of balls, either because they were having a bad day or because of where Tom was throwing them made it more difficult.

Like others i noticed that even when he had plenty of time (and he did on lots of occasions today) he still was of the mark. I've seen him like this before (usually in the begining of the game) but come out of it as the game wore on.

 

[mayoclinic]

I have no reason to believe that Vollmer will not be at least as good in the offense as the Oher might have been. In any case, dante certainly didn't see the need for an immediate change at OT.

I was certainly not happy that we did not draft an OT with the 34th pick, after we made some fine trades with the 23. However, as far as OT is concerned, I am absolutely fine with our current four OT's.

I'm thrilled with Vollmer and Levoir as the #3 and #4 OT's - that's the best depth we've had at OT since BB took over. Kaczur seems reasonably solid. Matt Light has been the biggest disappointment at OT so far this season.

 

[reflexblue]

Reflecting on the Seymour trade i'm starting to think i would rather have had Seymour for this season. Then let him go and get a third rnd pick next year, rather than trading him for a first rounder two years down the road.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Note to mods: Ian told me to repost this.

I honestly can't remember the last time I saw the team as a whole look as pathetic as they did today. And, when you read this, keep in mind that I have a long history on this forum and those that know me don't generally know me to be a "Chicken Little". There just didn't seem to be any heart from top to bottom. Here are my thoughts:

You were in HS when Tommy won those three rings...that's your long history...

1. Brady: If he keeps playing scared like he did today and last week, it's going to be a long season for us. I had actually made a thread in the preseason detailing my concerns about how he wasn't stepping into his throws all the way and looked skiddish in the pocket and had it dismissed by others who quickly reminded me that, "it's the preseason". Too true. It's just too bad those concerns translated into the regular season. Tommy came out last week and immediately pulled the same stunt. His mechanics bordered on horrible. Sure, he was pressured at times. But even at times which he wasn't pressured, he seemed to be hurring his throws and not stepping fully into a pass. For some reason, that stopped in the 4th quarter. Jaws was kind enough to point out to us that Brady began stepping into his throws and, when that happened, we were able to drive effortlessly down the field which Brady comfortably making throws within and outside of 15 yards. Today, he just didn't seem to carry that 4th quarter confidence over with him and again looked rusty. From beginning to the end he never seemed comfortable and, even during times when the pressure wasn't there, didn't fully step into throws and/or hurried them. It's very obvious that the mental hurdle for Brady is still a very tall one and our offensive line doesn't seem to be helping him out that much. Hopefully he can get his act together because the season doesn't appear to get any easier with match-ups against Atlanta and Baltimore coming up.

Brady isn't scared, he's frustrated. Brady cleared the mental hurdles last week. Unfortunately this OL hasn't cleared a hurdle in over a year.

Coaching: I was absolutely bewildered today at our near complete abandonment of the run... again. When we first brought in Freddy Taylor to run with Maroney, Faulk, and Morris, my original thoughts were that we were going to lean heavily on the running game in the beginning of the year until Tommy gets his bearings again. Well, again today, it turned out I was wrong. Simply put, Brady cannot attempt 47 passes in a game against a Rex Ryan defense with the way he was playing today and still expect to win. During the times when we DID go with the running game, I thought Taylor and LoMo looked great... especially coming out of draw plays. However, there were just too many series where the ball was put into Brady's hands, and he just simply wasn't ready to lead us for the whole game. At the end of the first half, we were beginning to break off good chunks of yardage for every running play we called. Why we didn't go with that formula in the second half is beyond me. Just bad coaching there.

Take a closer look at the stats and you will see that absent a couple of nice runs apiece for Taylor and Maroney, the run game wasn't getting much yardage - particularly when all we needed was a couple...

Offensive Line: The OL did a good job of not allowing Brady to get sacked, but you can probably contribute that to Brady getting rid of the ball quickly when it looked like the sack was coming instead of the O-Line. In all, Brady was pressured pretty much all day despite under 20 blitzes being called by the Jets defense. He was hit time and time again and was hit hard. If he continues taking that kind of abuse, he will be injured by season's end. Those of us that called for the team to draft Ryan Clady in the wake of the 2007 season and Oher in the wake of the 2008 season are wondering why not. The pass protection has GOT to improve because this Jets team isn't going to be the only team we see this season that is going to bring the heat on Brady. The one thing the OL did good today was run block. However, like I said, the running game just wasn't used effectively enough to take advantage of that.

29 times they blitzed, 15 hurries and 5 knock downs on 40 odd attempts says the OL sucked. If the running game was successful they'd use it. Why carry 5 RB otherwise...

WRs: This unit was clearly hurting by the loss of Welker. I know I'm not alone, but I wish him a speedy recovery. Lord knows that we're going to need his services in the next two weeks. Edelman did look great today and, despite the *****ing and moaning of those on the Galloway hate train, Joey caught 5 balls for 53 yards. Not all that bad. However, neither of them can do what Wes does. Because of Wes, the defense is forced to commit to coverage underneath which takes the heat off of Moss. With Welker out, the Jets' defense keyed in on Moss and all but completely took him out of the game. By the way, Galloway shouldn't take flak for that would-be touchdown. He was open but Brady threw the ball too late. Edelman also would have had a touchdown as well had the ball not been thrown away from him. All in all, I wasn't terribly impressed by the play of the WRs today, but they are getting way too much flak thrown their way for the loss. When Welker gets back, I think we'll see the passing game that we're all accustomed to. I would also love to see Edelman become the other slot receiver on the other side of Welker. That would be one very dangerous passing game with those two operating underneath along with Watson and Baker.

Unless you know the route tree and depths and adjustments you can't begin to analyze who made what mistake in the passing game. Brady is throwing to a spot, not a player. But given his track record, my gut instinct is the receivers were off more often than the QB and some of his throws were rushed because HE HAD DEFENDERS IN HIS FACE. And Randy Moss struggles to beat single coverage consistently and has for a year now as well. Not that it matters when the QB's dont have time to throw deep and he fails to make the play when they do. Two slot receivers and no effective deep threat...might get a little crowded underneath... But other than that spot on...

Defense: Clearly we are missing the presence that Seymour brought to this team. The push that used to come off of his side of the line has been non-existant in the first two games so far. With that said, I thought that the defense did a good enough job with what they were asked to do today. They contained the Jesters running game and kept Washington and Jones within check. However, the coaching staff needs to realize that more pressure has to come from the linebackers at times. We cannot simply rely on that four man rush coming from the line against a good OL like the one the Jets have. Today, that four man rush simply wasn't getting to Sanchez and he ate us for lunch. When BB finally decided to mess around with some blitzes, we got pressure and hit Sanchez (the one by TBC stands out). I know that if you live by the blitz, you die by the blitz. I understand that. However, if we don't blitz against a good OL, we don't get to the QB. It's as simple as that.

Sanchez completed 14 passes all day. Two forced fumbles in the first series. 3 points in the first half. He was sacked twice. He got a short field to open the second half and the defense made two mistakes in that series and paid the price. Aside from that ugly ugliness, they held them to 3 FG's.

Special Teams: Do I even have to say anything here. Just wow. I know Leon Washington is dangerous but wow...

Penalties: We shot outselves in the foot time and time again with needless penalties. Since BB has been coaching this team, I cannot remember the last time we got two delay of game penalties... IN A ROW. The holding and false start penalties were costly. We just didn't play smart, Bill Belichick football today and we payed for it.

Final thoughts: I know it's against the law around here to go against Tommy and agree with Jets fans, but those of you whining and complaining about the Jet fans chanting "Brady sucks" need to take a step back. They were right. Brady did suck today. However, he will get better. All athletes have a mental hurdle they need to climb after a serious injury and Brady's is going to be bigger because he was considered Iron Man before his injury and the injury didn't occur until later in his career. But, rest assured, he will start stepping into this throws down the line. When he gets back to his old self, Welker gets back, and Mayo gets back, this team will be very VERY dangerous. Hopefully Tommy and Wes can take steps into those directions quickly because we have a tough test coming up in Atlanta.

Listening to Sports Extra and apparently there was a lot of chatter about receivers not making the proper blitz adjustments on their routes and the coaches not making adjustments based on the JETS seemingly knowing, or doing a heck of a job consistently guessing which play was coming out of what set. That all probably has something to do with all the new faces having not nearly mastered the entire playbook. And then BB detailing that the first series of the second half was what cost them the game on defense. Two plays where they had the ideal coverage only the safety and corner collided on the 45 yarder and McGowan guessed wrong on the TD.

So one mental and one physical error on defense and struggling physically with protections and mentally with blitz adjustments on offense.

The hubris here is almlost comical.

 

[mgteich]

As do others, I expect Light to be traded after this season. All the other OT's are potential starters at LT.

I'm thrilled with Vollmer and Levoir as the #3 and #4 OT's - that's the best depth we've had at OT since BB took over. Kaczur seems reasonably solid. Matt Light has been the biggest disappointment at OT so far this season.

 

[mayoclinic]

As do others, I expect Light to be traded after this season. All the other OT's are potential starters at LT.

Count me as one of them. I expect Vollmer to be our starting LT next year, with Kaczur at Rt and LeVoir as the swing tackle. Some on this board would like to see us draft an OT in the first round next year, but if Vollmer continues to look like a legitimate LT then I think we are more likely to draft a mid-round developmental guy as a 4th OT.

 

[SVN]

I'll add this regarding the play calls:

The Jets were extremely aggressive getting after Tom and I thought the best way to slow down their pass rush was to call a few screens. Yet none was ever called. I remember when the screen was a staple of Weiss' offense in NE.

The lack of creativity with our offense is disturbing. We ran some kind of draw/counter play to some success (a few holding calls negated some of those nice runs). And I thought if we had some other variation of that play, we could have taken advantage of the defense because in the second half, the Jets were looking for that play.

Lastly, I hate to say it, but Brady sucked today.

yesterday brian billick illustrated on NFLN thats its very very difficult to screen a rex ryan coached defense because of their overloaded and unbalanced blitzes. its not the sameas the eagles.

 

[condon84]

Frankly, I think our defense can still be pretty good without Seymour. I just think we need to be more aggressive. The calls that Pees made and allowed our defense to be aggressive have been positive plays. Whether it's pressure from LBs or our DL, when they attack, I think they have done a good job. Only when they have to read and react has the opponent taken advantage of us. Of course, it'd be nice to have Seymour in our defense, but I think we can manage with what we have. We just need to look at our strenghts (speed and athleticism) and use them to our advantage.

 

[Kontradiction]

You were in HS when Tommy won those three rings...that's your long history...

I guess my memory wasn't working back then huh? For the record, I was talking about on this forum. But your comment in itself says enough.

Brady isn't scared, he's frustrated. Brady cleared the mental hurdles last week. Unfortunately this OL hasn't cleared a hurdle in over a year.

He did for a half. Before that, he looked exactly like what he did today. I haven't made excuses for the OL. I don't think they played a good game at all and have said so. But there were times in that game where Brady didn't have anyone in his face and only had pressure coming at him from the sides and STILL didn't step into his throws. They were way off. It's not like Brady has never been hit before. He has. And he used to step into his throws fully before when the pressure was in his face. That wasn't the case and the preseason and it hasn't been the case in two regular season games outside of 15 minutes in the first game. He still has a mental hurdle for the injury that needs to be cleared. That's obvious. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. That said, that 15 minutes in the Bills game tells me that he WILL clear that hurdle... it's just a matter of when.

Take a closer look at the stats and you will see that absent a couple of nice runs apiece for Taylor and Maroney, the run game wasn't getting much yardage - particularly when all we needed was a couple...

I watched the game. Maroney was practically a ghost after the first quarter and Taylor had 8 carries the entire game. With those 8 carries, he managed to rip off 46 yards. The Jets couldn't stop him between the tackles and it showed at the end of the first half. They all but abandoned that in the second half which is why Brady attempted 47 passes. Sorry, but you simply cannot win against a defense like the one the Jets have with your QB attempting 47 passes.

29 times they blitzed, 15 hurries and 5 knock downs on 40 odd attempts says the OL sucked. If the running game was successful they'd use it. Why carry 5 RB otherwise...

I meant to say that they blitzed over 20 times in my original post. They did suck. However, Brady has bailed his O-Line out before time and time again. He couldn't do it today because of what I have previously mentioned. Brady has been under more pressure in the past than he has today. The only difference is that today Brady's mechanics were off. The fact that they still called 47 pass plays shows me that the play calling was also terrible. As BB said, it was a loss at all levels today.

Unless you know the route tree and depths and adjustments you can't begin to analyze who made what mistake in the passing game. Brady is throwing to a spot, not a player. But given his track record, my gut instinct is the receivers were off more often than the QB and some of his throws were rushed because HE HAD DEFENDERS IN HIS FACE. And Randy Moss struggles to beat single coverage consistently and has for a year now as well. Not that it matters when the QB's dont have time to throw deep and he fails to make the play when they do. Two slot receivers and no effective deep threat...might get a little crowded underneath... But other than that spot on...

Brady has had many defenders in his face before. Why is today all of the sudden different? Again, his mechanics are off. You can see it when he throws. On two instances, if his mechanics and timing were good we would have had TDs. The first was the throw to Edelman which was way outside. Edelman had NO SHOT at that one. The second was the deep pass to Galloway. Galloway had burned Sheppard at first and if Brady's timing was down, that would have been a TD. Instead, Brady didn't throw the ball when he should have and Lito Sheppard caught up. The deep pass to Moss was bad in that it was thrown into double coverage, however, I do agree that Moss could have done more to try to catch that one.

Sanchez completed 14 passes all day. Two forced fumbles in the first series. 3 points in the first half. He was sacked twice. He got a short field to open the second half and the defense made twp mistakes in that series and paid the price. Aside from that ugly ugliness, they held them to 3 FG's.

Sanchez attempted a whole five passes in the first half and the Jets were a one dimensional offense. If the Jets coaching staff puts the ball in the hands of Sanchez in the first half as much as they did in the second half, that offense would have easily put up more than 16 points.

 

[condon84]

yesterday brian billick illustrated on NFLN thats its very very difficult to screen a rex ryan coached defense because of their overloaded and unbalanced blitzes. its not the sameas the eagles.

There is a way to beat a Rex Ryan defense. Pittsburgh employs a trips formation that Rex couldn't figure out while he was in Baltimore. One of the most memorable games last year was the second game between the Ravens and Steelers. The Steelers were down with under two minutes left and needed a touchdown. They had 90 yards to go and Ben marched them down for the winning TD with no time left on the clock. The Ravens didn't play prevent but they couldn't figure out the trips formation that the Steelers kept running at them.

Our WRs are better than the Steelers. We have a better QB. I'd like to think our coaching staff is better. Why we couldn't figure out this defense or have a better plan coming in to this game, who knows.