The Official Rounds 2&3 2013 NFL Draft Thread

[DaBruinz]

For a team that preaches best player available, does anyone honestly think this was the top rated guy on the board? I think this is purely a BB pick and I also think a lot of scouts would not be very happy right now. This is why I think we need a Pioli type presence in the front office to stand up to BB. You have an entire scouting department and you have to trust the process, I don't see any evidence of that in this pick. I will go along with the "in Bill we trust" but if this pick doesn't pan out, like the Tavon Wilson pick, the media should call him out for it.

They preach best player available based on how they have scouted the players while also taking into consideration the needs of the team.

You claim you don't see any evidence of someone standing up to BB on that pick? Well, of course you don't. Because you aren't part of the process. You nor I have no idea what conversations have gone on between Caserio, Belichick, Robinson and Quinn. Do you honestly think that Belichick has put people into the Director of Pro Personnel, Director of College Scouting and Director of Pro Scouting positions who won't stand up to him? You think that Belichik has, all of a sudden, changes his modus operandi and decided to put people in place who just kiss his arse and say "Yes, BB"? Because that is basically what you are saying with your exaggerated claims right now. That BB changed what got him to 4 SBs with Pioli as the VP of Player Personnel.

Unlike you, I believe that BB learned from his 2007 mistakes of Maroney and Jackson. That he has gone back to trusting the process.

Seriously people. All you wannabe talent analysts need to get over yourselves already. None of you are working for an NFL team. None of you have actually STUDIED how to Scout players accordingly ( I know I haven't and it's why I stopped doing mocks and such). So, making these bold statements about the Pats Scouting department or Belichick or whatever is just you being arrogant. Plain and simple.

As for the Tavon Wilson pick, the jury is still out, but the kid did have a pretty respectable rookie year.

 

[Brady2Moss]

I can't agree with this. The only position we are weaker in is WR. On defense we are stacked now that we have Talib/Denard at fulltime and McCourtry moving to safety. Collins is going to make an impact this year imo. It may not look like the same old Patriots, but I feel we will become reliant more on the defense this year than we were use to. We will need them to step up if we plan on getting anywhere in the playoffs. Brady will play better without having to carry the team on his shoulders. He can focus on winning games and not just putting up big numbers.

They lack CB depth, if Talib gets hurt like he has a history of doing its back to Arrington island on the outside and then you are completely screwed. Wilson is a part time player that might be toast. The defense is only as good as Talib's health is, if he is healthy they are a good defense agreed. If he gets hurt they are screwed and did nothing to address that problem.

Brady is going to be mentally tested this season due to his top 3 targets being frequently injured. Dobson better be ready to make an impact year 1, I like his potential but we need impact NOW not 2 years from now the window is almost shut.

They had a lot of cap space and decent draft picks. They signed a bunch of JAGs while retaining their own (not impressive when you have a **** load of cap space) and then traded back and literally drafted horrendous players in the 3rd round and a guy who literally quit on his team and showed minimal effort in the year that serves as his try out for the NFL.

Collins and Dobson may be great 1-2 years from now, but we needed impact now and did not get it. I'm sorry they are worse.

 

[Rob0729]

The Steelers will be back in the playoffs if TP can stay somewhat healthy, in all likelihood*, and I find it telling that you are deliberately trying to get to results when I'm discussing process, maneuverings and intelligence of the basic moves, and have made it clear more than once that the players may work out swimmingly. It leads us to a spot from which nothing more can really be gleaned, though, so that would seem to be that.


* Disclaimer: This is the poster's opinion of the points being raised specifically in the quoted post, about the general discussion at hand, and he realizes that others may agree or disagree. He considers that understood on a message board.

I am not trying to manipulate anything. I think the Steelers are a bad team. I think if they hit a home run in the draft, they will still be a bad team just slightly better. I think their defense is too old in some areas and just not nearly talented enough in others. Their o-line still sucks.

It seems like you are just trying to throw it back on me because you desperately want to discredit me in pointing out that you are just throwing out a lot of opinions as facts and I am saying that none of us will know how any team does in this draft for a while. Yet, you still are throwing out your opinions as facts despite your passive agressive disclaimer you put on for another poster you had an argument with.

 

[DocHoliday]

The Patriots, as we know, likely have their own opinions on who they want on their team and who isn't.

You can spin it two ways:

1.) They're so afraid of losing that player and want him so bad they aren't willing to trade down past a certain point they'll pick him with a safe pick even if they 'overpaid'.

You can justify this by saying draft value means little if you don't end up with the right players in the end.

2.) They know other teams also value certains players highly, forcing their hand to pick him before another will. This was seen with the Gronk and Hernandez picks in 2010, when the Patriots outfoxed the Ravens.

 

[Kontradiction]

The Patriots scored at a rate of 50% today, and that's being generous. I liked the selections of Dobson and Ryan. Meh at the selection of Collins. LOL really at the selection of Harmon. He was a 4th rounder at best in my opinion. And an extra LOL really at the people defending that selection (the majority of those people would have gotten a grain of salt out of my pocket in regard to their opinion on draft prospects before Friday). The selection of Patton in the 4th will make me forgive the decision to pull the trigger on Harmon two rounds too early. And to think Williams and Okafor were still available. :ugh:

 

[DaBruinz]

Logan Mankin comes to mind the experts had him rate as a 6th rounder IIRC, then the pundits who wanted the WR out of Mi instead of Seymour. Then there was the WTF over McCourty.

Don't believe that Mankins was ever rated as a 6th rounder. 3rd rounder maybe. The Pats took him at the end of the 1st because they found out that the 49ers were trying to move up to the top of the 2nd round to snag Mankins. Pats had been trying to move down just a few spots, but decided to take Mankins when they heard about the 49ers interest.

 

[DaBruinz]

That track record in rounds 2-4 I talked about last night and was laughed off this board for ? Hahahah

The track record where you only saw what you wanted and ignored reality? Yep. We know that one...

 

[Deus Irae]

I am not trying to manipulate anything. I think the Steelers are a bad team. I think if they hit a home run in the draft, they will still be a bad team just slightly better. I think their defense is too old in some areas and just not nearly talented enough in others. Their o-line still sucks.

It seems like you are just trying to throw it back on me because you desperately want to discredit me in pointing out that you are just throwing out a lot of opinions as facts and I am saying that none of us will know how any team does in this draft for a while. Yet, you still are throwing out your opinions as facts despite your passive agressive disclaimer you put on for another poster you had an argument with.

I didn't say you were trying to manipulate anything. I said that you were deliberately trying to focus on the results when I'm discussing process, maneuverings and intelligence of the basic moves, and that I find that telling. Clearly, while you may disagree with my belief that such a deliberate focus is telling, the actual actions have been what I pointed out.

However, since you've decided to get personal with that last paragraph, I'm going to consider this conversation ended for the evening. If it's important to you, we can take it up from here tomorrow, without the personal attacks.

 

[Rob0729]

The Patriots scored at a rate of 50% today, and that's being generous. I liked the selections of Dobson and Ryan. Meh at the selection of Collins. LOL really at the selection of Harmon. He was a 4th rounder at best in my opinion. And an extra LOL really at the people defending that selection (the majority of those people would have gotten a grain of salt out of my pocket in regard to their opinion on draft prospects before Friday). The selection of Patton in the 4th will make me forgive the decision to pull the trigger on Harmon two rounds too early. And to think Williams and Okafor were still available. :ugh:

Personally, I won't defend Harmon, but I am not all that upset about him just because this draft is mediocre anyway. In a solid draft, I would be far more upset. Not thrilled with the pick.

I like Collins though. I think he can be a very good situational pass rusher to begin and could develop into more. I wonder if his motor is as big of an issue (which I assume is a reason you are Meh on him) as stated considering he was playing on a horrible team where a lot of players packed it in. I mean Randy Moss had motor issues in Oakland and that worked out. It could be a real issue for him or it could be his situation. I know he has some technique issues, but that could be corrected. He may not pan out, but he does fill what I thought was the most pressing need for the Pats - getting pressure on opposing QBs.

 

[condon84]

What makes it worse is the solid job being done by the Steelers. They needed to get a linebacker. They got the best in the draft. They needed a WR. They got one of the top prospects. They needed a RB and they got one without bouncing around for 'value', drafting a different position a round later and then finally deciding to take the RB after that.

The Steelers are putting on a clinic on how to draft, and the Patriots are putting on a clinic on how not to draft.*


* Disclaimer: This is the poster's opinion of the points being raised specifically in the quoted post, about the general discussion at hand, and he realizes that others may agree or disagree. He considers that understood on a message board.

They are having a great draft so far. I'm a fan of drafting productive players who played against other future NFL players. Specifically the SEC. That Jarvis Jones pick made so much sense. Bell's running style also suits their brand of football more so than Mendenhall did.

 

[Kontradiction]

Come on man. Even Mayock gave an opinion that basically said, "well, Belichick is familiar with that school. So I guess I should find something good to say". Harmon was a reach. If the Jets or Broncos had done that, they would have been crucified in this thread.

 

[Brady2Moss]

The track record where you only saw what you wanted and ignored reality? Yep. We know that one...

Nope the one where I looked at BBs drafts with this team and didn't reduce the sample size to an arbitrary time point after where the guy that handles BB's phone calls and dinner orders was changed from Pioli to Caserio. It always has been BB so look at the entire sample and notice that rounds 2-4 = bust city and a handful of good players.

Enjoy the great Rutgers players we drafted in round 3 and a low-motor guy that quit on his team in round 2. Should have just kept the first round pick and selected a guy that could make an impact instead of sing the Rutgers fight song.

 

[Deus Irae]

They are having a great draft so far. I'm a fan of drafting productive players who played against other future NFL players. Specifically the SEC. That Jarvis Jones pick made so much sense. Bell's running style also suits their brand of football more so than Mendenhall did.

The Ravens are another team that was able to successfully match up need with top end prospects without screwing around and drafting non-critical positions first.*



* Disclaimer: This is the poster's opinion of the points being raised specifically in the quoted post, about the general discussion at hand, and he realizes that others may agree or disagree. He considers that understood on a message board.

 

[DocHoliday]

Nope the one where I looked at BBs drafts with this team and didn't reduce the sample size to an arbitrary time point after where the guy that handles BB's phone calls and dinner orders was changed from Pioli to Caserio. It always has been BB so look at the entire sample and notice that rounds 2-4 = bust city and a handful of good players.

Enjoy the great Rutgers players we drafted in round 3 and a low-motor guy that quit on his team in round 2. Should have just kept the first round pick and selected a guy that could make an impact instead of sing the Rutgers fight song.

Who in particular would make the immediate impact?

 

[Rob0729]

Come on man. Even Mayock gave an opinion that basically said, "well, Belichick is familiar with that school. So I guess I should find something good to say". Harmon was a reach. If the Jets or Broncos had done that, they would have been crucified in this thread.

Again, I have said I laugh at the Jets no matter what they do because they are the Jets. I don't mind saying I am hypocritical about the Jets.

I think Harmon was a major reach. I just don't hate it as much as I felt about the Wilson pick last year because I don't think this draft is all that good. We have been told for weeks now that this is the worst draft in 10 years. So I am at the point, if the Pats want to reach on one pick I am not going to get too upset. I do think it has major potential of a waste of a pick.

 

[Brady2Moss]

The Ravens are another team that was able to successfully match up need with top end prospects without screwing around and drafting non-critical positions first.*



* Disclaimer: This is the poster's opinion of the points being raised specifically in the quoted post, about the general discussion at hand, and he realizes that others may agree or disagree. He considers that understood on a message board.

Yup replace Reed and Lewis with Elam and Brown, Ozzie is killing it this draft. Target your guys move up a few slots to get them if need be. Not move down because you want to win the value competition.

 

[Kontradiction]

Personally, I won't defend Harmon, but I am not all that upset about him just because this draft is mediocre anyway. In a solid draft, I would be far more upset. Not thrilled with the pick.

I like Collins though. I think he can be a very good situational pass rusher to begin and could develop into more. I wonder if his motor is as big of an issue (which I assume is a reason you are Meh on him) as stated considering he was playing on a horrible team where a lot of players packed it in. I mean Randy Moss had motor issues in Oakland and that worked out. It could be a real issue for him or it could be his situation. I know he has some technique issues, but that could be corrected. He may not pan out, but he does fill what I thought was the most pressing need for the Pats - getting pressure on opposing QBs.

This draft isn't mediocre at all. And if you really think it is then I challenge you to present a point by point case to me explaining why (that way it's easier for me to go point by point). In the end, you're saying that because you're having trouble justifying two of their selections today. That said, if they take Patton tomorrow, I'll be a much happier camper.

 

[Joker]

They lack CB depth, if Talib gets hurt like he has a history of doing its back to Arrington island on the outside and then you are completely screwed. Wilson is a part time player that might be toast.Adrian Wilson is toast??a part time player????WTF planet are you posting from TONIGHT?? The defense is only as good as Talib's health istotally idiotic statement with NO BASIS in reality whatsoever, if he is healthy they are a good defense agreedthe SECONDARY...you can't pin the ENTIRE defense on one cornerback...moronic. If he gets hurt they are screwed and did nothing to address that problem.that's YOUR guess...based on what?...one half of a playoff game??...you are so ADHD it's ridiculous

Brady is going to be mentally tested this season due to his top 3 targets being frequently injured.once again Nostraduma$$, if you are so certain of THEIR future how about some stock tips...ridiculous knee jerk reaction Dobson better be ready to make an impact year 1, I like his potential but we need impact NOW not 2 years from now the window is almost shut.define "impact"...you continue to slam and besmirch the entire Patriots organization yet you offer only these vague, ethereal, paranoid prognostications

They had a lot of cap space and decent draft picks. They signed a bunch of JAGs while retaining their own (not impressive when you have a **** load of cap space) and then traded back and literally drafted horrendous players in the 3rd round and a guy who literally quit on his team and showed minimal effort in the year that serves as his try out for the NFL. which player would THIS be? Collins?? You're a complete crackpot.Collins was universally lauded as the only starter on the Miss St defense that showed up to play every game of an 0-12 season. Ten sacks. You literally define lunatic fringe

Collins and Dobson may be great 1-2 years from now, but we needed impact now and did not get it. I'm sorry they are worse.wait....who do YOU want to name specifically that the Patriots should have taken with their picks that would be immediate contributors RIGHT NOW? You slam everything they do and then you offer NOTHING as an answer.

most humans have blood in their veins...obviously you are an anomaly that pumps hatorade throughout your body.

 

[Brady2Moss]

most humans have blood in their veins...obviously you are an anomaly that pumps hatorade throughout your body.

You are a troll, I tried reading your illogical responses with excessive bold and italics but just gave up after you tried acting like the D didn't collapse without Talib. You offer absolutely nothing to the discussion.

Also you don't even know what ADHD is you just use stupid buzz words and are entirely useless as a poster.

 

[Kontradiction]

Dues, maybe I'm reading your ire the wrong way but it might be better to just realize that safety is going to be a need again next season. Once Reid, Vaccarro, Elam, and Swearinger came off the board, the remaining safety class wasn't worth much. That's what makes our latest selection even more of a head scratcher. They should have just skipped safety this year and took either the monster DT or one of the better DE's left available.