The official "our defense is horrible" thread

[condon84]

We are no longer a "bend but don't break" defense.

We are "break, just hopefully not shatter into a million pieces" defense.

LOL. Our defense got bent over and broken. This gangbang's going to last all season. And the big boys' haven't even come to town yet. When we play Indy and GB, I hope they lubricate cause it's gonna be painful.

 

[reflexblue]

Well, when the defense stinks, what else you going to do? Come up with ridiculous excuses?

This team most likely ISN'T going to the super bowl this year, maybe next year or '12. It has a core group of young talented players that are LEARNING. This forum has a group of posters that have no patience and refuse to see that and want instant gratification, your one of them. I think a lot of this group of instant gratification posters grew up in the in the last ten years and think that SB championship grow on trees. It takes time to develop a team good enough to make it all the way. It takes time and luck. The sooner you and the others realize that the sooner the board won't be flooded with threads like this and "do you believe this" or Bench Tom Brady" etc.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

I don't know what a "game track" is.

I watched the game. The Bills moved the ball at will.

Therefore, one can assume, field position was largely irrelevant. I never said they would score touchdowns, only that they would move the ball.

The Bills punted ONCE in yesterday's game.

The assumption that we would have stopped them on the three drives the poster is flippantly throwing out due to field position or a special teams play is not a safe assumption.

The better assumption is that the Bills would have moved the ball with the ease in which they moved the ball all day.

Talk about zero situational awareness.

"Good" and "bad" are subjective terms that applicable within holistic analysis of a full data set.

I just lost a one on one game of basketball, you won. You are "good" and I am "bad". However, I lost 21-15 to Jordan in his prime. You beat a 95 year old, wheel chair bound senior citizen. You need to look at the whole data set.

Look at the stats for all the games yesterday. Denver put up 544 yards of offense. San Diego put up 523 yards of offense. They lost. 544 yards of offense isn't moving the ball "at will"?

Do I need to post the yardage numbers for all the teams?

Three teams "ran up and down" the field yesterday for 500+ yards....and lost.

Five teams had less than 300 yards total offense. Three won.

The "real" Steelers defense gave up 326 yards to an even more horrendous offense.

18 teams gave up more yards yesterday. Add tonight's game and that will be 20 teams.

Again

2010 NFL is about sustaining scoring. This was true in 2009. Look at the Super Bowl teams. Turnovers and redzone defense are more important than ever in evaluating today's defenses.

Are the Bills or Trent Edwards that bad?

30 teams played on Sunday, 18 team defenses did worse than ours.

This is not to say that our defense has issues. However, this thread seems to insist on being willfully ignorant in what is going on in the league in 2010.







In today's NFL, 400 yards of offense is no longer the exception, it's the norm.

 

[TB=TD]

This team most likely ISN'T going to the super bowl this year, maybe next year or '12. It has a core group of young talented players that are LEARNING. This forum has a group of posters that have no patience and refuse to see that and want instant gratification, your one of them. I think a lot of this group of instant gratification posters grew up in the in the last ten years and think that SB championship grow on trees. It takes time to develop a team good enough to make it all the way. It takes time and luck.

Don't forget an Offensive and Defensive coordinator as well.

 

[BelizePats]

This defense is really young and is going to make mistakes throughout the year. That is juts the way it is. Its frustrating to watch as they gain invaluable experience. We can expect very uneven results this year.
My observations

1) Merriweathers lack of development is a big concern. Rather than being an anchor on the D, he is still making the same mistakes he made in year 1 and 2.
2) Chung is a real keeeper! Great instincts, sure tackling and a passion for the game.
3) Zero pass rush which is exposing our your corners. Fitzpatrick has all day to make his reads and check downs.
4) Mayo seems to be getting back into the form we say his rookie year. Lets hope it continues.
5) Thank God for big Vince.
6) Brace is developing which is great to see. As he gains more experience he will be a better player! There is a lot of upside with him.

Its going to be a bumpy ride this year with the D and all we can do is hope that they develop as the season progresses.

The draft next year will be very important for the team (Quinn or DL) and I really hope that some free agent money is finally used on a experienced OLB.

The lack of pass rush has been a fact of life with this D for some time now and its the glaring weakness of the D. Its little wonder that so many QB's are having career best days against us. When you have all day to throw, QB's at the NFL level will produce.

We're 2-1 with a big game coming up on the road against a division opponent. Maybe the D will surprise us? Maybe not. Regardless, its sure beats 1-15 and all those other wretched years we had to sit through where there was little hope in the way of player development. I'll take this current situation any day!!
Respects,

Rich

 

[upstater1]

This defense is really young and is going to make mistakes throughout the year. That is juts the way it is. Its frustrating to watch as they gain invaluable experience. We can expect very uneven results this year.
My observations

1) Merriweathers lack of development is a big concern. Rather than being an anchor on the D, he is still making the same mistakes he made in year 1 and 2.
2) Chung is a real keeeper! Great instincts, sure tackling and a passion for the game.
3) Zero pass rush which is exposing our your corners. Fitzpatrick has all day to make his reads and check downs.
4) Mayo seems to be getting back into the form we say his rookie year. Lets hope it continues.
5) Thank God for big Vince.
6) Brace is developing which is great to see. As he gains more experience he will be a better player! There is a lot of upside with him.

Its going to be a bumpy ride this year with the D and all we can do is hope that they develop as the season progresses.

The draft next year will be very important for the team (Quinn or DL) and I really hope that some free agent money is finally used on a experienced OLB.

The lack of pass rush has been a fact of life with this D for some time now and its the glaring weakness of the D. Its little wonder that so many QB's are having career best days against us. When you have all day to throw, QB's at the NFL level will produce.

We're 2-1 with a big game coming up on the road against a division opponent. Maybe the D will surprise us? Maybe not. Regardless, its sure beats 1-15 and all those other wretched years we had to sit through where there was little hope in the way of player development. I'll take this current situation any day!!
Respects,

Rich

We haven't had a pass rush since Willie McGinest moved on.

 

[condon84]

We haven't had a pass rush since Willie McGinest moved on.

I thought Colvin provided consistent pressure when he was out there. Not to mention, we always had Seymour taking up two blockers and still sometimes getting push up the middle. Where can we find another Seymour?

 

[mcsully]

We haven't had a pass rush since Willie McGinest moved on.

Actually we had a pass rush in 07.. His name was Mike Vrabel..

 

[mgcolby]

I'm a very optimistic fan, but the defense looked atrocious yesterday. Stats are meaningless or misleading. Where those drives started is irrelevant, they were destined to go the length of the field either way when you consider the Bills only punted once. If anything, you could argue that the KO return and short fields spared the Patriots D of the inevitable yardage the Bills were going to pile up against them. If you watched the game, you saw a defense - which for the 3rd straight week - allowed an offense to play better than they have against other competition.

I'm not saying its hopeless, but this defense, as constructed is bad right now. They are missing Warren & Bodden - two key players which would've helped bring some stability to a young defense. The offense, fortunately, is good enough to carry the team in the regular season. The defense has a couple months to improve, and it may. But right now, this is in the bottom third of defenses in the league, easily.

Really, they were destined to go the distance? So starting at the 37 and moving the ball 32 yards and then kicking a FG is destined to go the distance?

Look I'm not saying this is the 2nd coming of the 85 Bears, but when you actually put everything into context the Pats allowed 13 points when the Bills had to drive more than 40 yards to score. They had two crucial picks and played good red zone defense. Those are facts, they are not misleading stats or any of the above.

 

[BradyManny]

In today's NFL, 400 yards of offense is no longer the exception, it's the norm.

Not for the Bills, it's not.

It doesn't matter what the Broncos or Chargers did yesterday.

The Bills offense came into yesterday's game as amongst the worst in the league. Our defense did not perform well.

How do you disagree with that assessment?

 

[mcsully]

This defense is really young and is going to make mistakes throughout the year. That is juts the way it is. Its frustrating to watch as they gain invaluable experience. We can expect very uneven results this year.

Very True and experience will help these guys along
My observations

1) Merriweathers lack of development is a big concern. Rather than being an anchor on the D, he is still making the same mistakes he made in year 1 and 2.

Going to disagree with you.. Even though he's not starting, I see some improvement in his tackling and playing in space deep in teh field..

2) Chung is a real keeeper! Great instincts, sure tackling and a passion for the game.
3) Zero pass rush which is exposing our your corners. Fitzpatrick has all day to make his reads and check downs.
4) Mayo seems to be getting back into the form we say his rookie year. Lets hope it continues.

Mayo is an above avg LB.. Being a top 10 pick, my expectations were he would be a game changer.. If you want to Say someone like Merriweather has regressed, well Mayo has not progressed to anything more than a tackle machine.

5) Thank God for big Vince.
6) Brace is developing which is great to see. As he gains more experience he will be a better player! There is a lot of upside with him.

Its going to be a bumpy ride this year with the D and all we can do is hope that they develop as the season progresses.

The draft next year will be very important for the team (Quinn or DL) and I really hope that some free agent money is finally used on a experienced OLB.

The lack of pass rush has been a fact of life with this D for some time now and its the glaring weakness of the D. Its little wonder that so many QB's are having career best days against us. When you have all day to throw, QB's at the NFL level will produce.

We're 2-1 with a big game coming up on the road against a division opponent. Maybe the D will surprise us? Maybe not. Regardless, its sure beats 1-15 and all those other wretched years we had to sit through where there was little hope in the way of player development. I'll take this current situation any day!!
Respects,

Rich

BB has yet to address two critical areas of needs for us... RB and Pash Rusher.. Its been 3 full seasons of not seeing any production from these positions.. And if you notice, late in games, you need a RB who can eat up the clock.. And a pass rusher to get the other team off the field.. esp when you know they are down by more than one score and will be throwing the ball all the time..


Just to add in.. Unless we change our coordinators or scheme, I don't see us making a run deep into the playoffs.. Just a shame watching KC, with the same personal, turn it around with Crennel..

 

[BradyManny]

Look I'm not saying this is the 2nd coming of the 85 Bears, but when you actually put everything into context the Pats allowed 13 points when the Bills had to drive more than 40 yards to score. They had two crucial picks and played good red zone defense. Those are facts, they are not misleading stats or any of the above.

That is true - they made TOs and played good red zone D. That goes to my point, though - outside of that, they were brutal. Had those drives not begun with good field position, they likely would've ended in Patriots territory anyway. The success the Bills had moving the ball yesterday suggests that.

I agree that we played timely defense. All I was doing was pointing out how your attempt to excuse the Patriots of the 17 points they yielded thanks to ST or field position are not points you can fully excuse them of. It goes under the assumption they would have stymied the Bills offense otherwise, and there is no reason to believe that.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Everybody knows how I feel about this defense. I also don't know why people on this forum are so shocked at what they see. I thought the consensus was that this defense was going to struggle with a rookie CB, a 2nd year CB that was transitioning to full time starter (now benched), a 2nd year S with it's 1st year starting, weak LB's and a make shift DL.

But as bad as they played, this defense made the stop when they needed it the most. I don't care who it's against, they made the play.

 

[moosekill]

Everybody knows how I feel about this defense. I also don't know why people on this forum are so shocked at what they see. I thought the consensus was that this defense was going to struggle with a rookie CB, a 2nd year CB that was transitioning to full time starter (now benched), a 2nd year S with it's 1st year starting, weak LB's and a make shift DL.

But as bad as they played, this defense made the stop when they needed it the most. I don't care who it's against, they made the play.

Ok who are you and what have you done with Hey Bro!??

 

[mgcolby]

I don't know what a "game track" is.

I watched the game. The Bills moved the ball at will.

Therefore, one can assume, field position was largely irrelevant. I never said they would score touchdowns, only that they would move the ball.

The Bills punted ONCE in yesterday's game.

The assumption that we would have stopped them on the three drives the poster is flippantly throwing out due to field position or a special teams play is not a safe assumption.

The better assumption is that the Bills would have moved the ball with the ease in which they moved the ball all day.

First I didn't flippantly throw out anything. Obviously the concept of complimentary football is lost on you. Both the ST's and the Offense left the defense out to dry on several occasions by turning the ball over in their end, not changing field position and shanking a punt.

If you actually watch the game with the understanding of field position, TOP and how the play of the offense, defense and ST's affect each other, you quickly realize the only flippant thing being said is that field position is irrelevant.

2nd it wasn't an assumption it is fact that they scored one TD off of a short field after being in 3 and long. And they were stopped on 3rd down after moving the ball 32 yards and had to settle for a FG. A FG that would not have been possible if Zoltan doesn't shank the punt.

When Buffalo started drives in their territory they had the following results:

2 FG
1 TD
1 Missed FG
2 INT
1 punt

So they have 7 drives start in their territory and they scored 13 points. Yes, they only punted once but turned the ball over twice. So we can just ignore that because that doesn't fit into the overall theme of the defense is terrible.

Again a little perspective is needed. And please tell me when a Pats team under BB didn't give up yardage between the 20's? It is a result of one of the primary concepts of this defense. Keep everything in front of you and make the offense drive down the field in small chunks, the more plays the offense has to make to get into the red zone the more likely hood they make a mistake. And in the red zone tighten it up and get pressure on the QB. It has been this way since 2000 here in NE and it isn't changing anytime soon. Hence why I pointed out the play of the team in the red zone. They would have held them to two FG's instead of a TD and FG if not for Merriweather making one of the worst individual plays I can recall by a Patriot for sometime.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

That is true - they made TOs and played good red zone D. That goes to my point, though - outside of that, they were brutal. Had those drives not begun with good field position, they likely would've ended in Patriots territory anyway. The success the Bills had moving the ball yesterday suggests that.

I agree that we played timely defense. All I was doing was pointing out how your attempt to excuse the Patriots of the 17 points they yielded thanks to ST or field position are not points you can fully excuse them of. It goes under the assumption they would have stymied the Bills offense otherwise, and there is no reason to believe that.

Manny

Good to see you back from the brink.

Again, I would point out that by tomorrow, 20 teams will have surrendered more yardage than our defense did this past week.

This is not to be a rose glasses homer it's a simple fact of the NFL in 2010 that "great" defense will mean a very different concept than a few years back.

Turnovers, turnovers, turnovers

Red zone defense

limited penalties.

Personally, I thought it was pretty pathetic watching the Jets and Dolphins march up the field all game. However, that is the product the vendor has deemed preferable.

Hopefully, this is something that can be built upon and things will improve as the year goes on.

 

[moosekill]

I still think Bledsoe flipping the ball over his head backwards against the Steelers, in the AFC championship was the worst play ever by a Patriot.

 

[Sicilian]

25th in total yards allowed
26th against the pass
21st against the run
20th in points allowed
T-18th in sacks
allowed 23 points to the worst scoring offense in the NFL.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2009 Super Bowl Champion New Orleans Saints.

Our defense is young, inexperienced, and not playing well thus far. They have a chance to get better, and the league has changed. This team can win without them being great.

 

[Rob0729]

With such a young defense, it hard to condemn them this early. Right now, there are six first year starters on that side of the ball. That is a lot of players without experience. It is going to take time for them to get their sea legs. I won't be that critical of them until at least midseason.

I did see some positives yesterday. Also, some of the negatives were mental mistakes which will be improved with experience. They are a long way from being a dominant defense, but by the end of the season they may be good enough to support this offense and give the Pats a lot of promise for the future. I see a lot of upside with McCourty, Brace, Cunninghan, Spikes, and Chung. Whether they all reach that upside is yet to be seen, but we gotta give these first year starters (three of them rookies) time.

 

[stinkypete]

The numbers don't lie. If you cough up 23 offensive points to Ryan Fitzpatrick's Bills, you suck. Just because you suck eek 3 doesn't mean you will ultimately suck in December/January, but for now, the defense sucks.

Most disappointing was the run defense. The Bills exploited the Patriots weakness at OLB not vs. the pass but vs. the run. Lynch and Spiller were nearly unstoppable when they took it outside. This is particularly discouraging given the speed that TBC and Cunningham bring to the table, and that run D was supposed to be Ninkovich's strength.

On a positive note, the inside run defense looks stout enough. Brace was a noticeable presence on some plays and Mayo looked his best since that Jets game in 2008. Spikes had some moments. The secondary, for all its blundering, made plays when it had to.

Prognosis, this is an obviously flawed unit and a work in progress. IMO, the Patriots best bet in 2010 is to unleash the hounds. There are too many holes on this unit for Belichick's "do your job and trust your teammates" mantra to produce results.