The Play to Run for Tim Tebow

[Ring 6]

I'm not "now saying it was 3.2 because the Jets sucked". I offered that in my initial response to you on this.

And yes, the Jets sucked. They were 23rd in the league in rushing yards per attempt last year. Tebow wasn't as good given limited opportunity last year as he has been the entire rest of his career. That's a fair point.

I know that was one of your original possibliities, but after we eliminated the first, and you reverted to the second that is where "now saying" came from.

It is an interesting argument to say the bad team held back only the guy who had the worst ypc.

Tebow wasn't good. It should really end there.

 

[ivanvamp]

I know that was one of your original possibliities, but after we eliminated the first, and you reverted to the second that is where "now saying" came from.

It is an interesting argument to say the bad team held back only the guy who had the worst ypc.

Tebow wasn't good. It should really end there.

Remember when I said this:

No, I didn't want to get too into it because you can be a real pain in the ass.

This is what I meant.

 

[Ring 6]

Remember when I said this:



This is what I meant.

I'm sorry if you do not like to be challenged by your statements. That is kind what a debate is about.
If you would rather I just post a happy smiley face instead of discussing why I disagree with your comments, you should just make posts and then ignore the responses.
The facts are the Tebows play in 2012 is not excused because teams gameplanned so heavily for him that he had an uneven playing field, nor is it excusable based on his team, when all of his teammates performed better.
Not sure what the point of being offended by disagreement is.

 

[doesntmatter1]

During the preseason, I would like to see some old gator plays. Tebow in shotgun w/ hernandez next to him and run some option plays off that like their old days together. Tebow in shotgun fakes a qb dive and throws a deep left pass to dobson.

I honestly want the fourth preseason game to be nothing but tebow and see if tebow time is still alive. I still don't like tebow but our dink and dunk offense could really help him. I don't think that he is so bad that he can't throw a bubble screen.

Lastly, I don't want tebow throwing the ball near the goal line. Like others have said, accurracy is extremely important in such a condensed area and the jump pass is just stupid(every time he did it I expected a basketball ref to come running and whistle an up and down violation etc.)

 

[ivanvamp]

I'm sorry if you do not like to be challenged by your statements. That is kind what a debate is about.
If you would rather I just post a happy smiley face instead of discussing why I disagree with your comments, you should just make posts and then ignore the responses.
The facts are the Tebows play in 2012 is not excused because teams gameplanned so heavily for him that he had an uneven playing field, nor is it excusable based on his team, when all of his teammates performed better.
Not sure what the point of being offended by disagreement is.

The point is you're turning this into WAY bigger of an issue than it really is. You could have said, hey, we disagree on this. But nope. You are really pressing the issue over something that really isn't a big deal. That's why I said I didn't want to get into it with you. I've had a number of discussions with you on different things and once you latch on to something, you refuse to let it go.

So it's up to me to break this off. Which I will do...... now.

 

[Demosthenes]

Teams game planned for his 2 carries a game?
Wow, there is just no need for reason in your thought process is there?

Might as well jump in here. First, yes, teams did "game plan" to stop Tebow. More accurately, they practiced defending against the "WildCat", which was reported/commented on just about every week it seemed. If you don't want to accept my word for it, how about Wilfork's ? From last year:

Patriots defense preparing for Jets’ Wildcat, Tebow
By BART HUBBUCH
Last Updated: 10:15 AM, October 19, 2012
Posted: 12:50 AM, October 19, 2012
Jets Blog


FOXBOROUGH, Mass. — The Jets haven’t even played the Patriots yet, but Tim Tebow already is giving Gang Green a leg up on their arch rivals.

The Patriots admitted as much here yesterday, saying the mere possibility that the Jets break out a full Tebow Wildcat package in Sunday’s AFC East showdown at Gillette Stadium has made preparation more difficult.

“You have to prepare for him in practice, so it’s a big advantage for them,” said Vince Wilfork, New England’s Pro Bowl defensive tackle. “We know what they usually bring to the table, but they have the ability to do things totally different with a guy like that. Tebow really makes you mind your Ps and Qs.”

Wilfork’s comments — backed up by a handful of his defensive teammates — indicate Rex Ryan was onto something during the offseason when he talked about just the threat of Tebow would benefit the Jets because opponents would have to devote precious in-season practice time to him.

I'd say that the biggest problem last year was Tony Sparano and his ineptitude. Hell, even Mike McCoy was more creative and competent with Tebow. With Sparano, it was basically "Send in Tebow and run a QB dive".

This, at least in part, explains some of the 3.2 ypc average last year.

One thing that I would offer though is that Tebow's 5.0 ypc avg has to be looked at in context. That avg came when he was running Option from the QB position. It doesn't necessarily follow that he would be as successful as a RB. In fact, I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't do as well and that his numbers would be more in line with those of a fullback.

 

[Ring 6]

The point is you're turning this into WAY bigger of an issue than it really is. You could have said, hey, we disagree on this. But nope. You are really pressing the issue over something that really isn't a big deal.

As are you. That is what happens when you discuss something.

That's why I said I didn't want to get into it with you.

No, you insulted me.

I've had a number of discussions with you on different things and once you latch on to something, you refuse to let it go.

If you made a good argument that could change my mind, I would agree.
When you keep arguing the same incorrect point, I will keep disagreeing.

So it's up to me to break this off. Which I will do...... now.

Sorry it is so painful for you to have a discussion.

 

[Ring 6]

Might as well jump in here. First, yes, teams did "game plan" to stop Tebow. More accurately, they practiced defending against the "WildCat", which was reported/commented on just about every week it seemed. If you don't want to accept my word for it, how about Wilfork's ? From last year:






I'd say that the biggest problem last year was Tony Sparano and his ineptitude. Hell, even Mike McCoy was more creative and competent with Tebow. With Sparano, it was basically "Send in Tebow and run a QB dive".

Every team prepares for the wildcat if teams run the wild cat. That is not even close to claiming Tebows poor stats are a result of gameplanning, which implies a team focussed on and sold out to stop him, making his stats an unfair assessment.

This, at least in part, explains some of the 3.2 ypc average last year.

Why doesnt Tebow get credit for Tebows play?

One thing that I would offer though is that Tebow's 5.0 ypc avg has to be looked at in context. That avg came when he was running Option from the QB position. It doesn't necessarily follow that he would be as successful as a RB. In fact, I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't do as well and that his numbers would be more in line with those of a fullback.

Of course.

 

[Ring 6]

Might as well jump in here. First, yes, teams did "game plan" to stop Tebow. More accurately, they practiced defending against the "WildCat", which was reported/commented on just about every week it seemed. If you don't want to accept my word for it, how about Wilfork's ? From last year:






I'd say that the biggest problem last year was Tony Sparano and his ineptitude. Hell, even Mike McCoy was more creative and competent with Tebow. With Sparano, it was basically "Send in Tebow and run a QB dive".

This, at least in part, explains some of the 3.2 ypc average last year.

One thing that I would offer though is that Tebow's 5.0 ypc avg has to be looked at in context. That avg came when he was running Option from the QB position. It doesn't necessarily follow that he would be as successful as a RB. In fact, I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't do as well and that his numbers would be more in line with those of a fullback.

By the way, lets not kid ourselves that Wilfork or any Patriot is going to give real information about how the team is preparing for an opponent or what they did that made it harder.

 

[Salva135]

Simple, Tebow jump-pass to Hernandez at the goal line. The Internet explodes.

 

[Demosthenes]

Every team prepares for the wildcat if teams run the wild cat. That is not even close to claiming Tebows poor stats are a result of gameplanning, which implies a team focussed on and sold out to stop him, making his stats an unfair assessment.


Why doesnt Tebow get credit for Tebows play?



Of course.

When a team "prepares", it "game plans for". Doesn't mean that all of their game planning is for that one thing or one person. When a team stacks the box when tebow came into the game, and Sparano obliged them by running yet another QB dive right into the line, the end result was a 3.2 ypc average. That's a result of teams game planning to stop Tebow, coupled with Sparano being inept.


Why doesn't Tebow get credit for Tebow's play ? Because unless your name is Adrian Petersen, if every time you enter the game, teams know that you will be taking a direct snap and running up the middle, you aren't going to have a very high YPC avg.

BTW, if you look at the underlying thought of my post, you'll see that I'm kind of agreeing with you in that it's wrong to think that all you have to do is give Tebow the ball and he'll pick up 5+ yards running it.

 

[Ring 6]

When a team "prepares", it "game plans for". Doesn't mean that all of their game planning is for that one thing or one person. When a team stacks the box when tebow came into the game, and Sparano obliged them by running yet another QB dive right into the line, the end result was a 3.2 ypc average. That's a result of teams game planning to stop Tebow, coupled with Sparano being inept.


Why doesn't Tebow get credit for Tebow's play ? Because unless your name is Adrian Petersen, if every time you enter the game, teams know that you will be taking a direct snap and running up the middle, you aren't going to have a very high YPC avg.

BTW, if you look at the underlying thought of my post, you'll see that I'm kind of agreeing with you in that it's wrong to think that all you have to do is give Tebow the ball and he'll pick up 5+ yards running it.

Stating that a players stats are DUE TO being gameplanned for implies that player is the focus and is facing an uneven playing field in his stats.
That is ludicrous here.
Blaming Sporano who had more success with the wildcat than any other NFL coach is exactly what I am talking about, its silly.

 

[Demosthenes]

Stating that a players stats are DUE TO being gameplanned for implies that player is the focus and is facing an uneven playing field in his stats.
That is ludicrous here.
Blaming Sporano who had more success with the wildcat than any other NFL coach is exactly what I am talking about, its silly.

Dude, every single week, coaches and teams were quoted talking about how they spent time preparing to defend against Tebow. Now, if you don't want to call that "game planning to stop someone", I really don't know what more to say other than "you are wrong".

Secondly, if you don't think a players stats can be affected by teams "game planning for them", you are wrong here as well.

As for Sparano, he doesn't know diddly about RUNNING the WC. He didn't design the offense nor did he call the plays. The WC was brought into the NFL primarily by two people, Dan Henning, the OC at Miami and David Lee, the QB coach . Henning ran some single wing previously in Carolina, and David Lee had experience with it from his time at Arkansas with Gus Malzahn.

There's a good reason why in the span of a couple years, Sparano has gone from being HC, to OC, to a freaking offensive line coach again.

 

[vyrago]

There's a good reason why in the span of a couple years, Sparano has gone from being HC, to OC, to a freaking offensive line coach again.

Thanks so much to the poster who mentioned the ignore this thread function in the other Tebow thread. I used it so quickly, that I didn't get the poster's name.

I plan to de-tebowize by ignoring this one too and any other Tebow thread that crops up. I know it's like chopping a snake's head off, but it give me a sense of control.

 

[Demosthenes]

Thanks so much to the poster who mentioned the ignore this thread function in the other Tebow thread. I used it so quickly, that I didn't get the poster's name.

I plan to de-tebowize by ignoring this one too and any other Tebow thread that crops up. I know it's like chopping a snake's head off, but it give me a sense of control.

Cool. Have a good time.