The 2013 Prospect Thread

[mackenzie45220]

anyone else think Matthew is going to go off the board a lot higher than most people think? Cant see him lasting to the 5th round which some have predicted. He's overcome his problem with weed, which wasn't a big deal in the first place.

Forget about the intangibles. He's a corner who can't cover. He does everything, and I mean everything, else very effectively, but he's still a corner who can't cover.

 

[captain stone]

Didn't Aaron Hernandez fail multiple drug tests due to marijuana use in college? If the player has the talent and ability I'm not sure how concerned BB is about weed, once the player convinces him it's in the past and won't be repeated.

Hernandez played a full season the year before he was drafted; the dummy badger didn't.

 

[everlong]

From tony Pauline:



https://twitter.com/TonyPauline/status/304984352826224640

I'm still tempted. But at the very least, another prospect probably drops to us.

I think Menelik Watson's 3-Cone and shuttle move him down but also might make him undraftable by the Patriots.

 

[DaBruinz]

Didn't Aaron Hernandez fail multiple drug tests due to marijuana use in college? If the player has the talent and ability I'm not sure how concerned BB is about weed, once the player convinces him it's in the past and won't be repeated.

Hernandez was never arrested over it nor was he kicked off the football team as Mathieu was..

 

[manxman2601]

I think Menelik Watson's 3-Cone and shuttle move him down but also might make him undraftable by the Patriots.

Was disappointed in his combine performance so I hesitantly agree.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Was disappointed in his combine performance so I hesitantly agree.

I wouldn't evaluate him by the same process as US college players. A regular college player has run drills like these literally hundreds of times. It's 2nd nature to them. Watson hasn't done them as often as a US high school player. I would put more emphasis on his triangle numbers. Height, weight, speed. How strong he is. Bring him in and have Scar work him out. Let him decide if he thinks Watson has the footwork to play RT in this league.

 

[manxman2601]

Interesting to see that teams are apparently asking Terron Armstead to run TE drills at his pro day. Only 5 TE's ran faster than Armstead at the combine.

I did say that if the Pats drafted him, they could use him as a 3rd TE until Scar had done his work on him.

I also note that CBS have him ranked as #50 now. I still like him, but that's getting very rich.

 

[DaBruinz]

So, I FINALLY took the time to watch the Senior Bowl. Here are my takes:

1) Ziggy Ansah is not HYPE. They are going to be comparing JPP to Ansah when all is said and done. Whoever lands him is landing a kid who will be an All-Pro.. He was a man among boys at the game

2) Lane Johnson, in my honest opinion, should be in the top 20.. If he falls to the Pats, he's a no brainer selection. He can play both the Left and Right Tackle position.

3) Jordan Poyer could be a poor man's Ed Reed in the NFL. I like this kid alot. Plays better than his timings.

4) I'd love for the Pats to add Brian Schwenke. I think he could step in this year and be the starting center and be better than Connolly or Wendell. Schwenke handled Sylvester Williams 1 on 1 all game long and stood up well against Kawann Short, who dominated the other guards and centers.

5) I am very surprised that Robbie Rouse ran so slowly at the combine. At the Senior Bowl he showed plenty of speed to get outside and was a bowling ball insidel. Supposedly he's good at blitz pick-ups as well despite being 5'05 7/8.

6) None of the CBs really stood out to me this year. Unlike two years ago where Richard Sherman really stood out.

 

[manxman2601]

So, I FINALLY took the time to watch the Senior Bowl. Here are my takes:

1) Ziggy Ansah is not HYPE. They are going to be comparing JPP to Ansah when all is said and done. Whoever lands him is landing a kid who will be an All-Pro.. He was a man among boys at the game and made Terron Armstead look foolish all game long.

2) Lane Johnson, in my honest opinion, should be in the top 20.. If he falls to the Pats, he's a no brainer selection. He can play both the Left and Right Tackle position.

3) Jordan Poyer could be a poor man's Ed Reed in the NFL. I like this kid alot. Plays better than his timings.

4) I'd love for the Pats to add Brian Schwenke. I think he could step in this year and be the starting center and be better than Connolly or Wendell. Schwenke handled Sylvester Williams 1 on 1 all game long and stood up well against Kawann Short, who dominated the other guards and centers.

5) I am very surprised that Robbie Rouse ran so slowly at the combine. At the Senior Bowl he showed plenty of speed to get outside and was a bowling ball insidel. Supposedly he's good at blitz pick-ups as well despite being 5'05 7/8.

6) None of the CBs really stood out to me this year. Unlike two years ago where Richard Sherman really stood out.

Are you certain that Ziggy lined up opposite Terron Armstead? I'll have to rewatch but my recollection was that Ziggy lined up over the RT whilst Armstead played LT and only came in in the 2nd half.

But you are right on Ziggy. He was a beast. And you are also right on Lane Johnson - perfect Patriots fit for what they like to have at OT.

 

[DaBruinz]

Are you certain that Ziggy lined up opposite Terron Armstead? I'll have to rewatch but my recollection was that Ziggy lined up over the RT whilst Armstead played LT and only came in in the 2nd half.

But you are right on Ziggy. He was a beast. And you are also right on Lane Johnson - perfect Patriots fit for what they like to have at OT.

I stand corrected... Ansah and Armstead were on the same squad. It was Datone Jones who beat Armstead on the one play I was thinking of... Sorry about that

 

[mackenzie45220]

I wouldn't evaluate him by the same process as US college players. A regular college player has run drills like these literally hundreds of times. It's 2nd nature to them. Watson hasn't done them as often as a US high school player. I would put more emphasis on his triangle numbers. Height, weight, speed. How strong he is. Bring him in and have Scar work him out. Let him decide if he thinks Watson has the footwork to play RT in this league.

This is very true. Something else to keep in mind; some players just try to make sure they are in shape for the combine. There's more than that to drills. You can coach a guy how to succeed with certain drills and use good technique for maximum results, i.e. Mike Mamula. Some players spend less time practicing the vertical, use a poor stance in the forty, etc. But they are just as athletic as others. Watson may fall in that category

 

[manxman2601]

Ziggy was lining up LDE or RDE depending on the play. And, yes, I'm sure it was against Armstead because, when I saw it happen, I couldn't believe my eyes, rewound it and rewatched it 3 more times to make sure I was seeing exactly what was happening..

Just watched this cut up of Terrn Armstead's snaps at the Senior Bowl. According to this he almost exclusively lined up against Datone Jones or Margus Hunt. Not one against Ansah. Armstead is #71. Is that the same same person you are looking at?

Terron Armstead (LT Arkansas-Pine Bluff) Senior Bowl - YouTube

Armstead didn't have a great game though - gave up two sacks so I'm not desperately trying to defend a binky.

Edit: I'm not saying you are wrong - perhaps the cut up is only showing Armstead's LT snaps.

 

[DaBruinz]

Just watched this cut up of Terrn Armstead's snaps at the Senior Bowl. According to this he almost exclusively lined up against Datone Jones or Margus Hunt. Not one against Ansah. Armstead is #71. Is that the same same person you are looking at?

Terron Armstead (LT Arkansas-Pine Bluff) Senior Bowl - YouTube

Armstead didn't have a great game though - gave up two sacks so I'm not desperately trying to defend a binky.

Edit: I'm not saying you are wrong - perhaps the cut up is only showing Armstead's LT snaps.

That film only had the 1st two quarters.. But I stand corrected as Ansah and Armstead were on the same squad. It was Jones. I thought it said 47, but it as 57.. sorry about that..

 

[patsfaninpa]

That film only had the 1st two quarters.. But I stand corrected as Ansah and Armstead were on the same squad. It was Jones. I thought it said 47, but it as 57.. sorry about that..

I wouldn't be against drafting Datone Jones either. Doesn't sound like he's going to make it to 29 any longer. Maybe we can get Freeney in free-agency and won't need a de.

 

[mackenzie45220]

Just wrote about Knile Davis.
Knile Davis- 2013 NFL Draft Scouting Report
His burst is back, but he has some other problems.

 

[mackenzie45220]

Emory Blake
Emory Blake- 2013 NFL Draft Scouting Report
Underrated, runs beautiful routes.

 

[Wilfork#75]

I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but does anyone else think Tavon Austin is overrated? I know he obviously has talent, he is a freak athlete with incredible speed, but I just have a hard time seeing how that is going to translate to the NFL. My biggest issue is I don't see him having a set position. Sure he is versatile, but he is a guy you have to build your offense around, not use him to fit your offense.

I know most people think he is a slot receiver based off his size, but I don't think he has the bulk and physicality to consistently make those tough catches inside. Welker might be short, but he is quite thick and is undoubtedly tough and that is a very underrated trait of a slow WR. I just don't see that with Austin. Even with his speed I think he will struggle lining up on the outside against bigger CB's and I think there is only so much you can do with him in the running game. He doesn't have the size to run between the tackles and you can become predictable if he only runs draws or to the outside. My issue is do you spend a high pick on a guy that can do a little of everything, but apart from being fast isn't great at anything. He can obviously make big plays, I don't think anyone will doubt that, but to be a 1st round value he needs to be a consistent contributor as well as a playmaker. I just don't see him being a good enough pure WR or RB to be on the field for considerable snaps.

To me he is the Dion Jordan of offensive players. He is a freak athlete, certainly has talent, but I just don't know how you can use him to get enough value out of him. I think being versatile is great, but I also think you need a base role on a team and I personally don't see that role for either guy. I think if the value were lower I would take a shot at him, but I also think we have a guy in Demps who offers a similar skillset (if he doesn't leave to run track). I love watching Austin play and I think he was the most exciting player in college football. But that doesn't mean he will make a great pro and I certainly wouldn't use a 1st round pick on him.

 

[Nehalem]

I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but does anyone else think Tavon Austin is overrated? I know he obviously has talent, he is a freak athlete with incredible speed, but I just have a hard time seeing how that is going to translate to the NFL. My biggest issue is I don't see him having a set position. Sure he is versatile, but he is a guy you have to build your offense around, not use him to fit your offense.

I know most people think he is a slot receiver based off his size, but I don't think he has the bulk and physicality to consistently make those tough catches inside. Welker might be short, but he is quite thick and is undoubtedly tough and that is a very underrated trait of a slow WR. I just don't see that with Austin. Even with his speed I think he will struggle lining up on the outside against bigger CB's and I think there is only so much you can do with him in the running game. He doesn't have the size to run between the tackles and you can become predictable if he only runs draws or to the outside. My issue is do you spend a high pick on a guy that can do a little of everything, but apart from being fast isn't great at anything. He can obviously make big plays, I don't think anyone will doubt that, but to be a 1st round value he needs to be a consistent contributor as well as a playmaker. I just don't see him being a good enough pure WR or RB to be on the field for considerable snaps.

To me he is the Dion Jordan of offensive players. He is a freak athlete, certainly has talent, but I just don't know how you can use him to get enough value out of him. I think being versatile is great, but I also think you need a base role on a team and I personally don't see that role for either guy. I think if the value were lower I would take a shot at him, but I also think we have a guy in Demps who offers a similar skillset (if he doesn't leave to run track). I love watching Austin play and I think he was the most exciting player in college football. But that doesn't mean he will make a great pro and I certainly wouldn't use a 1st round pick on him.

I more or less agree with your assessment. I don't see Austin as a fit for what the Pats need. We run a 2TE offense and all year people talk about how we need better outside WR (who aren't smurfs) to spread out the field. And then people want to spend our 1 round pick on a faster smurfier Welker

 

[kennyb]

This is very true. Something else to keep in mind; some players just try to make sure they are in shape for the combine. There's more than that to drills. You can coach a guy how to succeed with certain drills and use good technique for maximum results, i.e. Mike Mamula. Some players spend less time practicing the vertical, use a poor stance in the forty, etc. But they are just as athletic as others. Watson may fall in that category

I don't think Pats would have him on their board, he'll be way overdrafted. He's a project. He was terrible in his bowl game too. No value as I see it unless he's in the 5th round or so.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

2) Lane Johnson, in my honest opinion, should be in the top 20.. If he falls to the Pats, he's a no brainer selection. He can play both the Left and Right Tackle position.

Just wondering: is this under the assumption that Vollmer walks, or even if he stays?