The non-Chiefs market for Cassel -- Broncos/Bucs 3-way trade? [mergedx4]

[fair catch fryar]

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

doesn't make sense...Once Belichick had the #34 in hand, don't you think he calls every other possible suiter and says something along the lines of.."I have #34, will you beat it?" That's all it would take.

You would think, but Pioli also knows how BB operates and could've given him some type of time limit or ultimatum and BB might have figured he should act then. We're gonna debate this until more comes out or draft day to see how this drama continues to unfold.

My wife always roll sher eyes when I get all cranked up about this stuff, but this is better than any soap opera or reality tv anyday.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

Based on what?

Schefter says that Denver turned down the deal giving them Cassel and no one in the NFL has better Denver sources than Schefter. That would mean they value Cutler higher.

Pioli never had Cutler as a possibility so we have no idea who he'd have chosen.

Based on the assumption that McDaniels, who now represents Denver, wanted to dump his QB on Tampa and acquire Cassel. Why else would Denver be mentioned if there wasn't an urge to do this? Unless, Denver never even approached anyone and was only approached first only to say, "No". From what I've heard there was discussion between TB and Denver. Personally, I am quite surprised that McDaniels would try to shake up things that quickly, unless he REALLY believes that Cassel is worth it and a better QB than Cutler.

Where did I ever say that there was a possibility of Cutler going to KC?

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: KC only interested Team

Again - people talk about this like it's a two way trade between the Patriots and another team when its not. Cassel and his agent weren't about to OK a trade just anywhere.

Cassel and his agent didn't have much of a choice in the matter since they signed the tender.

However, that being said, any team that wanted Cassel was going to want to have a new deal in place with him prior to the trade.

 

[upstater1]

Re: KC only interested Team

Cassel and his agent didn't have much of a choice in the matter since they signed the tender.

However, that being said, any team that wanted Cassel was going to want to have a new deal in place with him prior to the trade.

Has he signed a deal with KC?

 

[makoute]

Re: KC only interested Team

Cassel and his agent didn't have much of a choice in the matter since they signed the tender.

However, that being said, any team that wanted Cassel was going to want to have a new deal in place with him prior to the trade.

Would you trade a first round player for a one year rental? That's what would happen if you traded Cassel, and he didn't want to sign a long term deal.

 

[DaBruinz]

Wow, Denver is calling for McDaniels' head already. Someone even vandalized his Wikipedia page calling for his resignation. Woody Paige wrote a McDaniels Must Go piece today in the Denver Post, and OrangeMane.com is about to explode.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there a GM in Denver who has final say over personnel moves?

 

[SVN]

Woody Paige - The Denver Post

this is really getting ugly purely because of the media .iam pretty sure if denver or tampa wanted to give the 1st rounder for getting cassel to the pats they wouldve taken it. the fact that denver didnt want to give up cutler makes tampa's offer moot.
Also, also all this couldve happened after the pats sent cassel to KC , in other words-too late.
Media likes controversy so they are now making it seem that denver was in play for cassel ,that too for a direct swap without additional compensaation.it sounds so stupid.

 

[DaBruinz]

How would Cassel have quashed any deal? No one says he HAS to sign with the Chiefs. They can franchise him.

Actually, with the way the CBA stands right now, KC only has to place the TOP RFA tender on him which would be 16.1 million.

As for the rest, since we're all making wild and crazy speculations, Vrabel was thrown in because Belichick didn't want him going back to his home in Ohio to play for Mangini.

He didn't send Cassel to Denver because BB knew that by leaking information out there about the Bronco's willingness to trade Cutler, he could effectively destroy that franchise for the next decade. The Broncos fans, on cue, are already doing the Patriots bidding. BB must have known Cutler was an idiot hothead who openly said he wouldn't be playing for the coaches.

He sent Cassel to KC because he knew Cassel benefited mightily from having Moss and Welker on the field, and that he would not succeed in the AFC.

This part makes no sense. In fact, one could argue that Bowe and Gonzalez are as good as Moss and Welker. So, Cassel will have good receivers to work with there.

With one trade, Belichick hurts three franchises, all for the price of making a selection 15 picks later than would have been otherwise possible.

How did BB hurt 3 franchises? First, its come out that Denver did not go seeking to trade Cutler. So, BB didn't do any damage there. The only damage done was self-inflicted by that immature numbnut, Jay Cutler. Second, Cassel to KC doesn't hurt them. It helps them. KC has a legitimate QB with 2 good youngsters behind him. They also have Gonzalez, Dwayne Bowe and Jamaal Charles. Not to mention Larry Johnson. And it would surprise me to see KC add a RB here in the off-season or in the draft. Especially with the age of Johnson.

I can see where this hurts Cleveland by not having a veteran LB with Vrabel's leadership skills both on the field and in the locker-room.

The only team that was hurt was Cleveland in their not getting Vrabel.

That being said, I can understand where BB could think this was a good deal. I don't agree at this point. Especially if there is any substance to the other rumors floating around about the 19th pick or the 12th pick.

 

[Elway]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there a GM in Denver who has final say over personnel moves?

FWIW, rumour is MCD wanted Cassel and Xanders nixed the idea.

 

[DaBruinz]

Which is why the supposed trade that has the Pats getting the 12th overall pick is ridiculous. Why would Denver trade a probowl very young stud QB straight up for Matt Cassel? That's pretty much what the deal would be. Would anyone here trade Cassel for Cutler straight up, and have to pay Cassel more than you are paying Cutler.

Because Cutler isn't that good of a QB. And he's showing it with his immaturity right now. I find it pretty funny that people are calling Cutler a young stud when he's nothing but a Brett Favre/John Elway wannabe.

 

[rainmaker]

I could see how all these things were happening after a verbal agreement had already been reached and Vrabel was being checked out by KC. If so, then BB did leave some value on the table. But, based on what was available to him at the time, he did the absolute right thing for the Pats franchise. He absolutely could not be stuck with a $14MM backup QB and teams knew that.

However, my guess/speculation is that some discussions did occur, but noone other than KC was ready to pull the trigger and BB gave the other interested teams an ultimatum. The other teams called BB's supposed bluff and found out too late that he was serious. Now, everyone is covering their butts about trying to get Cassel and blaming BB for doing his buddy, Pioli a favor so their fanbase doesn't go crazy when they are realize who is their starting QB next season.

 

[SVN]

Because Cutler isn't that good of a QB. And he's showing it with his immaturity right now. I find it pretty funny that people are calling Cutler a young stud when he's nothing but a Brett Favre/John Elway wannabe.

i personally think cutler is better and has played more than 15 games in the league .he may have maturity issues but doesnt lack talent.if tampa and detriot thought so , they wouldve traded for cassel and not worried about cutler. it think its simply case of timing
pats sent vrabel on thurs and the deal was practically done with KC then. Only after that tampa and det came to the pats and by the time it was too late or BB didnt want to go back on his deal with SP.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: KC only interested Team

Would you trade a first round player for a one year rental? That's what would happen if you traded Cassel, and he didn't want to sign a long term deal.

No. And I've never said that KC should have traded a 1st rounder for Cassel. Not when that 1st rounder is currently the #3 over-all. My proposal had Cassel being traded for a 2nd this and a conditional pick next year which could have been anywhere from a 3rd to a 1st.

Now, take a step back. It came out as soon as Cassel was tendered the Franchise offer, that the Pats had given him permission to talk with other teams about a contract. So teams knew what Cassel was looking for. Any team trading for him would know what sort of contract he would be looking for. So, if a team were going to consummate a trade, they would be ready and willing to do so with the knowledge of what it would take to sign Cassel. They also wouldn't do it unless they knew they could sign him long term. If they made the trade knowing they couldn't sign him long term, that is just dumb on their part. And considering that to keep Cassel for the next 3 years would cost them a minimum of 16.1 , 19.32 and 23.184 million its unlikely.

 

[Wildo7]

i personally think cutler is better and has played more than 15 games in the league .he may have maturity issues but doesnt lack talent.if tampa and detriot thought so , they wouldve traded for cassel and not worried about cutler. it think its simply case of timing
pats sent vrabel on thurs and the deal was practically done with KC then. Only after that tampa and det came to the pats and by the time it was too late or BB didnt want to go back on his deal with SP.

I actually like Cutler as a QB, and once again the media is doing a hatchet job on him. Here's what he's actually said about the situation, and I think it's pretty reasonable:

Video Library - cbs4denver.com

Lombardi: Jay. All kinds of rumors. Earlier today a trade to Tampa, that apparently fell through, now we're hearing Detroit. Tell me your reaction.

Cutler: Um, I'm shocked. I'm a little disappointed obviously. I loved Denver, the city and the fans, the guys we had offensively. So, when I woke up this morning that wasn't exactly the phone calls I was expecting to hear.

L: So now when you hear these rumors and it sounds like maybe Tampa instigated or made a call to the Broncos to say they might be interested in you and now we hear Detroit calling. So do you think in your view are the Broncos shopping you or are other teams saying "hey, we'd love to get Jay Cutler?"

C: Seriously, there are two different takes on this obviously. Obviously the Broncos are going to say that other teams were calling inquiring about me but we've talked about this, you don't hear other teams talking about shopping Eli or Phillip Rivers or Peyton, or any of those guys so obviously they dangled the lines to somebody to let them know obviously that, you know, I was available if the right opportunity came along. That's my feel of the situation.

And, you know I think they're going to cover their tracks and say anything that they want to say at this point and say that I won't be traded and this and that. But, the point is they tried to make a trade for me last night and it didn't go through and now we're back at square one.

L: Jay, why would the Broncos try and trade a third year guy who most people in the NFL think has all the potential in the world?

J: Yeah. I don't know. I think you get comfortable with somebody and I think Cassel is one of those guys who knew the system and they thought they had an opportunity there and you know it didn't work out.

So we're all going to be professional about the situation and we're all going to go back to work. I've still gotta make it happen and I love the guys I play with offensively and hopefully we can still make it work.

L: Well, that's the thing. Can you come back and play? Can you come back and play for coach McDaniels? Will that be a comfortable situation or will that be something that you have to work out? Do you guys need to sit down and discuss this?

C: I don't think there's anything to discuss at this point. Everyone knows what happened. At least everyone important and involved knows what happened. I'm sure we're going to hear a lot of different stories throughout about this, but at this point everyone knows what happened and we're going to have to deal with it. And I think my teammates offensively know what happened.

And we're going to move on and try and learn this new offense and try and get to the Super-bowl and get to the playoffs.

L: Jay do you expect this year that you'll be playing for the Denver Broncos?

J: Hope so. I would love to. It's been my home. I've been dedicated myself to. And like I said the teammates are great, I love playing with the guys we've got we'll see what happens.

 

[SVN]

guess who is cutler's agent ? bus cook - same guy who is brett favre's agent.So he would want cutler traded so he can get a new deal elsewhere and more money

 

[wpdougie2180]

ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports that the Patriots turned down a package from the Bucs in a possible three-way Matt Cassel deal that included a first- and third-round pick.

 

[upstater1]

I actually like Cutler as a QB, and once again the media is doing a hatchet job on him. Here's what he's actually said about the situation, and I think it's pretty reasonable:

Video Library - cbs4denver.com

He was quoted elsewhere as saying something much much worse. He said he's not going to play for the coaches but for the players. He implied the players are on his side, not the coaches.

 

[upstater1]

Actually, with the way the CBA stands right now, KC only has to place the TOP RFA tender on him which would be 16.1 million.



This part makes no sense. In fact, one could argue that Bowe and Gonzalez are as good as Moss and Welker. So, Cassel will have good receivers to work with there.



How did BB hurt 3 franchises? First, its come out that Denver did not go seeking to trade Cutler. So, BB didn't do any damage there. The only damage done was self-inflicted by that immature numbnut, Jay Cutler. Second, Cassel to KC doesn't hurt them. It helps them. KC has a legitimate QB with 2 good youngsters behind him. They also have Gonzalez, Dwayne Bowe and Jamaal Charles. Not to mention Larry Johnson. And it would surprise me to see KC add a RB here in the off-season or in the draft. Especially with the age of Johnson.

I can see where this hurts Cleveland by not having a veteran LB with Vrabel's leadership skills both on the field and in the locker-room.

The only team that was hurt was Cleveland in their not getting Vrabel.

That being said, I can understand where BB could think this was a good deal. I don't agree at this point. Especially if there is any substance to the other rumors floating around about the 19th pick or the 12th pick.

Err, did you miss the part of my post that said I am going to make wild speculations because everyone is so fond of these?

But, Denver was indeed hurt by all this. Badly. That part of the speculation isn't wild. I said Belichick knew Cutler would react like an idiot.

 

[upstater1]

FWIW, rumour is MCD wanted Cassel and Xanders nixed the idea.

Unless Denver is a totally dysfunctional franchise that rumor makes no sense.

It only makes sense if McDaniels was on the phone trying to cut a deal on his own. How could Xanders not know what McD was up to? Makes no sense. Who cuts the deals in Denver?

 

[Elway]

Unless Denver is a totally dysfunctional franchise that rumor makes no sense.

It only makes sense if McDaniels was on the phone trying to cut a deal on his own. How could Xanders not know what McD was up to? Makes no sense. Who cuts the deals in Denver?

The rumour is that the Broncos received a call about a potential 3 way deal involving TB. MCD wanted to do the deal to get his guy but Xanders did not. After much deliberation, Xanders put the kibosh to the deal as he has full authority over personnel.