The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass rush?

[JackBauer]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

Um, what? So hopefully WE get open against the Giants DBs? And hopefully WE stop the Giants Dlineman?

Um, no. We are fans hoping that our favorite team (THEY) do those things en route to a victory.

We aren't part of the Patriots' game plan this Sunday. Some people need to start learning this basic concept.

Are you a graduate from the School of Inane Pedantry?

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

As I noted on another thread, the Giants have already shown they can protect Eli against the Patriots pass rush. They did it in week 9, even while Carter was still playing for the Patriots.

The question is whether or not they can do it again.

The defense that will play on Sunday is not the same Defense that played in week 9. The defense, though it is without Carter, is much more refined and working better together than it did in week 9. And, I daresay, the Pass Rush is significantly better than it was in week 9 despite not having Carter. The Pats put up 3 sacks on a very good O-line in Baltimore.

The Pats will have a fully healthy Spikes. A fully healthy Fletcher. Deaderick is in game shape and is showing to be a force with Love and Wilfork.

The Pats secondary is improved, having allowed only 1 QB to top 300 yards (306) in the last 6 weeks. Sterling Moore is clearly an improvement over Adams/Barrett.

 

[sevengables_2207]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

IIRC, the Patriots pass rush was pretty good in week nine. I think they actually got more pressure on Eli than the NYG unit did on Brady. They may not have sacked him, but they pressured and/or knocked him down about 7 or 8 times.

If it were not for a few key injuries to Spikes and Chung that thrust White and Brown into their spots near the end of the game, the defense may have fared favorably that day.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

Pointing to hits is meaningless if they don't have an impact, as is pointing to pressures, because you don't have the time allowed in the pocket to look at. Patriots fans used to understand this because of Brady's willingness to hold the ball and take a hit, but they're suddenly forgetting it when Eli's doing the same thing. People here are making needless arguments when one can simply acknowledge a one-off and hope for better this time around. Also, when people can't even agree on the numbers, the numbers become even more meaningless.

With Peyton Manning, hits/pressures matter as a straight and isolated statistic, because he's a flincher who's all about getting a quick and clean release. With Brady and Eli.... not so much.

You said in your last post that it was shown that New York's OL can protect against our pass rush. My response was that, clearly, they couldn't. Eli's tough, and the NFCCG showed that. But I'll take our ability to pressure last time around as much better news than you are. If we could pressure him then with a four man front, we can sack him this time around in the 3-4 given that our sack numbers per game have actually IMPROVED since the loss of Carter.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

You said in your last post that it was shown that New York's OL can protect against our pass rush. My response was that, clearly, they couldn't.

The Giants O-Line protected him in that game. It was one of only 3 games all season where Manning wasn't sacked, as a matter of fact. The discussion about holding the ball leading to hits is one we had many times in the 2007-2009 years, and it's not one I'm going to get into again now. Eli has been dropped in 16 of 19 games, yet the Patriots got shut out.

Eli's tough, and the NFCCG showed that. But I'll take our ability to pressure last time around as much better news than you are. If we could pressure him then with a four man front, we can sack him this time around in the 3-4 given that our sack numbers per game have actually IMPROVED since the loss of Carter.

They never got to him. The bolded part shows that you know this. I don't know how it can be more clear.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

Of course I'm serious. You seem to have missed the point of what I wrote. Let me try to make it more clear:

Citing to hits and pressures, without being able to point to time allowed in pocket or to point to tangible problems caused by the hit/pressure, is a poor cite with QBs who stand in the pocket and take hits (Brady/Eli), but it's a more worthwhile cite when you're dealing with a QB who doesn't stay in the pocket under pressure and who chucks the ball away (Peyton).

I'm not going back to the discussions about this that we had in 2007-2009, though, so I'll leave it at that.

Just watched every throw by Manning in week 9.

I counted:
8 Hits
17 pressures

Of the 25 Pressures/Hits:

15 Incomplete
1 Int
2 Holding penalties (don't count as pass attempts)
1 long scramble
8 Completions

8 pressures/hits came on third down and ended drives (1 was an INT)

1 should have been a sack, but Manning was able to get it to his RB's feet as he was being driven to the ground.

We got to him and the pressure was a huge factor in the game. Two late 4th Quarter PI's (both legit) assisted or directly led to 14 Giant points. Arrington's was for 35 yards to put the Giants at the Pats 40 and everyone remembers Brown's that put them at the one at the 1 yard line with 30 seconds to go.

Since week 9 the Giants lost Beatty and had to move Diehl to LT and Boothe to LG. So again how do they protect Manning on Sunday when they didn't do it in week 9?

 

[mgcolby]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

IIRC, the Patriots pass rush was pretty good in week nine. I think they actually got more pressure on Eli than the NYG unit did on Brady. They may not have sacked him, but they pressured and/or knocked him down about 7 or 8 times.

If it were not for a few key injuries to Spikes and Chung that thrust White and Brown into their spots near the end of the game, the defense may have fared favorably that day.

Losing Chung was huge we lost him on the last drive and then a few plays later Brown tackled a receiver who didn't have possesion of the football in the end zone.

 

[makoute]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

Anderson, Wilfork, and Ninkovich are all going to have big games. The Giants OL is not that good.

I would love for Ninkovich to have a big game, the Pats have never lost when he has big games.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

Just watched every throw by Manning in week 9.

I counted:
8 Hits
17 pressures

Of the 25 Pressures/Hits:

15 Incomplete
1 Int
2 Holding penalties (don't count as pass attempts)
1 long scramble
8 Completions

8 pressures/hits came on third down and ended drives (1 was an INT)

1 should have been a sack, but Manning was able to get it to his RB's feet as he was being driven to the ground.

We got to him and the pressure was a huge factor in the game. Two late 4th Quarter PI's (both legit) assisted or directly led to 14 Giant points. Arrington's was for 35 yards to put the Giants at the Pats 40 and everyone remembers Brown's that put them at the one at the 1 yard line with 30 seconds to go.

Since week 9 the Giants lost Beatty and had to move Diehl to LT and Boothe to LG. So again how do they protect Manning on Sunday when they didn't do it in week 9?

Sorry for the relative bump, but I've been swamped at work for the past two days. Having been able to go back and watch the game, I agree with your post. People used that argument about Brady, Deus, because Brady is better than Eli Manning. In this game alone, a nice drive ended only because Brady had to corral a bad snap, evade pressure, and throw it. He threw a bullet to Welker only for Welker to drop it. Gronkowski also had a big drop too (I believe on the same drive) and, before that, was Brady's bad throw where it didn't look like he even saw Michael Boley.

As for the pass rush, you missed a sack mgcolby. That would be when Haynesworth was singled up and bullied his way into the offensive backfield where he was held and actually did get a hand on Manning (forcing him toward Anderson). Still the Giants had a 5 yard penalty on the play, so it ultimately did result in a loss of yardage and, without the hold, would have been a sack.

As for this game, we're playing better in the secondary (which isn't saying much) than we did in Week 9, we've moved back to the 3-4, an alignment that we're more suited to play, the front seven has looked really good in the postseason (Anderson and Ninkovich getting into the the opponent's backfield), Spikes is back and was all over the place against Baltimore, and Wilfork has played even better than he ever has. The Pats have a VERY good chance of sacking Manning more this week. But I'll also take the pressures as they resulted in some bad throws by Eli.