The non-Chiefs market for Cassel -- Broncos/Bucs 3-way trade? [mergedx4]

[Patjew]

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

Many of us got taken in but the media "reports" of Cassels value since the end of the season.

Once again, BB would not let friendship or fondness for players get in his way of making the best deal he could for the NE Patriots. His history proves that.

Now reports in the media surface that other, better deals were waiting and BB passed them up. Hard for me to believe.

Impossible for me.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

Why is that?

Because I think so? I don't like Cutler and think Cassel has proved he can be a good qb at the NFL level. Why bring in a malcontent that couldn't get it done consistently under one of the best offensive coaches in the NFL with a solid offense? Why do you think think the way you do?

 

[Patjew]

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

Because I think so? I don't like Cutler and think Cassel has proved he can be a good qb at the NFL level. Why bring in a malcontent that couldn't get it done consistently under one of the best offensive coaches in the NFL with a solid offense? Why do you think think the way you do?

Because Cutler's stats are the same or better than Cassel's were last year and he's proven to be a good QB over 3 years instead of just 1.

 

[fumbrunner]

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

Because I think so? I don't like Cutler and think Cassel has proved he can be a good qb at the NFL level. Why bring in a malcontent that couldn't get it done consistently under one of the best offensive coaches in the NFL with a solid offense? Why do you think think the way you do?

Some teams may prefer what they have seen out of Cutler rather than Cassel, who may still be a one year wonder/system quarterback. Who knows? Looks like both TB and Det wanted Cutler and not Cassel. KC and Den were the only potential destinations. I agree that the Pats may have been caught with their pants down, verbally agreeing to a trade that included Vrabel rather than trading for TBs 1st and 3rd round draft picks, as reported by ESPN.

As reported on rotoworld:
ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports that the Patriots turned down a package from the Bucs in a possible three-way Matt Cassel deal that included a first- and third-round pick.

In this scenario, the Patriots would have received the picks, Denver would get Matt Cassel, and Tampa would get Jay Cutler. But there has to be more to the story. Why would the Patriots turn down better picks? One admittedly speculative guess is that the deal with the Chiefs was already verbally agreed to at this point, and the Patriots couldn't back out. Mike Vrabel, after all, was in Kansas City Friday.

 

[MetalBleachers]

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

your assuming 2 things

1) Dever would have pulled the trigger (there are conflicting reports they would have). Had they hedged even a little, the "bird in hand" KC deal could have been comprimised, leaving the Pats holding their D!cks and Cassel.
.

Who's **** Sandcastle?

 

[PatsDeb]

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

Some teams may prefer what they have seen out of Cutler rather than Cassel, who may still be a one year wonder/system quarterback. Who knows? Looks like both TB and Det wanted Cutler and not Cassel. KC and Den were the only potential destinations. I agree that the Pats may have been caught with their pants down, verbally including a trade that included Vrabel rather than trading for TBs 1st and 3rd round draft picks, as reported by ESPN.

ESPN is the source for this story? Now we know to take it with a big grain of salt. What seems to be missing from the equation is that Denver would have agreed to do this deal. I'd say it is more slanted reporting to make the Pats, and particularly BB, look like dummies. Report a "deal" that had no chance of working (because one of the participants wasn't willing) and say the Pats COULD have had this deal, but they inexplicably went with another lesser (BUT ACTUAL) deal. Sheeesh.

 

[GoPats]

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

Here is something to think about:

Once the Pats franchised Cassell at $14mil, they lost leverage since all teams knew the Pats wouldn't keep him due to the salary cap. BB knew that whatever they got for Cassell was gravy because they could have let him go to free agency and wait til next year to get a compensatory pick. Let's all not put Cassell in Canton yet either. As well as he did in NE last year, we have to admit, the NE offense is pretty well stocked and has a great system. He did much better than expected but to assume he is a top 10 qb is a stretch after one year of starting. He will have his ups and downs this year and going forward. The KC offense is not as good as NE.

The only head scratcher is losing Vrabel. But it is quite possible that the $1mil roster bonus due was the deciding factor. We are in tough economic times, and Patriots Place is not doing so well. This may be the impetus for letting him go. Rather than release Vrabel, the Pats gave him to KC since KC was willing to pay Vrable the bonus.

 

[MetalBleachers]

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

Some teams may prefer what they have seen out of Cutler rather than Cassel, who may still be a one year wonder/system quarterback. Who knows? Looks like both TB and Det wanted Cutler and not Cassel. KC and Den were the only potential destinations. I agree that the Pats may have been caught with their pants down, verbally including a trade that included Vrabel rather than trading for TBs 1st and 3rd round draft picks, as reported by ESPN.

Listen, I love Matt Cassel and love the Pats for holding on to him in September despite a preseason performance that boosted the sales of antacids in the New England area, but we don't know how he'll do without Moss and Welker and Faulk and their YAC. He's an accurate, solid passer with good feet who will improve on Thigpen's 52 percent completion rate, and I think the Vikings made a big mistake signing Rosenfumbles, but there you go.

The Pats drafted a non-starting college QB in the seventh round, developed him, got 11 wins and an exciting season out of him, then let him go as part of a deal to get the 35th pick in a deep draft. It's disappointing, especially after convincing ourselves he was worth two firsts, a veteran DB and 90 minutes with a professional masseuse, but let's wait a bit until calling this a disaster.

 

[DarrylS]

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

Here is something to think about:

Once the Pats franchised Cassell at $14mil, they lost leverage since all teams knew the Pats wouldn't keep him due to the salary cap. BB knew that whatever they got for Cassell was gravy because they could have let him go to free agency and wait til next year to get a compensatory pick. Let's all not put Cassell in Canton yet either. As well as he did in NE last year, we have to admit, the NE offense is pretty well stocked and has a great system. He did much better than expected but to assume he is a top 10 qb is a stretch after one year of starting. He will have his ups and downs this year and going forward. The KC offense is not as good as NE.

The only head scratcher is losing Vrabel. But it is quite possible that the $1mil roster bonus due was the deciding factor. We are in tough economic times, and Patriots Place is not doing so well. This may be the impetus for letting him go. Rather than release Vrabel, the Pats gave him to KC since KC was willing to pay Vrable the bonus.

The first part of your post makes sense.. but the second makes none, how Pats place does or does not do has little impact on the way the Pats do business... they will spend right up to their salary cap limits, they always do.

 

[pats1]

Wow, Denver is calling for McDaniels' head already. Someone even vandalized his Wikipedia page calling for his resignation. Woody Paige wrote a McDaniels Must Go piece today in the Denver Post, and OrangeMane.com is about to explode.

 

[MetalBleachers]

Link? Or are you being ironic?

I'm a bit slow.

 

[PatsDeb]

Wow, Denver is calling for McDaniels' head already. Someone even vandalized his Wikipedia page calling for his resignation. Woody Paige wrote a McDaniels Must Go piece today in the Denver Post, and OrangeMane.com is about to explode.

All because of ESPN! Do they want his head for trying to do this deal? Or not trying to do it?

 

[DarrylS]

Wow, Denver is calling for McDaniels' head already. Someone even vandalized his Wikipedia page calling for his resignation. Woody Paige wrote a McDaniels Must Go piece today in the Denver Post, and OrangeMane.com is about to explode.

Coach McDaniels meet the "what have you done for me today short attention span idle bored press"... jeez hope BB taught him how to have thick skin.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

Because Cutler's stats are the same or better than Cassel's were last year and he's proven to be a good QB over 3 years instead of just 1.

I see your point, but I believe the upside for Cassel is more attractive. Sure, there are more stats of 3 years of work for Cutler, but with the 19th pick I don't think there is that much of agamble considering that a legit starter is up for grabs. I know I'm biased and I hate anything Bronco, but I still believe Cassel is and will be the better QB from what I've seen this year.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Why not? The lion's are stupid and would've gave him lot of $$$!

NO, they are stupid because they don't invest money in the one postion they need desperately. Which, by the way, pokes a hole in your argument.

I suspect that this is just a little bit of BB helping out his former partner with whom he's had much success.

Only in so much that he threw in a guy he was probably gonna cut anyway to make this a little more palalable for KC. They (KC) are taking a risk here, people need to realize that. HUGE upside, but still many unknowns.

The proof is in the "no long term exstention is part of the trade" (which is almost a no-brainer if you have complete confidence this is the QB of the franchise guy). He's playing under the tender this year. which is smart on KC's part.

Getting a proven locker room guy, even with diminished field skills, make that risk somewhat buffered.

 

[pats1]

All because of ESPN! Do they want his head for trying to do this deal? Or not trying to do it?

Link? Or are you being ironic?

I'm a bit slow.

Heat is on McDaniels - NFL Nation - ESPN

The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community

The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community

The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community

 

[DarrylS]

Heat is on McDaniels - NFL Nation - ESPN

Do not want to register for the Orange Mange board... but the ESPN article seems to allude more to the damage he did with Cutler, instead of not pulling the trigger on the trade for Cassel.

McDaniels apparently concluded that he would rather have Cassel than Cutler in Denver. Cassel starred under McDaniels in New England last season as an injury replacement for Tom Brady.

Five league insiders I polled Saturday consider Cutler a better player than Cassel. However, it is within McDaniels' right to pursue Cassel.

Now that the trade wasn't made and it's public, the heat is on McDaniels. He will have to quickly repair a damaged relationship with his most important player or trade Cutler. But then he'll have to find another quarterback to take over in Denver. That is not going to be easy.

 

[Patjew]

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

I see your point, but I believe the upside for Cassel is more attractive. Sure, there are more stats of 3 years of work for Cutler, but with the 19th pick I don't think there is that much of agamble considering that a legit starter is up for grabs. I know I'm biased and I hate anything Bronco, but I still believe Cassel is and will be the better QB from what I've seen this year.

Sure, he definitely might be. But if NFL teams don't think that he is or definitely will be, they're more likely to valude Cutler more at this time.

 

[pats1]

Do not want to register for the Orange Mange board... but the ESPN article seems to allude more to the damage he did with Cutler, instead of not pulling the trigger on the trade for Cassel.

That's alright. Most of those threads are just "what the **** is this ****" anyway.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Re: We could have had pick #19 and KEPT Vrabel

Sure, he definitely might be. But if NFL teams don't think that he is or definitely will be, they're more likely to valude Cutler more at this time.

Anyways, I'm still glad he's not in Denver. It'd be hard to root for him there.