Thinking the Patriots didn’t do enough to give Brady weapons is a fallacy

[Brady6]

I keep hearing and reading about how the Patriots gave didn’t do enough to give Brady weapons on offense and I don’t think those who make that claim could be more false. The gold standard amongst the NFL for offensive weapons is the Denver Broncos and everyone points to how many weapons they gave Peyton Manning; let’s take a look at their weapons and how they acquired them compared to the weapons we acquired in that same period (2009-2013).

Denver Broncos
Draft Picks
• Knowshon Moreno – 12th overall pick in the 2009 draft.
• Demaryius Thomas – 22nd overall pick in the 2010 draft.
• Eric Decker – 87th overall pick in the 2010 draft.
• Julius Thomas – 129th overall pick in the 2011 draft.
• Ronnie Hillman – 67th overall pick in 2012 draft.
• Montee Ball – 58th overall pick in the 2013 draft.

Free Agents
• Andre Caldwell – UFA signed a 2 year/$1.8M contract in 2012.
• Jacob Tamme – UFA signed to a 3 year/$9M contract in 2012.
• Joel Dreessen – UFA signed to a 3 year/$8.5M contract in 2012.
• Wes Welker – UFA signed to 2 year/$12M contract in 2013.

Trade Acquisitions
• N/A

New England Patriots
Draft Picks
• Brandon Tate – 83rd overall pick in the 2009 draft.
• Julian Edelman – 232nd overall pick in the 2009 draft.
• Rob Gronkowski – 42nd overall pick in the 2010 draft and signed to a 6 year/$54M contract extension in 2012.
• Taylor Price – 90th overall pick in the 2010 draft.
• Aaron Hernandez – 113th overall pick in the 2010 draft and signed to a 5 year/$40M contract extension in 2012.
• Shane Vereen – 56th overall pick in the 2011 draft.
• Stevan Ridley – 73rd overall pick in the 2011 draft.
• Aaron Dobson – 59th overall pick in the 2013 draft.
• Josh Boyce – 102nd overall pick in the 2013 draft.

Free Agents
• Brandon Lloyd – UFA signed to a 3 year/$12M contract in 2012.
• Daniel Fells – UFA signed to a 3 year/$6M contract in 2012.
• Danny Amendola – UFA signed to a 5 year/$31M contract in 2013.
• Donald Jones – UFA signed to a 3 year/$3.2M contract in 2013.

Trade Acquisitions
• Chad Johnson - traded from the Bengals in 2012 for a 5th round draft pick.
• Greg Salas – traded from the Rams in 2012 for a conditional late round draft pick.
• LeGarrette Blount – traded from the Bucs in 2013 for Demps and a 7th round draft pick.

There is a big difference between something not working out and it never being attempted. The Patriots drafted 2 big time playmakers in 2011 in Gronkowski and Hernandez just like the Broncos drafted Thomas and Decker, the Patriots even extended them both which the Broncos did not do, the Broncos went out and signed a marquee slot receiver this past offseason in Welker, the Patriots did the same thing in fact the Patriots committed for longer and for more money than the Broncos did.

There were other players added during the time that I didn’t even account for by the Patriots and it is also worth noting the Patriots used 2 early draft picks on OT (Solder and Vollmer, the also resigned Vollmer to a 4 year/$12M contract) during the period to ensure Brady was protected.

Listen I get it things didn’t work out, Gronkowski has been burdened with injuries, Hernandez took the wrong path in life and Amendola suffered through injuries and did not live up to expectations but to suggest the Patriots didn’t invest in the offense enough is wrong, I would argue that the Patriots invested and positioned themselves to provide Brady with offensive weapons better than any team in the NFL and certainly better than the gold standard Denver Broncos.

 

[Efstratios]

Re: Thinking that the Patriots didn’t do enough to give Brady offensive weapons is a

Not to be a jerk, but there's a misspelling in your topic title.

But I concur that it is unfortunate that so many of our weapons have been sidelined/greatly hindered by injuries/made catastrophically stupid decisions.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Thinking that the Patriots didn’t do enough to give Brady offensive weapons is a

Not to be a jerk, but there's a misspelling in your topic title.

But I concur that it is unfortunate that so many of our weapons have been sidelined/greatly hindered by injuries/made catastrophically stupid decisions.

Thanks man it actually got cut off it was supposed to say fallacy. I corrected to.

 

[robbomango]

Re: Thinking that the Patriots didn’t do enough to give Brady offensive weapons is a

They'v surrounded TB with weapons and when they were healthy he ripped threw defenses like butter. We had one of the most bizarre off seasons imaginable and a lot of injuries.

 

[Rob0729]

I have been hearing on the radio (mostly by Felger) how Elway went out and gave Manning weapons, but I don't get it. Most of Manning's weapons were acquired by McDaniels in the draft. Both Thomases (although Julius was drafted after McDaniels), Decker, and Moreno were already in Denver before Manning got there.

All Elway added of any note were Welker and Ball. And Welker threw himself at Elway. Most of the other pick ups like Caldwell and Tamme have been minimal impact guys this year.

 

[Efstratios]

I keep hearing and reading about how the Patriots gave didn’t do enough to give Brady weapons on offense and I don’t think those who make that claim could be more false. The gold standard amongst the NFL for offensive weapons is the Denver Broncos and everyone points to how many weapons they gave Peyton Manning; let’s take a look at their weapons and how they acquired them compared to the weapons we acquired in that same period (2009-2013).

Denver Broncos
Draft Picks
• Knowshon Moreno – 12th overall pick in the 2009 draft.
• Demaryius Thomas – 22nd overall pick in the 2010 draft.
• Eric Decker – 87th overall pick in the 2010 draft.
• Julius Thomas – 129th overall pick in the 2011 draft.
• Ronnie Hillman – 67th overall pick in 2012 draft.
• Montee Ball – 58th overall pick in the 2013 draft.

Free Agents
• Andre Caldwell – UFA signed a 2 year/$1.8M contract in 2012.
• Jacob Tamme – UFA signed to a 3 year/$9M contract in 2012.
• Joel Dreessen – UFA signed to a 3 year/$8.5M contract in 2012.
• Wes Welker – UFA signed to 2 year/$12M contract in 2013.

Trade Acquisitions
• N/A

New England Patriots
Draft Picks
• Brandon Tate – 83rd overall pick in the 2009 draft.
• Julian Edelman – 232nd overall pick in the 2009 draft.
• Rob Gronkowski – 42nd overall pick in the 2010 draft and signed to a 6 year/$54M contract extension in 2012.
• Taylor Price – 90th overall pick in the 2010 draft.
• Aaron Hernandez – 113th overall pick in the 2010 draft and signed to a 5 year/$40M contract extension in 2012.
• Shane Vereen – 56th overall pick in the 2011 draft.
• Stevan Ridley – 73rd overall pick in the 2011 draft.
• Aaron Dobson – 59th overall pick in the 2013 draft.
• Josh Boyce – 102nd overall pick in the 2013 draft.

Free Agents
• Brandon Lloyd – UFA signed to a 3 year/$12M contract in 2012.
• Daniel Fells – UFA signed to a 3 year/$6M contract in 2012.
• Danny Amendola – UFA signed to a 5 year/$31M contract in 2013.
• Donald Jones – UFA signed to a 3 year/$3.2M contract in 2013.

Trade Acquisitions
• Chad Johnson - traded from the Bengals in 2012 for a 5th round draft pick.
• Greg Salas – traded from the Rams in 2012 for a conditional late round draft pick.
• LeGarrette Blount – traded from the Bucs in 2013 for Demps and a 7th round draft pick.

There is a big difference between something not working out and it never being attempted. The Patriots drafted 2 big time playmakers in 2011 in Gronkowski and Hernandez just like the Broncos drafted Thomas and Decker, the Patriots even extended them both which the Broncos did not do, the Broncos went out and signed a marquee slot receiver this past offseason in Welker, the Patriots did the same thing in fact the Patriots committed for longer and for more money than the Broncos did.

There were other players added during the time that I didn’t even account for by the Patriots and it is also worth noting the Patriots used 2 early draft picks on OT (Solder and Vollmer, the also resigned Vollmer to a 4 year/$12M contract) during the period to ensure Brady was protected.

Listen I get it things didn’t work out, Gronkowski has been burdened with injuries, Hernandez took the wrong path in life and Amendola suffered through injuries and did not live up to expectations but to suggest the Patriots didn’t invest in the offense enough is wrong, I would argue that the Patriots invested and positioned themselves to provide Brady with offensive weapons better than any team in the NFL and certainly better than the gold standard Denver Broncos.

Here are my two cents on the matter (though I'm not an expert on building a team at all, and I'll be the first to admit it.)

When it comes to guys like Gronk, Vereen, and Amendola, the argument could be made that the FO should have had more foresight, and expected them to be hindered by injuries at some point during the season. Though in regards to Amendola, I think they did plan for that, hence the 1 year deal for Edelman (how large Amendola's contract is, is another debate entirely). In the case of Gronk, Jake Ballard didn't pan out, though someone might argue that it was apparent that he couldn't contribute anything significant.

In hindsight, parting ways with Woodhead might have been the most boneheaded move, as he was relatively cheap, and Washington turned out to be the biggest disappointment this year, in my opinion.

Of course, there's also the matter of Donald Jones and Aaron Salamanca. The former wasn't going to be a pro bowler by any stretch of the imagination, but I could imagine him being a contributor (maybe a solid number 4 option?). Unfortunately, we lost him to a condition that I'm doubtful the FO saw coming. In regards to the Incarcerated One, well he just decided to throw away his career at the worst time, and in the worst way possible.

 

[The_Riddler]

Think a lot of the frustration is related to trading down not once, but twice when two game breaking WRs fell right into their laps during a year when we truly needed a game breaker outside the hashes. It was there for us and twice BB passed on Demaryius Thomas and Dez Bryant and ended up settling for a CB who had nice rookie year then regressed significantly in his sophomore year to the point where his play was so bad it was costing us games. Granted this past season due to a position change, DMac had a decent season yet for all the talk about him around here you would expect some game impacting plays, yet those were no where to be found. When he was needed most in Denver last week, he was a liability in a huge football game. Compare this to the player BB passes on, one Demaryius Thomas who was an absolute stud all season and in the AFCCG and you get what you pay for. It was a miss of epic proportions and is part of the anger that a lot of us feel in regards to TBs lack of weapons. TB and Thomas would have been a nightmare for teams to defend. Heck even Dez and TB can you imagine?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Heck even Dez and TB can you imagine?

We don't have to imagine.

And, BTW, don't forget that the Patriots got the Prisoner (who definitely contributed during his three seasons here) with one of the picks they got from Denver.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's not a fallacy, at all.

 

[The_Riddler]

We don't have to imagine.

And, BTW, don't forget that the Patriots got the Prisoner (who definitely contributed during his three seasons here) with one of the picks they got from Denver.

Ah I see, so in your eyes you would make that trade all over again?

AH and DMac for Demaryius Thomas?

Please don't apply for the future Patriots GM position.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Please don't apply for the future Patriots GM position.

If you think that Dez Bryant would have lasted long enough to make an impact in New England, then I would say the same about you.

 

[The_Riddler]

If you think that Dez Bryant would have lasted long enough to make an impact in New England, then I would say the same about you.

Ya I know, who would want over 1200 yards and 13 TDs ? Certainly not a stud loaded WR team like us.

 

[Brady6]

It's not a fallacy, at all.

Ok this is going to sound funny I even laughed a bit when I thought of it but take away the injuries and the murder charges and who would you rather have if you focus solely on the on field capabilities of the players.

• Thomas or Gronkowski
• Decker or Hernandez

In my opinion Gronkowski is a more dominating player on the field than Thomas and when he is healthy he is in a select group that includes him, Peterson and Johnson Jr. and I think Hernandez and Decker equate to each other on the field. I know that you can point to things like injury concerns and off the field problems and that we should have known that it was not going to work out but realistically all 4 of the players we’re comparing here had predraft question marks that dropped their stock, Thomas’s grandmother and mother were arrested for trafficking cocaine, he was in the room when Cox allegedly raped a girl within eye view and he had a torn Achilles entering the draft, Decker had injuries and didn’t compete in the combine. Initially the Patriots duo looked like the better option and now the Broncos duo is the gold standard, I mean sometimes things work out like they have (currently anyway) for the Broncos and they turn to **** like they have for the Patriots but looking solely at the current outcome to make a determination and using that to imply that both teams didn’t basically do the same exact thing and just have 2 different outcomes is not a fair assessment.

 

[IllegalContact]

The WR turnover last offseason was intentional. The end result was better than most of anticipated before the season....we have lots to look forward to from the rookies

 

[condon84]

Going into the season, our FO thought they supplied Brady with the greatest TE duo in NFL history and a younger, faster version of Wes Welker.

It wasn't their fault AHern decided to go Dexter on them, and Gronk took a longer time to heal and then get re-injured.

They should have known about Amendola's propensity to get injured. That was well documented. They took a risk there and failed. However, Edelman showed that he was more than capable.

But it's not like Brady went into the season with his d!(k in his hand as his only weapon. In what basically is one of Brady's worst statistical season from a QB perspective in the last 5 years, we still ended up with the 3rd highest scoring offense. It's wasn't all Brady folks. He had a pretty good coaching staff that got the entire team ready to play. A team that still had good players playing even with all the injuries, lol.

 

[bigballas]

Injuries and the offensive line (inconsistency) was what did us in. Trade out our OL for what manning had and Brady would have ripped

 

[ausbacker]

I assumed it was going to take Gronkowski a certain period of time to come back from his offseason complications Brady6. Losing Hernandez was the big move of the offseason. He would have been (IMO) the Pats #1 receiving option until Gronk returned. Without him, the Patriots were underprepared and thrust players 2 spots up the depth chart to positions they weren't ready for. The issue further complicated itself when Amendola injured himself.

It's always easy to look at moves in isolation ignoring the flow on effect. Taking Hernandez out of the line up with a hobbled Gronk, IMO, was a defining factor in a lot of the Patriots offensive woe.

 

[bigballas]

Also we still finished 12-4, same record as 2012 where we had both gronk and AH. We just need to play more consistent next year and hope injuries don't pile up. We have the weapons IMO

 

[DocHoliday]

Ok this is going to sound funny I even laughed a bit when I thought of it but take away the injuries and the murder charges and who would you rather have if you focus solely on the on field capabilities of the players.

• Thomas or Gronkowski
• Decker or Hernandez

In my opinion Gronkowski is a more dominating player on the field than Thomas and when he is healthy he is in a select group that includes him, Peterson and Johnson Jr. and I think Hernandez and Decker equate to each other on the field. I know that you can point to things like injury concerns and off the field problems and that we should have known that it was not going to work out but realistically all 4 of the players we’re comparing here had predraft question marks that dropped their stock, Thomas’s grandmother and mother were arrested for trafficking cocaine, he was in the room when Cox allegedly raped a girl within eye view and he had a torn Achilles entering the draft, Decker had injuries and didn’t compete in the combine. Initially the Patriots duo looked like the better option and now the Broncos duo is the gold standard, I mean sometimes things work out like they have (currently anyway) for the Broncos and they turn to **** like they have for the Patriots but looking solely at the current outcome to make a determination and using that to imply that both teams didn’t basically do the same exact thing and just have 2 different outcomes is not a fair assessment.

Trying and failing has the same outcome as not trying.

Therefore the Patriots have not done enough for Brady if they want to win. It's really that simple. You don't get spotted points by Denver for trying to give Brady weapons. If you draft injury risks you best have backup plans.

While I do agree their hands have been tied, it's still failure. They just couldn't do anything about it.

 

[Ivan]

Ya I know, who would want over 1200 yards and 13 TDs ? Certainly not a stud loaded WR team like us.

Would his babysitters count against the cap?