The "Edelman experiment"

[Ring 6]

0 rings with WW, hundreds of catches but drops the one that matters most

So having the most productive WR in the NFL since 2007 is the reason we have no rings since 2007?
Might was well just say that we can win because we don't have Ken Walter as our punter any more.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Edelman was having a good game playing on the outside in the Baltimore game. But it's no myster that, once Welker's playing time increased, the offense started to move the ball through the air much better. Welker should be re-signed. There's no doubt about it. Receivers with his skillset and understanding of the offense and where Brady likes to go don't grow on trees.

Can't we re-tag him at like 11 mil this offseason? I'd be perfectly fine with that because the ultimate fear is giving him mucho dinero and him losing his skill set over the span of a long-term deal. He wasn't going to get 20 mil guaranteed in a long-term deal.

 

[RodThePat]

Can't we re-tag him at like 11 mil this offseason? I'd be perfectly fine with that because the ultimate fear is giving him mucho dinero and him losing his skill set over the span of a long-term deal. He wasn't going to get 20 mil guaranteed in a long-term deal.

You're out of your mind if you think Welker will accept getting franchised again.

 

[DaBruinz]

You're out of your mind if you think Welker will accept getting franchised again.

If the Pats were to Franchise Welker again, he'd have 3 choices:

1) Accept the franchise tag
2) Reach a deal that is longer than the franchise tag
3) Sit out and get nothing.

He doesn't have a choice beyond that..

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. Does Edelman have compromising pictures of Robert Kraft and that blonde girl? Why is our offense so much better every time he is on the sideline? Edelman: good punt returner, great gritty guy, hard worker, team player, but ultimately a huge liability on offense. This team would be better without him if they cannot resist the temptation to put him on the field with the offense.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. Does Edelman have compromising pictures of Robert Kraft and that blonde girl? Why is our offense so much better every time he is on the sideline? Edelman: good punt returner, great gritty guy, hard worker, team player, but ultimately a huge liability on offense. This team would be better without him if they cannot resist the temptation to put him on the field with the offense.

Ravens game:

Edelman in = 20 points
Edelman out = 10 points

 

[DocHoliday]

Ravens game:

Edelman in = 20 points
Edelman out = 10 points

I don't understand why people don't get it.

They're not the same player and have different skills.

How many times have we concluded that IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MATCHUP?

 

[fumbrunner]

I don't understand why people don't get it.

They're not the same player and have different skills.

How many times have we concluded that IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MATCHUP?

I respectfully disagree. Welker should not be as limited as he was early in the year, regardless of matchups. He is a difference-maker. Having Edelman in there because "he blocks better" is ridiculous, in my opinion.

 

[BananaRepublican]

They're not the same player and have different skills.

I prefer to think of this as isolated roles with Julian pulling duty outside the numbers, and Wes sharing with Hernandez underneath.

Wes' real snap count is probably determined by how often they want Aaron to line up tight or go underneath. I think maybe a lot of emotional energy is confused by this "Mini Me" character that was really nothing more than a fill in during time of injury. He's not Mini Me. He's an outside receiver.

 

[BananaRepublican]

Can't we re-tag him at like 11 mil this offseason? .

As we say in the bush of Central Amereeka that's demasiado dinero gringo. Err, too much money. If they ever paid a slot receiver 11 million I'd immediately look to the sky for incoming.

Nobody can agree on what Wes is worth. Brady calls him, "the best player on the team" and the team calls him a product of the system. I'll tell you who wins that disagreement and it's not Brady.

And Brady may be full of crap to begin with since somebody like, oh, an OC figures on using one of his TEs to replace Wes right before our very eyes. That is reality. The other stuff is not reality. The Brady comments are pure political correctness. When you think about it, that's about all that Brady ever says.

 

[BananaRepublican]

I respectfully disagree. Welker should not be as limited as he was early in the year, regardless of matchups. He is a difference-maker.

I would like to present evidence that Wes is not as big a difference maker underneath as Aaron, and outside as Julian. The evidence is what the OC thinks about that. Unless Josh is out of his mind, Wes is not as big a difference maker as who they can put on the field at various spots.

But I certainly do think that matchups count, and that Wes could match up with a somebody better than Aaron. Aaron is quick but he's not Wes quick. Aaron needs different matchups than Wes. I think they've got a handle on it - a better handle than the fans. There are some smart fans here but come on, they are not coaching and evaluating these guys every day. They are not designing with the ability to implement and see the results in practice.

 

[PatsDeb]

Too bad he wasn't the #1 slot receiver at all this year. Do yourself a favor and go back to pretending to know music..

On that note, Run DMC and the Grateful Dead symbol just don't mesh, ya know?

 

[Kontradiction]

Can't we re-tag him at like 11 mil this offseason? I'd be perfectly fine with that because the ultimate fear is giving him mucho dinero and him losing his skill set over the span of a long-term deal. He wasn't going to get 20 mil guaranteed in a long-term deal.

Welker has shown absolutely no signs whatsoever of slowing down. Why wouldn't you want to give him a 3 year deal and lock him up?

 

[Deus Irae]

I would like to present evidence that Wes is not as big a difference maker underneath as Aaron, and outside as Julian. The evidence is what the OC thinks about that. Unless Josh is out of his mind, Wes is not as big a difference maker as who they can put on the field at various spots.

But I certainly do think that matchups count, and that Wes could match up with a somebody better than Aaron. Aaron is quick but he's not Wes quick. Aaron needs different matchups than Wes. I think they've got a handle on it - a better handle than the fans. There are some smart fans here but come on, they are not coaching and evaluating these guys every day. They are not designing with the ability to implement and see the results in practice.

Wes Welker has 554 receptions in his 5 full seasons with the Patriots. He's helped the team get to 2 Super Bowls, and his absence was a large part of why the Patriots got waxed in the 2009 playoff game against the Ravens.

This year, despite the nonsense the Patriots were pulling with the receivers in the first couple of games, Welker's back on the leader board in both receptions (10th) and yards (8th).

Edelman and Hernandez have done nothing to even approach him.

 

[BrickPat]

WW hasn't slowed down a bit. While I think JE has a place on the team it shouldn't be at the expense of a more impact player. Some can pontificate to the contrary if they choose not believe their lying eyes.

WW >JE

 

[supafly]

Can't we re-tag him at like 11 mil this offseason? He wasn't going to get 20 mil guaranteed in a long-term deal.

So the answer is to give him that 20 million guaranteed that he "wasn't going to get" by the end of next season then? If the team didn't want to give him that kind of guaranteed money over 3+ yrs, then why would they want to do it over 2?

I wouldn't think that there is much of a chance of the team giving Welker another franchise tag, unless it's done with the thinking that they aren't too far away and will almost certainly come to a reasonable agreement on a 2-3 yr deal prior to the middle of July 2013.

I think there's a chance that he does end up staying, but he'll have to temper his demands a bit to do so, and it will have to be on a deal of at least 2 yrs.

I seriously doubt that Belichick will be okay with paying our slot WR 11+ million for next season's salary, but that's just my opinion.

 

[supafly]

Welker has shown absolutely no signs whatsoever of slowing down. Why wouldn't you want to give him a 3 year deal and lock him up?

I couldn't agree with you more, Kontra, but that's a million dollar question that the front office should have answered prior to mid-July of this past summer. Considering that they didn't choose to answer it in a positive way prior to this season makes me think that they will be just as hesitant moving forward. The thought exists that if he tempers his demands a bit, something may end up coming to fruition over 2 yrs for 2013 and 2014.

The whole damn situation is just kind of bizarre in my opinion.

It is possible (although not likely) that the thinking was that they would consider ending up paying him his 20 million guaranteed asking price anyway, but they would do it on their terms in a conservative year-to-year manner, making sure that his production this season was worth it for 2013. We'll know that may have been the case if they somehow end up franchising him again next season and paying him the 11 million+.

The gamble in that scenario of course would be the thought that they could have gotten another year onto the deal of 20 million guaranteed, thus making it over 3 yrs, instead of simply breaking it down cautiously over this year and next in a 2 yr installment.

 

[Ring 6]

So the answer is to give him that 20 million guaranteed that he "wasn't going to get" by the end of next season then? If the team didn't want to give him that kind of guaranteed money over 3+ yrs, then why would they want to do it over 2?

I wouldn't think that there is much of a chance of the team giving Welker another franchise tag, unless it's done with the thinking that they aren't too far away and will almost certainly come to a reasonable agreement on a 2-3 yr deal prior to the middle of July 2013.

I think there's a chance that he does end up staying, but he'll have to temper his demands a bit to do so, and it will have to be on a deal of at least 2 yrs.

I seriously doubt that Belichick will be okay with paying our slot WR 11+ million for next season's salary, but that's just my opinion.

I find it so insulting to call Welker a 'slot receiver'. It is clearly meant to demean.

Last year Wes Welker had the 19th highest receiving yards total in a single season in NFL history.

Some perspective on that:
-Only 2 active players have ever had a season with more. C Johnson last year, and A Johnson in 08 (plus he tied it in 09).
-Jerry Rice's 2nd best season was 1 yard more than Welkers 2011.

Welkers season so far would project over a 16 game schedule to be the 27th highest single season receiving yards ever.

BB better want to pay whatever it takes to get that.

 

[Sciz]

I find it so insulting to call Welker a 'slot receiver'. It is clearly meant to demean.

For the last game and a half before Edelman got hurt, that's all Welker was, though.

 

[supafly]

I find it so insulting to call Welker a 'slot receiver'. It is clearly meant to demean.

Well, demeaning him was certainly not the intent, but isn't it fair to call him a slot WR when he plays the slot?

Realizing his production, obvious importance, and stats---he still lacks the ability to be able to stretch the field vertically, which is what most other WR's of that caliber are able to do for that kind of money.

Just for the record, I want Welker to stay and finish his career here just as badly as anyone else, I simply think that it will take a 2 yr deal with guarantees that were less than this year.

I'm not sure if Belichick would have felt comfortable paying 11+ million to Randy Moss is his heyday on the second consectutive year of being franchised, it's not necessarily meant as a sign of disrespect towards Welker.