The Official post-Colts game secondary/pass defense/Talib thread...

[leehanu]

Talib played well for a guy who is out for 4-5 weeks. He will get better as season goes on. He is better than any other options we have.

 

[jnug]

The entire play including the receiver he was assigned to was in front of Dennard. So there was no other way for Dennard to face. Luck was not under a great deal of pressure and made a horrible throw. However Dennard was in exactly the position he should have been in. Maybe his weight was a little on his heels. He was not in very good position to jump the route but was well positioned to keep the receiver from getting behind him. He probably did not have help over the top that he could rely on as I think the FS was biased to the other side of the field.

You have to credit the scheme in that case and credit Dennard for not dropping a ball right in his hands...clearly not a sure thing in the Pats secondary.

The ball Dennard deflected stretching out from behind the receiver was a far better play by Dennard. That might have been his best play yesterday and he did have a pretty good day at CB.

 

[patfanken]

Here's an interesting stat from yesterday's game. Dennard's pick was the longest interception return for the Pats since......Darius Butler had a longer one in HIS rookie year. Kinda ironic, eh.

It also is a cautionary tale about evaluating rookies. People seem to remember that NO one here was unhappy with Butler's rookie season. We all thought he was on a great track before it all came apart his 2nd year. Granted Dennard seems to be of a different nature. Less of a great athlete and more of a football player, but as happy as I am with HIS progress this season, Butler's example is teaching me that its probably better to take the long view on these things.

 

[patfanken]

BTW- here's an interesting take from a Brady comment. For the last 2 years all of us, including myself, have looked upon Julian Edelman as being not only Welker's back up, but a Welker clone. Brady came out had said something very different. He described them as have 2 entirely different skill sets. I found that both revealing, and different from the "current wisdom"

 

[PatsSox363804]

How many passes were tipped, knocked down, etc today? 4, 5? That was promising. Talib looked ok to good for the most part, the 2 TDs were really perfect throws and he almost knocked the first one down.

 

[F0nSY]

What about Chandler Jones' injury?

 

[stealthdog]

There is definately room for improvement, but as a whole this was the best game the secondary played in a while.

Luck was held to a little better than 50%, and outside of a few bad passes and drops, it was because of the coverage. The Patriots had a huge amount of passed defended (11), 8 of which were from the back 4. In comparison, the Colts as a team had 1 pass defended.

When you consider it was Talib's first game and 2 rookies playing alot of snaps, against a team that has been very successful in the passing game against other teams, last night's performance by the secondary was definately a positive. They have room to slowly improve the rest of the season.

 

[Cassanova792]

There is definately room for improvement, but as a whole this was the best game the secondary played in a while.

Luck was held to a little better than 50%, and outside of a few bad passes and drops, it was because of the coverage. The Patriots had a huge amount of passed defended (11), 8 of which were from the back 4. In comparison, the Colts as a team had 1 pass defended.

When you consider it was Talib's first game and 2 rookies playing alot of snaps, against a team that has been very successful in the passing game against other teams, last night's performance by the secondary was definately a positive. They have room to slowly improve the rest of the season.

I hope so! Hopefully they can keep playing aggressive.

 

[jnug]

JE and Welker have always been different players. JE makes sharper cuts and is more elusive with the ball in his hands. However he also takes more risk with the ball in his hands sometimes going one way but leaving the ball hung out is space going the other. He is not what I would call a steady Eddy.

Welker makes more cuts off of the defender and much of his elusiveness is used to gain some separation between himself and the defender. Welker is more prone to lay out for the ball and go to ground after the catch confident that he has the first down yardage made. JE is more prone to run the route without much deviation and will make more of an effort to stay on his feet looking for yards after the catch. JE is much of a risk taker than Welker is but that is also what can contribute to the feast or famine nature of his game. Welker is the guy more prone to get you your first down on third down even if just by a half yard. JE is more the guy that will catch the ball, juke a defender and end up rattling off another 20 yards. However JE is less prone to making that third down catch and more prone to cough up the ball while he is jukin' and jivin' down the field.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

The Dennard pick six was an unforced error and perhaps a misread by Luck or the WR, but the Talib pick six was forced. Wilfork was in on Luck, and Luck had to adjust his arm motion to not get stripped. It wasn't a play that Talib made, but that shouldn't take away from the fact that our defense created it.

 

[PatsSox363804]

The Dennard pick six was an unforced error and perhaps a misread by Luck or the WR, but the Talib pick six was forced. Wilfork was in on Luck, and Luck had to adjust his arm motion to not get stripped. It wasn't a play that Talib made, but that shouldn't take away from the fact that our defense created it.

The fact that he was in position to even take advantage of the mistake is encouraging.

 

[CityOfChampions]

The fact that he was in position to even take advantage of the mistake is encouraging.

The way he ran it back was encouraging too. :rocker:

 

[Kontradiction]

I came away after the game with what I was expecting before the game: a mixed bag. Talib had an up and down day, but I can blame that on lack of reps and possibly not being in football shape after the suspension.

1. The touchdown that Talib gave up earlier in the game, he had excellent coverage on. The throw by Luck was simply that much better.

2. After the first couple of series, the corners moved into direct press-man and excelled at it, forcing the three and out.

3. Talib looks susceptible, at this moment in time, to double moves. He has burned on a few of them earlier in the game. Then, most notably, he was burned on the T.Y. Hilton TD later in the game. I expect the coaching staff to work with him on this.

4. Dennard had a solid game and it looks like McCourty is becoming more comfortable by the week in his safety role.

Those are the only secondary thoughts for now. I'm re-watching the game tonight and could come back with more info.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

From here on out, if all Talib does is plays as he did yesterday, it'll be a vast improvement over what this team had previously at the corner spot. I'm all for that!

 

[Bhelmet]

The coverage looked better - and so did the pressure. I know they go hand-in-hand, so I hope we see more of the schemes (or at least that mindset) that we saw Sunday. It was fun to watch - far from perfect - but when we have become so used to lousy play the smallest improvement seems so huge.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

From here on out, if all Talib does is plays as he did yesterday, it'll be a vast improvement over what this team had previously at the corner spot. I'm all for that!

With the run D as good as it is, and if the pass rush were to be anywhere near as good as it was yesterday, I too would gladly take those performances from Talib/Dennard even without the pick-6's... especially compared to what we've seen in recent years. Ideally each need to improve a bit, of course they're probably not going to play like #1 corners (Talib may, but I"m not going to depend on that), but they need to play at the level of the 2004 Asante/Randall Gay combo for this defense to have a chance and I think they will.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Dennard pick six was an unforced error and perhaps a misread by Luck or the WR, but the Talib pick six was forced. Wilfork was in on Luck, and Luck had to adjust his arm motion to not get stripped. It wasn't a play that Talib made, but that shouldn't take away from the fact that our defense created it.

Dennard was in position to get that ball whether it was properly thrown or not. Luck was wrong both in his throw's accuracy and in the decision to throw to that receiver in the first place.

 

[borg]

Level of fitness:

The Edelman performance reminded me of a preseason game a few years ago when I felt Edelman was the best athlete on the field. Whatever routine the E-man has in place, keep it going because his moving parts were in sync like I've never seen.

Talib lacked some acceleration. Hopefully some midseason conditioning will get him right

 

[TheBaronPatriot]

What was most encouraging in my opinion is the fact the secondary was competing for balls in the air rather than settle for allowing the WR to make catches and tackle them down. When a ball was coming the DBs were actively trying to make a play on it.

Second, it seems as if the overall strategy is one which will allow the opposing offense to make some plays. Short plays, and many of them thus maximizing our defense's chances to make plays. But with turnovers, they will not be able to outscore our offense.

 

[JMC00]

Seemed liked the Patriots could have about seven or eight ints yesterday

-Talib if he was in peak football shape might have been able to get a better break and intercept that pass in the end zone which Luck threaded in there good
-Dennard had a pass break up where it seemed like if he was about a foot closer to the middle of the field would have had a pick
-The ball Wilfork tipped if Spikes sees it and stays back he probably would have had one
-The one where Gregory broke in front of Mayo and dropped it.

I'm pretty sure there was another one that got tipped and I think it fell right in front of Dennard