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The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass rush?


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Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

Sorry, my comment was offered as sarcasm. But, he did stay in the pocket, but this game has all the pressure in the world and a few hits will make his release a bit quicker. The key here will be to keep him contained (to help the secondary).

You have to think our maligned defense and VW in particular are going to be on for this and they should have a good game. If Giants D is peaking at the right time, you have to say ours is there as well and I have nore confidence in our O-Line.

Yeah and that's where it's nice to have a guy like VW. Because Eli is so slippery and weak he doesn't get hurt as bad from speed rushes. But let VW fall on him and just kind lay there and sit on him or on a pile once or twice with Eli at the bottom. Just flatten him like a pancake.

It will be a different story.

Kind of like this. Another way to end up with cracked ribs.
images

"I can't breathe...please get off, please get off":D
 
Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

954-not-sure-if-serious.jpg
 
Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

I really believe BB has an ace up his sleeve this time. Ninkovich and Anderson WILL get to Eli, as immobile as he is. I also think Fletcher/Spikes blitzes will be particularly useful as well (have y'all been watching Spikes put a hurting on OG's lately?). Anything I have to say about Wilfork will be understated. Our secondary is in the best shape all season with McCourty's speed at S, a healthy Chung and a surprising group of young CB's. I honestly believe our D is better than the Giants'.

Where we fell short last SB was on our O-line. Our spread O of 2007 is gone, and the Giants will have to deal with some combination of the following on the outside: Light/Solder/Vollmer/Cannon/Gronk. Much, much, much different.
 
Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

I really believe BB has an ace up his sleeve this time. Ninkovich and Anderson WILL get to Eli, as immobile as he is. I also think Fletcher/Spikes blitzes will be particularly useful as well (have y'all been watching Spikes put a hurting on OG's lately?). Anything I have to say about Wilfork will be understated. Our secondary is in the best shape all season with McCourty's speed at S, a healthy Chung and a surprising group of young CB's. I honestly believe our D is better than the Giants'.

The funny thing is that it has been better than the Giants this season, yet common perception is the Giant D is great and the Pats D sux
 
Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

Here is a stat that many may not know. The Giants finished with 48 sacks in the regular season. How many did the Patriots finish with? They finished with 40 sacks. That's just 8 less than the Giants. For a team known for it's pass rush prowess and another team known for just the opposite, it's amazing that the difference was only 8.
 
Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

I really believe BB has an ace up his sleeve this time. Ninkovich and Anderson WILL get to Eli, as immobile as he is. I also think Fletcher/Spikes blitzes will be particularly useful as well (have y'all been watching Spikes put a hurting on OG's lately?). Anything I have to say about Wilfork will be understated. Our secondary is in the best shape all season with McCourty's speed at S, a healthy Chung and a surprising group of young CB's. I honestly believe our D is better than the Giants'.

Where we fell short last SB was on our O-line. Our spread O of 2007 is gone, and the Giants will have to deal with some combination of the following on the outside: Light/Solder/Vollmer/Cannon/Gronk. Much, much, much different.

Who cares about the last Super Bowl? We fell short by 4 earlier in the season this year.

But yes Bill will have an ace this time. Bill's ace up his sleeve will be that unlike last time we're not going to turn over the ball 4 times.
 
Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

Who cares about the last Super Bowl? We fell short by 4 earlier in the season this year.

But yes Bill will have an ace this time. Bill's ace up his sleeve will be that unlike last time we're not going to turn over the ball 4 times.

Just saying that the looming image in everyones mind is the Giants' front four (of both years). I'm saying why it won't be a factor this time.... and yes you are 100% correct... we won't turn the ball over 4 times.
 
Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

A Wilfork belly flop on Eli :eek: .... I would like that. :D
 
Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

Just saying that the looming image in everyones mind is the Giants' front four (of both years). I'm saying why it won't be a factor this time.... and yes you are 100% correct... we won't turn the ball over 4 times.

I honestly don't think the Patriots front was any worse that Super Bowl than the Giants, save for the one final drive. Filled with a lot of lucky plays.

Other than that I thought the Patriots front was just as tough in 2007 as the Giants was on this offense.

Why do people act like their defense was the only one that dominated the game? They didn't. Both defenses dominated. Their D kept the Pats offense to 14 points and Pats D kept that offense to 17 points. And the last 7 came on the flukiest of drives I have ever seen. It could have just as easily ended 14-10 Patriots. Or 21-10 Patriots.

Giants defense is getting far too much freaking credit for basically being an average defense incapable of stopping teams enough times so they don't have to win games by 4 points or less.

If they were as good as some want us to believe, they'd have won more games decisively this season. Same goes for their 2007 team.
 
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Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

I honestly don't think the Patriots front was any worse that Super Bowl than the Giants, save for the one final drive. Filled with a lot of lucky plays.

Other than that I thought the Patriots front was just as tough in 2007 as the Giants was on this offense.

Why do people act like their defense was the only one that dominated the game? They didn't. Both defenses dominated. Their D kept the Pats offense to 14 points and Pats D kept that offense to 17 points. And the last 7 came on the flukiest of drives I have ever seen. It could have just as easily ended 14-10 Patriots. Or 21-10 Patriots.

Giants defense is getting far too much freaking credit for basically being an average defense incapable of stopping teams enough times so they don't have to win games by 4 points or less.

If they were as good as some want us to believe, they'd have won more games decisively this season. Same goes for their 2007 team.

The Giants defense held the best offense in NFL history to 14 points.
The Patriots defense held a medicore offense to 17, and allowed back to back 80+ yard TD drives on the last 2 drives of the game.
If you don't think the Giant front 4 was the difference in that game, go back and watch it and count how many times Brady had a wide open receiver and got hit while throwing to send the ball off target, then count how many yards were lost because of it. When you get to over a dozen times and 200 yards, it will be OK to stop there, the point will be clear.
 
Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

The Giants defense held the best offense in NFL history to 14 points.
The Patriots defense held a medicore offense to 17, and allowed back to back 80+ yard TD drives on the last 2 drives of the game.
If you don't think the Giant front 4 was the difference in that game, go back and watch it and count how many times Brady had a wide open receiver and got hit while throwing to send the ball off target, then count how many yards were lost because of it. When you get to over a dozen times and 200 yards, it will be OK to stop there, the point will be clear.
Andy, if you are referencing the first Giant game this year, then I question your numbers. I've read this week that in that first game the Pats allowed just 2 sacks, 3 QB hits and 4 hurries. If these numbers are wrong let me know. But if they aren't, then its a good indication that the the Pats OL did a pretty good job holding back the Giants pass rush, especially when you consider Brady dropped back 49 times
 
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Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

The Giants defense held the best offense in NFL history to 14 points.
The Patriots defense held a medicore offense to 17, and allowed back to back 80+ yard TD drives on the last 2 drives of the game.
If you don't think the Giant front 4 was the difference in that game, go back and watch it and count how many times Brady had a wide open receiver and got hit while throwing to send the ball off target, then count how many yards were lost because of it. When you get to over a dozen times and 200 yards, it will be OK to stop there, the point will be clear.

I understand your point, although I think you're giving maybe a bit too much credit to one side and not enough to the other.

The Patriots offense may have been the greatest in the NFL history that season(arguable, honestly, as I feel this offense is even harder to stop and that one was heavily dependent on one guy, Moss), but on that day, I'm not sure how much of their failure can be credited to the Giants D and how much you can also credit to the Patriots offense itself. Just the play calling on the first two plays alone on the final drive was insane looking back at it. No different a situation then the Pats first Super Bowl, needing a FG to tie this time, but they had time outs and plenty of time. They dug themselves in a hole against that D because their intent on going deep(or did they have no other options) and got caught without short yardage options.

Likewise, considering that final offensive drive by the Giants, not sure how "mediocre" they were that game. I think it had more to do with how little respect the Giants offense and Eli got that year. The Giants offense had 6 4th quarter comebacks that year and 3 of them came in the playoffs. That's usually sign of a very good offense that doesn't quit until the end. It's more of a sign of a "mediocre" defense. When the only way your team can win their games is by the offense having the ball last, and they actually do it, that's not an indication of a bad offense. That's a dangerous offense.

Maybe we just don't want to accept that yes, by the end of that season, the Giants actually had the better offense. Even if you want to call them mediocre, then the facts say NE's defense was #1, allowing exactly 17.0 ppg to an average offense. That's exactly what they allowed in the Super Bowl, isn't it? Just look at the facts and use a bit of common sense.

-The Giants were a slightly above average offense(14th), scoring 22.9 ppg against an average defense, but against the #1 defense they only put up 17. Makes perfect sense to me. That's exactly what the #1 defense was supposed to do. Is it not?

-The #1 offense, NE Patriots put up 34.5 ppg against an average defense but could only muster up 14 against the Giants defense, whatever you consider them to be.

Simple common sense tells you even if the Giants had the best defense in the league, and we had them all wrong, during that Super Bowl, a #1 offense should at least be able to put up average points(22) on a #1 defense. They didn't. They only put up 14. Which was equivalent to being the 31st worst offense in the league.

A #1 defense can't make a #1 offense look last all on their own. They need a little help, from that team's own offense. The only way to make them look that bad, is if that offense also falls flat on their face.

Just ask yourself, how many points did the other top offenses put on them that year? GB, the #4 offense, put up 35, Dallas, the number 3 offense managed 45 and 31 points in the regular season. Heck the Pats put up 38 in week 17. And then even in the playoffs, GB managed 20 points even in their playoff loss 2 weeks before they faced the Pats in the Super Bowl. Dallas managed 17 in their loss 3 weeks before. The only other offense who scored 14 points against the Giants D during the playoffs was Tampa Bay, and they were the 19th ranked offense that year in points scored.

The Patriots offense failed in the 2007 Super Bowl. Not the Patriots defense. Their over reliance on Moss was their undoing and them being forced to go deep and thinking Moss could beat everyone is what created a lot of sacks. And the Giants defense certainly didn't do anything amazing. The shut down the run game, and forced Brady to hold on to the ball in the pocket so they could get to him. You can either continue to believe the Giants average defense improved astronomically in the playoffs, above and beyond what even a #1 defense can do, or simply believe the Patriots offense performed poorly and the Giants offense was the better offense in the game. Which one makes more sense?
 
Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

I'm amazed at how Elie Manning can take a lickin and keep on tickin. Hes really

Gumby.jpg


With a helmet. Kind of looks like Gumby too.
 
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Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

A Wilfork belly flop on Eli :eek: .... I would like that. :D

In all seriousness, Wilfork and his ability to collapse the middle of the pocket are huge keys. Not joking at all, I think Eli right now is playing with some of the best pocket presence I have ever seen. The Giants' OL isn't great and not of primary concern, imo. But Eli has been unreal at avoiding the rush (especially DE's), sliding, sidestepping, and stepping up into the pocket,and always knowing where his outlet receiver are. This is what makes him so tough, especially on third down, when he is incredibly clutch.

San Fran did a tremendous job of rushing him (as the sack numbers show), but they also missed him on at least a half-dozen occasions by allowing him to slip through gaps, step up in the pocket, and take advantage of the lanes left by hard-charging DE's. New England HAS to be more disciplined with its outsider rushers and any blitzing LBs, and Wilfork MUST control the middle. If not, Eli will step up, buy more time for his receivers, and make throws down field all day.
 
Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

Andy, if you are referencing the first Giant game this year, then I question your numbers. I've read this week that in that first game the Pats allowed just 2 sacks, 3 QB hits and 4 hurries. If these numbers are wrong let me know. But if they aren't, then its a good indication that the the Pats OL did a pretty good job holding back the Giants pass rush, especially when you consider Brady dropped back 49 times

He's referring to the SBTSNBN
 
Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

I'm amazed at how Elie Manning can take a lickin and keep on tickin. Hes really

Gumby.jpg


With a helmet. Kind of looks like Gumby too.

I resent any implication that Eli looks like me.
 
Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

Ask Tebow that question.



Eli was lucky and if that's the kind of job the Giants are going to do to protect him, I feel worried for him. Don't be silly. Defensive players don't suffer that type of punishment in a football game that Eli took, and just because he did, and came out ok, it's not something I would count on.

I think his main advantage is his own weakness, is his strength. Very flexible. Goes with the hit, versus against it, and things don't break. His body is literally like a rag doll when he gets hit.

But with the right hit, he could be seriously injured.


careful; I don't think we should wish for anyone to get hurt (exceptions for b. Pollard ALWAYS authorized).

But you did cause me to go, hmmmmm WHO is their backup?

David Carr (#8 QB 6’3” 212lb)
QB: CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG TD LNG INT FUM RAT
2010 Regular Season 5 13 67 38.5 5.15 0 22 1 0 23.6
Career 1351 2,264 14,433 59.7 6.38 65 81 71 40 74.9
CMPATTYDSCMP%AVGTDLNGINTFUMRAT2010 Regular Season5136738.55.150221023.6Career13512,26414,43359.76.386581714074.9CMPATTYDSCMP%AVGTDLNGINTFUMRAT2010 Regular Season5136738.55.150221023.6Career13512,26414,43359.76.386581714074.9

You have to like that comparison. I mean our backup has a 100% completion rating. :D
 
Eli Manning prediction

somebody on the pats is going to lay a game-changing hit on manning. not going to kill him or anything, but he will affected the rest of the game. it won't be such a vicious hit, but the pats DL has gotten pretty good at getting to the QB from all angles.....it will be similar to shaun ellis' hit on tebow. manning will simply not know what's behind him until it is too late. from that point on, he will not be the same player.

book it
 
Re: The real question: How will the Giants O-Line protect Eli against the Pats Pass r

I think it's kinda ironic that there is a thread asking how the Giants will stop the Pats Pass Rush. For the first 8-10 games, there were many people in this forum were saying how bad the Pats Pass Rush was. That they couldn't get to the QB. How they couldn't put pressure on the QB. Etc. Etc. There were a few people who stated otherwise, and it turns out THEY were right. That the Pats did have a pass rush. And, low and behold, it's what people are looking forward to in the SB.

I think that with Wilfork, Love, and Deaderick in the 3-4 and Ninkovich/Anderson at OLB with Mayo/Spike inside, the Pats pass rush will be very good. I think that this formation is also extremely stout against the run. And, if they put McCourty in at FS all game, they will easily be able to switch to the Nickel package.
 
Re: manning prediction

I feel like I'm watching an endless loop of David Cronenberg's "Scanners"......3 more friggin' days:eek:
 
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