The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass rush?

[mgcolby]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

In all seriousness, Wilfork and his ability to collapse the middle of the pocket are huge keys. Not joking at all, I think Eli right now is playing with some of the best pocket presence I have ever seen. The Giants' OL isn't great and not of primary concern, imo. But Eli has been unreal at avoiding the rush (especially DE's), sliding, sidestepping, and stepping up into the pocket,and always knowing where his outlet receiver are. This is what makes him so tough, especially on third down, when he is incredibly clutch.

San Fran did a tremendous job of rushing him (as the sack numbers show), but they also missed him on at least a half-dozen occasions by allowing him to slip through gaps, step up in the pocket, and take advantage of the lanes left by hard-charging DE's. New England HAS to be more disciplined with its outsider rushers and any blitzing LBs, and Wilfork MUST control the middle. If not, Eli will step up, buy more time for his receivers, and make throws down field all day.

It won't be just Wilfork up the middle. Kyle Love is a large man and gets a lot of push up the middle as well, allowing the Pats to move Wilfork all around the line looking for the best matchup(s). And IMO, McKenzie is the weakest link. I think the Pats will line Deaderick up at his normal LDE spot against McKenzie for the first series or two and see how that matchup plays out, with Love at Nose and Wilfork at RDE against Diehl.

One thing that is certain is the Wilfork will move all around that line during the game. And the Giants O-line's first responsibility will be identifying where Big Vince is.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

I think it's kinda ironic that there is a thread asking how the Giants will stop the Pats Pass Rush. For the first 8-10 games, there were many people in this forum were saying how bad the Pats Pass Rush was. That they couldn't get to the QB. How they couldn't put pressure on the QB. Etc. Etc. There were a few people who stated otherwise, and it turns out THEY were right. That the Pats did have a pass rush. And, low and behold, it's what people are looking forward to in the SB.

I think that with Wilfork, Love, and Deaderick in the 3-4 and Ninkovich/Anderson at OLB with Mayo/Spike inside, the Pats pass rush will be very good. I think that this formation is also extremely stout against the run. And, if they put McCourty in at FS all game, they will easily be able to switch to the Nickel package.

Not if you look at the source.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: manning prediction

I feel like I'm watching an endless loop of David Cronenberg's "Scanners"......3 more friggin' days

I'm trying to enjoy it as much as possible. Even the negative stuff, even though we have a young core, who knows if we will be back in the Brady era? I'm not taking anything for granted, the wheels can fall off fast.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

while I agree with you, those stats are pretty weak. 49ers front 7 is ridiculously good and underrated. They didn't get the press the Steelers and Ravens got, but they should have.

Take away the stats from that game and the numbers vs the Packers really was ordinary

But I do think a big part of this games success on how we can handle Wilfork

You realize that a lot of times during that game, San Fran was having success getting to the quarterback using their three down linemen as the pass rush? New England won't do that. We can get to Eli while disguising well. We did it in the first meeting. We can do it again.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

As I noted on another thread, the Giants have already shown they can protect Eli against the Patriots pass rush. They did it in week 9, even while Carter was still playing for the Patriots.

The question is whether or not they can do it again.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

As I noted on another thread, the Giants have already shown they can protect Eli against the Patriots pass rush. They did it in week 9, even while Carter was still playing for the Patriots.

The question is whether or not they can do it again.

We had double digit hits on Eli in that game. Doesn't have to be all about sacks. The '07 and '11 Giants will tell you that exact same thing. That said, more sacks vs. Eli would be quite nice.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

As I noted on another thread, the Giants have already shown they can protect Eli against the Patriots pass rush. They did it in week 9, even while Carter was still playing for the Patriots.

The question is whether or not they can do it again.

They didn't sack him that game, but they did hit him 8 times and pressured him 15 times.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

We had double digit hits on Eli in that game. Doesn't have to be all about sacks. The '07 and '11 Giants will tell you that exact same thing. That said, more sacks vs. Eli would be quite nice.

They didn't sack him that game, but they did hit him 8 times and pressured him 15 times.

Pointing to hits is meaningless if they don't have an impact, as is pointing to pressures, because you don't have the time allowed in the pocket to look at. Patriots fans used to understand this because of Brady's willingness to hold the ball and take a hit, but they're suddenly forgetting it when Eli's doing the same thing. People here are making needless arguments when one can simply acknowledge a one-off and hope for better this time around. Also, when people can't even agree on the numbers, the numbers become even more meaningless.

With Peyton Manning, hits/pressures matter as a straight and isolated statistic, because he's a flincher who's all about getting a quick and clean release. With Brady and Eli.... not so much.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

Pointing to hits is meaningless if they don't have an impact, as is pointing to pressures, because you don't have the time allowed in the pocket to look at. Patriots fans used to understand this because of Brady's willingness to hold the ball and take a hit, but they're suddenly forgetting it when Eli's doing the same thing. People here are making needless arguments when one can simply acknowledge a one-off and hope for better this time around. Also, when people can't even agree on the numbers, the numbers become even more meaningless.

With Peyton Manning, hits/pressures matter as a straight and isolated statistic, because he's a flincher who's all about getting a quick and clean release. With Brady and Eli.... not so much.

I don't really have a dog in this fight either way, but it's also worth noting Carter's words earlier in the season that pass rush isn't only about winning the individual matchups, but also about chemistry and consistency among the various guys on the defensive line (similar dynamic applies with the offensive line).

Now, to my eyes the pass rush has looked more effective of late, and I do think some of the guys out there (Deaderick and Love, mostly), are playing a higher level than they were earlier in the year.

I have absolutely no idea how this will shake out on Sunday, but if things have finally "clicked" with these guys, it could be that their earlier performance in the year might not be the best indicator as to their present potential.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

Pointing to hits is meaningless if they don't have an impact, as is pointing to pressures, because you don't have the time allowed in the pocket to look at. Patriots fans used to understand this because of Brady's willingness to hold the ball and take a hit, but they're suddenly forgetting it when Eli's doing the same thing. People here are making needless arguments when one can simply acknowledge a one-off and hope for better this time around. Also, when people can't even agree on the numbers, the numbers become even more meaningless.

With Peyton Manning, hits/pressures matter as a straight and isolated statistic, because he's a flincher who's all about getting a quick and clean release. With Brady and Eli.... not so much.

You cannot be serious? Yes, there is something to be said for the QB that stands tall and takes the hit. But you can't possibly be trying to argue with a straight face that pressures and hits don't matter?

Did you not watch the Jets playoff game last year? Brady was seeing/feeling/hearing ghosts.

ESPN's game log registered 8 hits.

 

[ProudestRyno]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

while I agree with you, those stats are pretty weak. 49ers front 7 is ridiculously good and underrated. They didn't get the press the Steelers and Ravens got, but they should have.

Take away the stats from that game and the numbers vs the Packers really was ordinary

But I do think a big part of this games success on how we can handle Wilfork

THEY.

Carry on.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

I think it's kinda ironic that there is a thread asking how the Giants will stop the Pats Pass Rush. For the first 8-10 games, there were many people in this forum were saying how bad the Pats Pass Rush was. That they couldn't get to the QB. How they couldn't put pressure on the QB. Etc. Etc. There were a few people who stated otherwise, and it turns out THEY were right. That the Pats did have a pass rush. And, low and behold, it's what people are looking forward to in the SB.

I think that with Wilfork, Love, and Deaderick in the 3-4 and Ninkovich/Anderson at OLB with Mayo/Spike inside, the Pats pass rush will be very good. I think that this formation is also extremely stout against the run. And, if they put McCourty in at FS all game, they will easily be able to switch to the Nickel package.

It's called making improvement and getting rid of Fat Albert.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

You cannot be serious? Yes, there is something to be said for the QB that stands tall and takes the hit. But you can't possibly be trying to argue with a straight face that pressures and hits don't matter?

Did you not watch the Jets playoff game last year? Brady was seeing/feeling/hearing ghosts.

ESPN's game log registered 8 hits.

Of course I'm serious. You seem to have missed the point of what I wrote. Let me try to make it more clear:

Citing to hits and pressures, without being able to point to time allowed in pocket or to point to tangible problems caused by the hit/pressure, is a poor cite with QBs who stand in the pocket and take hits (Brady/Eli), but it's a more worthwhile cite when you're dealing with a QB who doesn't stay in the pocket under pressure and who chucks the ball away (Peyton).

I'm not going back to the discussions about this that we had in 2007-2009, though, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[everlong]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

I think a better question is can the Patriots defense generate pressure while containing Eli in the pocket? I believe they will get pressure but it cannot be at the expense of gap control with Eli as a scrambler. He might only take off and run once or twice a game but he makes a ton of plays outside of the pocket to Cruz in particular. In the game in NE there were two different instances I remember off the top of my head where McCorty had good coverage right up until Eli broke the pocket and then he completed big gainers to Cruz who broke off his routes. I don't have out of the pocket vs in the pocket QBR numbers for Eli but I'd guess he's right up there with guys like Ben for out of the pocket numbers. He's not going to do it like Ben. Eli moves 5 yards to his right, stops, resets and establishes his new pocket and then lets one fly usually deep to a receiver who's broken off his route.

Get pressure and don't let him out of the pocket and you've shut them down.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

THEY.

Carry on.

Without US there is no THEY therefore it is a collective WE

Carry on.

 

[ProudestRyno]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

Without US there is no THEY therefore it is a collective WE

Carry on.

Um, what? So hopefully WE get open against the Giants DBs? And hopefully WE stop the Giants Dlineman?

Um, no. We are fans hoping that our favorite team (THEY) do those things en route to a victory.

We aren't part of the Patriots' game plan this Sunday. Some people need to start learning this basic concept.

 

[goheels22002]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

Here is a stat that many may not know. The Giants finished with 48 sacks in the regular season. How many did the Patriots finish with? They finished with 40 sacks. That's just 8 less than the Giants. For a team known for it's pass rush prowess and another team known for just the opposite, it's amazing that the difference was only 8.

True. But Andre Carter was a big reason why the Patriots recorded 40 sacks - 1/4 of them were his. Carter was a huge loss, although Anderson has done a nice job filling in.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

Um, what? So hopefully WE get open against the Giants DBs? And hopefully WE stop the Giants Dlineman?

Um, no. We are fans hoping that our favorite team (THEY) do those things en route to a victory.

We aren't part of the Patriots' game plan this Sunday. Some people need to start learning this basic concept.

No, you need to learn that without the fans the games don't happen, period....end of story. Without the fans there is no NFL.

You need to learn this concept.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

True. But Andre Carter was a big reason why the Patriots recorded 40 sacks - 1/4 of them were his. Carter was a huge loss, although Anderson has done a nice job filling in.

That and their willingness to send Spikes and even Mayo (at times) up the middle. We've seen a lot more ILB blitzes starting in the second Miami game, though I don't remember to many in the Ravens game.

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

Um, what? So hopefully WE get open against the Giants DBs? And hopefully WE stop the Giants Dlineman?

Um, no. We are fans hoping that our favorite team (THEY) do those things en route to a victory.

We aren't part of the Patriots' game plan this Sunday. Some people need to start learning this basic concept.

Some people use the term "we," some people use the term, "they." Like MgColby, I use the term "we." Nothing wrong with that. No need to get your panties in a wet bunch over this.