Thought experiment: If the Lions coughed up #1 for Cassel

[Box_O_Rocks]

I guess it's kind of like a silly, unrealistic thread asking "which limb would you give up if you had to feed a barracuda?" The natural instinct is to look for loopholes. E.g.: pass on the pick and be prepared to jump in later, a la the Minnesota Vikings.

Well my natural instinct is to take the shiny things off and leave them for the barracuda while I casually went looking for a ride home.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Without trying to take this thread off-topic, your post echos what I've been thinking for the last four years or so, and that is having the #1 overall pick - or a top 5 pick for that matter - hurts your team in the long run. Allow me to explain:

If you're a team picking in the top 5 of the draft (Detroit, St. Louis, KC, Seattle & Cleveland this year) you generally have several holes to fill on your roster before being competitive again. Having said that, you're now saddled with having to tie up a large percentage of your salary cap into one player. So not only did you address just one position, you have to take care of the rest with 10% less salary cap room. Heaven forbid you draft a bust.

On the flip side, if you're a team picking in the 20's or 30's (let's say for example: The New England Patriots ). They have far fewer holes in their roster that need to be addressed than a team picking in the top 5 does. Not only are the Patriots going to get a quality prospect @ #24, but they're only going to tie up roughly 2 million dollars in annual salary to this player, leaving them cap space needed for extensions and free agency. If they draft someone @ 24 that doesn't pan out, it's not as crippling to their salary cap as if he were the first overall pick.

Sorry for taking this slightly OT, but if anyone else has input on this I'd love to hear it.

I said this last year, and I'll say it again. The sweet spot of the draft, as the rookie salaries are currently done, appears to be between picks 10-20. You get a very good talent at that position and you don't have to commit nearly as much money. Now #24 is not that bad a drafting position, but it does mean that your chances of landing a top talent drop, depending on how other teams rate theirs prospects compared to you. Mayo is very affordable and it looks like he is going to be a building block of the D for years to come. If we had the #1 pick, I'd look to trade down to #10-20 area, although finding takers is another problem entirely.

I think Cassel will get a 1st rounder, just not an early 1st, but we should be able to get a quality player considering our drafting history in the 1st round...

 

[PatsSox363804]

After yesterdays game, if we are able to trade Cassel at the Draft I'd say Minnesota is the most likely destination. I wouldn't want the #1 overall, if we can't trade out of it or down far enough it could screw the cap.

 

[Synovia]

although finding takers is another problem entirely.

No, its not. Finding takers at the value listed on the draft value chart is a problem. There are plenty of teams that are willing to move up, they're just not willing to pay "face value" to do it. The fact that you're not going to get "face value" doesn't mean it is a bad move to do it.

The problem is, most GMs seem to feel like they're "being had" if they don't get all their value points

 

[Synovia]

My right leg. Since shredding my hip muscles, it doesn't function very well anyway. And it couldn't hurt any more than it does now.

In terms of the #1, I think you would have to take the most unique player in the draft, regardless of talking headery. I'm thinking probably Cody, freeing us up to let Wilfork walk after '09, or trading him for a #1 pick in an upcoming year.

Wilfork is one of the best NTs in the game. The chances of Cody being as good, let alone better, are very remote.

 

[dryheat44]

Wilfork is one of the best NTs in the game. The chances of Cody being as good, let alone better, are very remote.

And as one of the very best NTs in the game, Wilfork's extension is not going to be easily accomplished...especially given the tampering that exists if Vince gets near free agency. Saban will give Belichick the inside dope, but most scouts' takes I've read say that Cody is a day-one starter at NT.

Since we don't need a franchise QB (if one was even available), for this hypothetical exercise, the "planet theory" is the way to go. There are very few people on the planet as big and athletic as Cody. If forced to draft #1, go for the unique player. Worst case scenario is you have two very good nose tackles. And Wilfork can always move out to DE in the case Seymour is gone.

The only other option is if Lawrence Taylor or John Hannah are in this draft, and I don't think they are.

 

[VJCPatriot]

The only other option is if Lawrence Taylor or John Hannah are in this draft, and I don't think they are.

I'd settle for Demarcus Ware.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

And as one of the very best NTs in the game, Wilfork's extension is not going to be easily accomplished...especially given the tampering that exists if Vince gets near free agency. Saban will give Belichick the inside dope, but most scouts' takes I've read say that Cody is a day-one starter at NT.

Since we don't need a franchise QB (if one was even available), for this hypothetical exercise, the "planet theory" is the way to go. There are very few people on the planet as big and athletic as Cody. If forced to draft #1, go for the unique player. Worst case scenario is you have two very good nose tackles. And Wilfork can always move out to DE in the case Seymour is gone.

The only other option is if Lawrence Taylor or John Hannah are in this draft, and I don't think they are.

After Cody's girlfriend hacked into his facebook account and posted that he was coming out after the season, he publically stated he was coming back to Alabama for his senior season.

He looked pitiful after the knee injury, but before the knee injury, he was an unmovable beast.

I would take him in the first round in a skinny minute. Sit him behind Wilfork and give him a year with Woicik to get stronger and a bit leaner.

If Cody stays at Alabama, I do not see another defensive player worthy of a 1st round pick for our defense.

I do like Tyson Jackson, if Wright walks, however I think we can get him in the second. Bobby Greenwood of Alabama would be a later round option as well, especially after two years with Saban.

 

[BradyManny]

If Cody stays at Alabama, I do not see another defensive player worthy of a 1st round pick for our defense.

Really? What about Curry, Spikes, Moore, any of those guys seem like decent fits?

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I think Cassel will get a 1st rounder, just not an early 1st, but we should be able to get a quality player considering our drafting history in the 1st round...

Detroit also has the #20 pick from Dallas in the Roy Williams trade which I would do in a heartbeat if I were the Pats FO....Good value but not overpaying and the Lions can use the #1 overall for a LT to protect Matt's blind side ala the Dolphins and Long........

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: Detroits #1 pick in the draft?

OK, I'll play!

#23 Brandon Spikes, ILB, Florida
#24 Troy Kropog, OT, Tulane

Hmm, even I don't believe that. But heck, it's just January. I get to change my mind a couple of dozen times before April, right?

I'll play too:

#23 Brandon Spikes, ILB, Florida (alternate: Greg Hardy, DE/OLB Mississippi)
#24 William Moore, FS/SS, Missouri

Add Connor Barwin in the second round and a mid-range FA CB such as Greer, Robinson, or McFadden, and the defense would be completely rebuilt.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Detroits #1 pick in the draft?

sorry if i havent responded to some of you guys posts, but i cant post here without my posts being moderated, so my responses may not show up.

Anyways i was thinking if we had the #1 pick in the draft who would we take?

If we franchise Cassel we could then trade him to Detroit along with our 1st round pick #24 for Detroits #1 pick. We may have to add in a 2nd or 3rd but the foundation of the deal would be Cassel plus our #24 pick. Detroit may not want to pick a QB #1, they might not want to have to pay #1 pick money to anyone, they might like the idea of trading down and picking up another 1st and a proven QB in Cassel, but who knows its just an idea. We could also dangle Cassel as trade up bait plus our 1st rounder to move up to #10 pick San Francisco, that would probably be more ideal, but its fun to think of us having the #1 pick in the draft!

If we had the #1 id go with Maualuga or one of the big OT's.

1st off, the Patriots wouldn't make the trade for the #1 over-all pick. None of the players, ESPECIALLY Maualuga, are worth the financial investment that would be required.

The Patriots have the ability to add quality AND quantity. If they were to trade Cassel to the Lions, the two scenarios that would be best, IMHO, would be the following:

Option 1) The Pats receive the Dallas 1st round pick and Detroit's 3rd round pick this year

Option 2) The Patriots receive Detroit's 2nd round pick this year and Detroit's 2nd round pick next year with the potential for that 2nd rounder to become a 1st rounder depending on how Cassel performed.

That is the only way I'd consider trading Cassel to the Lions because the other way hurts the Patriots in the long run.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Detroits #1 pick in the draft?

For the first pick in the 2009 draft the Lions will go for a WR, book it.

Martin Mayhew is the new GM there. I think that, if he were to draft a WR, the Detroit Fans would burn down the stadium..

Lets not damn him just because his initials are the same as the psycho they got rid of.

 

[DaBruinz]

Offensive Tackle is way too DEEP a Position this year to think such a thought. With the incredible dept at the position you just wouldn't make that move. I wouldn't want the #1 overall from Detriot to take a Offensive Tackle. I would prefer their selection from Dallas and i think BB would too. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Detriot would be interested in Cassel.

While there is depth at OT, you seem to be under the misguided interpretation that its all 1st round depth or something. Its not.

That being said, I don't see the Patriots making a trade that would bring them the #1 over-all pick. There isn't anyone in the draft worth that sort of financial investment.

 

[DaBruinz]

My right leg. Since shredding my hip muscles, it doesn't function very well anyway. And it couldn't hurt any more than it does now.

In terms of the #1, I think you would have to take the most unique player in the draft, regardless of talking headery. I'm thinking probably Cody, freeing us up to let Wilfork walk after '09, or trading him for a #1 pick in an upcoming year.

I am pretty sure that Cody is returning for his senior year and not declaring.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Detroits #1 pick in the draft?

there's no way you're getting the #1 for a system qb

*ROFLMAO* Only an idiot would insinuate that being a "System QB" is a bad thing. I have news for you. Marino, Montana, and even your precious Dan Fouts were all "system" QBs.

However, I agree that they aren't getting the #1 overall for Cassel and a combination of picks because Belichick knows that its not worth it.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Detroits #1 pick in the draft?

*ROFLMAO* Only an idiot would insinuate that being a "System QB" is a bad thing. I have news for you. Marino, Montana, and even your precious Dan Fouts were all "system" QBs.

However, I agree that they aren't getting the #1 overall for Cassel and a combination of picks because Belichick knows that its not worth it.

Just remember--I did say that even I don't think it'll ever happen.

 

[jczxohn1]

Re: Detroits #1 pick in the draft?

Martin Mayhew is the new GM there. I think that, if he were to draft a WR, the Detroit Fans would burn down the stadium..

Lets not damn him just because his initials are the same as the psycho they got rid of.

Screw-ups like the Lions have been since Sanders left cannot be blamed on a coach. It's a disfunctional organization, much like the city it calls home.
Ex: see Oakland, Cincinnati, Cleveland....

I'd throw in the Jets, but at least they have the good sense to try to be a Patriots clone. Unfortunately, Parcells left and they lost the blueprint. Had to love the way Pioli/BB lite (Tannenbaum/Mangini) crashed with T. throwing M. under the bus after the Favre fiasco.

 

[thechris]

I've got to ask: you do know that #1 overall is looking at approx $32 million as a signing bonus, plus another $10-12 million/year for 5-6 years? I'm not trying to make fun of you, I just want to ensure you understood the price tag for that #1 overall Safety.

Yeah, I don't really know that many defensive players that are in the draft (I hear that Aaron Curry is supposed to be good) but I like what I've seen from Taylor Mays. So that's why I would pick him #1.

 

[jsull87]

with #1 we would just go best player available if we haaaaaaad to use it. i would say probs franchise LT then move light maket a good line better. thats if we had to use it