The 2009 Colts and the 2009 Patriots

[fair catch fryar]

It's funny how a lot of people over look the fact that the Pats could've/ shoud've won at least 4 of their 6 losses had it not been for 4th quarter defensive meltdowns and bad play-calling from the offense. The defense definitely needs some upgrades at pass-rush, on field leadership, and of course resigning Wilfork, but the biggest difference between the 2009 Colts and Pats is at QB. I would still much rather have TB and think he'll come back better next year, but I have also gained much more respect for manning this year then I did before. He's making really good game time adjustments, doing more with less talent, and to be honest, eerily reminds me of pre 2007 Brady.

 

[chevss454]

they need to pay Leigh Bodden, and bring in Carlos Rogers from washington. that would give the pats two 6ft. corners. that can run. and i would feel a lot better with Darius Butler, at nickel over.

the pats need to bring in a top WR in FA Kevin Walter, Antonio Bryant, or Terrell Owens, none of them would brake the bank. but all of them would be a big up grade. for the pats.
I would add Malcolm Floyd to the WR list of "wants".


all the 30 something RB's need to go. they need to draft a big power runer

Morris has some value. Taylor too injury prone (nothing new for him). Dixon from Miss.St. was all-sec or Gerhart from Stanford are both power runners who may be available in the 2nd round.

pay mankins, and up grad the RG and C

Iupati from Idaho is a beast at RG but he is a 1st rnder; Tennant from BC is the top-rated C.

if the pats can do all that then they should be a top team again

WR's from FA. But what about passrushing? Do you go for ILB McClain by trading up or do you stand pat and use you #1 pick on a passrushing OLB such as Jerry Hughes (best passrusher) or Kindle or Graham?
This is going be an exciting offseason!

 

[bigfandan]

A big difference is defense... Colts D plays better as game goes on; it can dominate teams and shut teams down completely. Allowing the offense to catch up. Therefore the many manning comebacks this year.

The level they are playing D right now is light years ahead of Pats. Pats has not played near this level for years, IMHO.

Worth noting they are playing without Merlin Jackson, Bob Sanders, and Hayden, their 3 best CB/S. Their development of secondary and WR speaks about the great drafting and talent development by Polian and the coaching staff. Another area that Pats are lacking.

 

[dhamz]

The differences?

The Colts have better pass blocking, better QB play, much better secondary pass catchers to go with Wayne and Clark - guys who get open and catch it when it comes their way, and a defense that while not real good by any stretch plays its scheme pretty well, it doesn't have the enormous breakdowns in coverage the Pats D had at times resulting in big plays, and they do one thing very well - bring pressure off the edge.

 

[Horace's Ivories]

:ugh: Wow. Even for a homer, this is mind-boggling. Only on these boards would this sentence be formed and not laughed at.

You should really watch games and let your eyes do the comparison. Did we just not watch Manning shred the Ravens D apart, the same D that Brady mightily struggled against?

SMH.[/QUOTE

agreed - manning's release is amazing - he seems quicker on his reads - his accuracy overall is outstanding

 

[bigfandan]

Graham may be available late 1st or 2nd round and Pats should pick him up. Have seen Graham dominated his side with no help from a very weak defense. He could make us forget the losses of Vrable/A Thomas/Seymour.

WR's from FA. But what about passrushing? Do you go for ILB McClain by trading up or do you stand pat and use you #1 pick on a passrushing OLB such as Jerry Hughes (best passrusher) or Kindle or Graham?
This is going be an exciting offseason!

 

[JR4]

.....Plus their O-Line protects Manning much better than ours has protected Brady in a while.

I'll keep saying this over and over. PATs Oline is very good against
most teams but against tough defenses it has a big problem.
Reason why PATs Lost the Giants game.
Reason why PATs Lost the Ravens game.

PATs defense is adequate when the offense doesn't turn the ball over
and can stay on the field long enough to allow the D to rest.
Not saying the D can't improve but it wasn't the reason why PATs lost
against teams with very good Defense.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

:ugh: Wow. Even for a homer, this is mind-boggling. Only on these boards would this sentence be formed and not laughed at.

You should really watch games and let your eyes do the comparison. Did we just not watch Manning shred the Ravens D apart, the same D that Brady mightily struggled against?

SMH.

Quick, name Manning's top blocking TE and his top 4 WR's...

Here's a clue, he doesn't need one and he didn't have that many. Manning had the luxury of getting quick release and he still got sacked twice and if not for repeated, costly Baltimore miscues he might have found himself on the short end of the stick.

So lets review, Manning had twice as many legit receivers including a top pass catching TE and just about every bounce of the ball went his way, and he won. Earlier in the season we beat Baltimore and should have beat Indy after dominating them for three quarters. This past week with our Pro Bowl slot receiver on IR and his QB conversion project backup as his top target along side a fading decoy and two career ST'ers and a D that couldn't stop the run out of the gate, we lost.

PS I don't think 20 points and 233 passing yards constitutes shredding...The Ravens self destructed on both sides of the ball with 4 turnovers and a couple of costly penalties. Still all the Colts could muster in the second half was 3 points. When Brady performs like that this season, we lose because our defense was incapable of defending a lead in the second half of games.

Brady is still the better playoff QB over the course of their careers by a wide margin. Last night Manning ascended to .500 playoff status.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I agree we need a playmaker on defense. I don't think the Colts have that much of a better defense, just alot more clutch than the one we have. Even though they shutdown Baltimore, they could come back next week and give up 30+, that's pretty much every defense in the NFL. Baltimore has historically been a good matchup for the Indy defense, even in 2006 when their run defense was swiss cheese.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The differences?

The Colts have better pass blocking, better QB play, much better secondary pass catchers to go with Wayne and Clark - guys who get open and catch it when it comes their way, and a defense that while not real good by any stretch plays its scheme pretty well, it doesn't have the enormous breakdowns in coverage the Pats D had at times resulting in big plays, and they do one thing very well - bring pressure off the edge.

Two of your first three deficiencies tremendously impact the other. If all things were equal it would be different. But Brady has shown in the past that with just a competent surrounding cast that executes efficiently (i.e does it's job) he's played better.

Manning wasn't at his best last night, he seldom is in the post season, but it was good enough because the Ravens imploded. Four turnovers, two costly penalties, every freakin' bounce went the Colts way. Not to mention they did at least stop the run, dead. 275 total yards of offense allowed, 42 on the ground. HUGE difference given Flacco really regressed as this season unfolded and his options are pretty limited even on his best days. Neither defense is disciplined. There's is more talented and more experienced. They make foolish mistakes like penalties. We make careless mistakes like blown assignments and repeatedly poor or missed tackles.

The Colt's defense on the other hand has benefitted from years of horrifyingly bad experience that led Dungy and Polian to focus since 2006 on building a unit that believes it's performance matters to the point of being vital because Manning can't do it alone, either.

The schemes haven't changed, what sadly has is the focus. We strove to become more like them as they strove to become more like us. Bill overcompensated for the Polian rule.

 

[Rob0729]

The difference in my mind other than the strong pass rush by the Colts is that the Colts make the plays they need to and the Pats didn't. The Colts have had a lot of the bounces go their way this year too which helps. The Pats gave up too many games they should have won because they fell apart in the fourth and the Colts won games they should have lost by stepping up in the fourth quarter. That is by far the biggest difference.

 

[SanAngeloState]

I've read through this thread and haven't seen this addressed...

The colts defense is obviously very different than ours. But it is painful to think they have taken small, late round guys and made a good defense out of it, whereas we've taken highly drafted players and somehow can't defend the ravens as well as they could.

The first play of the game they went by our 1st rond dt wilfork, 1st round droy lb Mayo and 1st round safety Meriweather. I do realize the Colts have Freeney and Mathis, not sure how highly drafted Mathis was.

Anyway, maybe we need a different scheme that optimizes our players. Maybe the 2 gap is not good anymore as well as being difficult to find players for.

 

[dhamz]

Two of your first three deficiencies tremendously impact the other. If all things were equal it would be different. But Brady has shown in the past that with just a competent surrounding cast that executes efficiently (i.e does it's job) he's played better.

Don't disagree over the impact of thier pass protection, who I would want over the course of their careers, who I'd rather have all things being equal, or who I want at QB next year.

The topic was 2009 and what was the difference between the 2 teams. I think there is no question who played better QB this year. Manning was more clutch and made better decisions this year - things that Brady is much better with over the course of his career. There are obviously a lot of factors that factor in to the performance of each and that Manning was healthy all year and Brady wasn't anywhere close was clearly a huge part of that.

 

[condon84]

Quick, name Manning's top blocking TE and his top 4 WR's...

Here's a clue, he doesn't need one and he didn't have that many. Manning had the luxury of getting quick release and he still got sacked twice and if not for repeated, costly Baltimore miscues he might have found himself on the short end of the stick.

So lets review, Manning had twice as many legit receivers including a top pass catching TE and just about every bounce of the ball went his way, and he won. Earlier in the season we beat Baltimore and should have beat Indy after dominating them for three quarters. This past week with our Pro Bowl slot receiver on IR and his QB conversion project backup as his top target along side a fading decoy and two career ST'ers and a D that couldn't stop the run out of the gate, we lost.

PS I don't think 20 points and 233 passing yards constitutes shredding...The Ravens self destructed on both sides of the ball with 4 turnovers and a couple of costly penalties. Still all the Colts could muster in the second half was 3 points. When Brady performs like that this season, we lose because our defense was incapable of defending a lead in the second half of games.

Brady is still the better playoff QB over the course of their careers by a wide margin. Last night Manning ascended to .500 playoff status.

Quick, what comment did I reply to?

The guy you're defending said Brady > Manning in 2009. If you feel the same way, then I question your ability to objectively compare Manning versus Brady.

 

[b72s]

Colts O Line much better see them pick up Ravens blitz.

Colts D is 4-3 more pash rush and overall front 7 better than ours.

Usually takes one year for QB too rebound from Knee Same with Peyton a few years agom

 

[ATippett56]

Let's see who would you rather have .........

Collie and Garcon or Aiken and Stanback. It's completely unacceptable the New England Patriots are left with trash at the fourth and fifth wide receiver positions.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

I've read through this thread and haven't seen this addressed...

The colts defense is obviously very different than ours. But it is painful to think they have taken small, late round guys and made a good defense out of it, whereas we've taken highly drafted players and somehow can't defend the ravens as well as they could.

The first play of the game they went by our 1st rond dt wilfork, 1st round droy lb Mayo and 1st round safety Meriweather. I do realize the Colts have Freeney and Mathis, not sure how highly drafted Mathis was.

Anyway, maybe we need a different scheme that optimizes our players. Maybe the 2 gap is not good anymore as well as being difficult to find players for.

Robert Mathis - 5th Round Pick

 

[PATSNUTme]

Without Manning the Colts are an 8-8 team at best. That is what my eyes tell me when I watch them.

 

[State]

I'm with you. I don't depend on anyone not drafted in the first round to contribute in their rookie year (except an OL or STer).

I'm with except for RBs. We could get a player in the second or third round as a RB. Heck, after seeing Reggie Bush, I wouldn't put it past us to go for CJ Spiller if he is available, which I doubt.

Many of us are disappointed with Maroney. He shows flashes but he continually reverts to dancing and not being decisive enough. We need a running attack like we had going at the end of the last season with Brady out. Then we had something going.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Garcon and Collie together are better than Aiken and Edelman.

Head and shoulders better. This is one of the reason I want Jordan Shipley, I swear that this guy will equal Collies production if not surpass it. He also returns punts. I wouldnt at all be upset if we used our last 2nd round pick on him but I want the first two to be used on defensive play makers. Give McClain, and a pass rusher and I will be extremely happy with this draft. We are still going to need another widereceiver and a guard through free agency.