Thank you Bill

[FCB02062]

Great breakdown of the current (and past) state of the Pats by Hurley:

The anatomy of how the Patriots got here

How did the Patriots get to the bottom of the NFL? It took several years and countless decisions. Let's explore.

www.cbsnews.com

The "I want to coach guys I like" quote is eye-opening.

Hurley isn't pulling any punches and he calls out Bills moronic decisions. If one didn't know better one would think that Bill has been mailing it in for awhile, sacrificing good players for "guys he likes." After reading that article it is crystal clear that Belichick needs to be shown the door. The 2023 New England Patriots are the 1995 Cleveland Browns (likely worse) without the 3-1 start.

 

[FCB02062]

Bills still a great coach. Problem is he is a bottom GM

Great coaches DON'T punt from the opponents 40, down 24-0 midway through the 3d quarter on 4th and 3? Sounds like a coach who quit on his team, not a great coach.

 

[sb1]

Bills still a great coach. Problem is he is a bottom GM

Is he though? I'm not so sure now.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Is he though? I'm not so sure now.

I think if Bill could adjust to the modern nfl he could still be successful but for some reason he seems stuck in his ways

 

[archstanton543]

I think if Bill could adjust to the modern nfl he could still be successful but for some reason he seems stuck in his ways

Some reason is that he's 71 going on 72. Another is too much job security.

 

[Ring 6]

What’s your opinion on Belichick and this team right now? Let’s forget his track record and the dynasty for the moment. I’m curious to your opinion on the state of this team right now. Do you think we are good right now?

If you want an opinion on belichick you can’t forget his track record.
The team has taken a big step back in the rebuild process. Belichicks track record indicates now more than ever is the reason you need to keep the best ever.
“I don’t like the results, fire everyone” is an emotional response.
Has anyone ever done a quicker rebuild from the team belichick took over in 2000 (called the farthest team from a SB by pro football weekly) to winning a sb the next year and 3 in 4?
Why, if you consider things as bad now as they were then, would you remove the guy who has proven he can do it. And sustaining it for 20 years didn’t happen by accident or luck.

 

[archstanton543]

Why, if you consider things as bad now as they were then, would you remove the guy who has proven he can do it. And sustaining it for 20 years didn’t happen by accident or luck.

He did that 23 years ago. The game has changed (the game is built around fast QB's and WR's. The days of ground and pound are over.) He doesn’t have Brady to cover up his bad decision making on offense. He hasn't proved anything in the post-Brady era. There's not one player on offense you can build around. He's letting rare homegrown talent walk. He's hiring his buddies and players he likes personally rather than ones that can help the team win.

 

[Guts]

If you want an opinion on belichick you can’t forget his track record.
The team has taken a big step back in the rebuild process. Belichicks track record indicates now more than ever is the reason you need to keep the best ever.
“I don’t like the results, fire everyone” is an emotional response.
Has anyone ever done a quicker rebuild from the team belichick took over in 2000 (called the farthest team from a SB by pro football weekly) to winning a sb the next year and 3 in 4?
Why, if you consider things as bad now as they were then, would you remove the guy who has proven he can do it. And sustaining it for 20 years didn’t happen by accident or luck.

Look I get your stance truly I do, but back then it was more defensive oriented league and to BBs credit he kept Brady long enough for him to emerge and become the starter.
There's no Brady this time around not even "game manager" level Brady. Pure trash at QB and it's a QB/Skill position driven league now more than back then.

 

[Ring 6]

He did that 23 years ago. The game has changed (the game is built around fast QB's and WR's. The days of ground and pound are over.) He doesn’t have Brady to cover up his bad decision making on offense. He hasn't proved anything in the post-Brady era. There's not one player on offense you can build around. He's letting rare homegrown talent walk. He's hiring his buddies and players he likes personally rather than ones that can help the team

The game hasn’t changed. The Patriots were never ground and pound.
The rebuild is what it is. It was literally a start from scratch in 2020. Every team ever has had firm periods.
Who is “rare homegrown talent” that he let walk?
Every coach ever hires coaches they are familiar with and your comment about players he likes is just dumb.

 

[Ring 6]

Look I get your stance truly I do, but back then it was more defensive oriented league and to BBs credit he kept Brady long enough for him to emerge and become the starter.
There's no Brady this time around not even "game manager" level Brady. Pure trash at QB and it's a QB/Skill position driven league now more than back then.

If there is “pure trash” at qb why would firing the coach be the answer?

 

[archstanton543]

The game hasn’t changed. The Patriots were never ground and pound.
The rebuild is what it is. It was literally a start from scratch in 2020. Every team ever has had firm periods.
Who is “rare homegrown talent” that he let walk?
Every coach ever hires coaches they are familiar with and your comment about players he likes is just dumb.

He let Meyers go for noting. Thuney was homegrown talent as well.

 

[Toofy]

He let Meyers go for noting. Thuney was homegrown talent as well.

And the fact that we have not developed anyone noteworthy in last 5 years is telling on Billa as a GM and coach . Thuney and Chandler Jones come to mind . Trey flowers and JC Jackson were Busts outside the pats .


I think we all can agree that Brady, scar, Ernie and Josh contributed to 50% or more of bills success. Without them bill is mortal again .

The rebuild for Bengals happened in 2 years after they drafted burrow.

Vrabel is more successful than bill with tannehill than bill is without Brady. Bill without Brady from a records standpoint is equal to Marvin Lewis .

I am not saying bill was not instrumental in our 6 rings. He was and we can be thankful to him for it. But we can't be wallowing in ineptitude due to bills decision.

The 6 ring goodwill is over. Keeping bill would make the rebuild stretch to another 5 years. Just start new, rinse and repeat and see if we can get something going.

First thing get your drafting and offense back in order. And for that bill needs to leave .

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

If you want an opinion on belichick you can’t forget his track record.
The team has taken a big step back in the rebuild process. Belichicks track record indicates now more than ever is the reason you need to keep the best ever.
“I don’t like the results, fire everyone” is an emotional response.
Has anyone ever done a quicker rebuild from the team belichick took over in 2000 (called the farthest team from a SB by pro football weekly) to winning a sb the next year and 3 in 4?
Why, if you consider things as bad now as they were then, would you remove the guy who has proven he can do it. And sustaining it for 20 years didn’t happen by accident or luck.

If we keep Belichick, then something else has to change. We don’t need to fire everybody but something has to change. This way isn’t working right now. Get rid of Mac and bring in a veteran QB. We cannot go into 2024 with Belichick and Mac as a pair because we aren’t winning much of anything with these two combined. I personally would get rid of Bill because I think his culture is dead, but if we want to believe it isn’t then Mac has to go.

 

[1960Pats]

Let's also not forget the Stephen Jackson game in Miami and taking the wind in OT vs the NYJ, both head scratching decisions with the #1 seed on the line. 2015 was probably when I started questioning Bill the Coach's decision-making. Win either of those games and you play the AFC Championship at home instead of in Denver (a game the Patriots lost by 2). Completely non-sensical decisions from Bill the Coach. Against Miami, the Patriots ran 29 offensive plays and ran the ball 22 times in the first half and trailed 10-3 to a Miami club that would finish 6-10. They sucked running the ball in 2015. I remember blowing a gasket about that game on this forum. The Bill bobos said they had to get Stephen Jackson established and get the running game going. OK, so you basically throw the ****ing Miami game to get him "going"?
Against Denver the Pats backs ran 14 times for 31 yards....so what was the point of the Miami game again? And don't get me started on the Jets game when the moron "took the wind" and Ryan Fitzpatrick shoved it down his throat against Bill the Coach's grossly overrated defense to the tune of 3-3-78 and a TD. There are a myriad of head scratchers in Bills career as HC of the NEP....we've only listed a few.
Bill the Coach got pantsed by Todd Bowles and Dan Campbell in consecutive weeks.

And Bill's not like a fine wine that gets better with age, as we're now seeing firsthand.

 

[1960Pats]

Yep, all by himself. The coaches and other players had nothing to do with it, just Brady. You know who the first person to call you a ****ing moron would be if they saw your post? Tom Brady.

Nobody said that the other players and coaches had nothing to do with the Pats success. But when you look at Bill's 5-13 record before Brady took over and his below .500 record since, with no playoff success and 3 out of 4 losing seasons using the same players, it's pretty obvious that Bill was less of a factor than you want to believe. In fact, it's entirely possible when you look at the results that Bill the GM screwed Bill the HC much more than he helped him.

Bill himself has said it hundreds of times, it's a player's game. Unfortunately, Bill seems to be using a different standard when judging the players and it's clearly not working. And his penchant for dumping our best players lately hasn't helped one bit.

It's past time to let Bill go. Better too early than too late would be great but it's already too late. His damage has been done.

 

[Ring 6]

He let Meyers go for noting. Thuney was homegrown talent as well.

Meyers was a “rare talent”?
Thuney got ridiculous money. You want to fire the GOAT for not overpaying for a LG? Wow

 

[1960Pats]

He did that 23 years ago. The game has changed (the game is built around fast QB's and WR's. The days of ground and pound are over.) He doesn’t have Brady to cover up his bad decision making on offense. He hasn't proved anything in the post-Brady era. There's not one player on offense you can build around. He's letting rare homegrown talent walk. He's hiring his buddies and players he likes personally rather than ones that can help the team win.

Why isn't that obvious to every Pats fan? I don't get that. It's almost like he's been sabotaging the team to make some kind of point. Look at all the players he dumped just in the last 5 years. There was some serious talent here that he chased away.

When I saw the things that Patricia said to players on the Lions about ending their careers it made me wonder if Bill has that same mentality. Bill and Patricia seem to be on the same page when dealing with players.

 

[Ring 6]

If we keep Belichick, then something else has to change. We don’t need to fire everybody but something has to change. This way isn’t working right now. Get rid of Mac and bring in a veteran QB. We cannot go into 2024 with Belichick and Mac as a pair because we aren’t winning much of anything with these two combined. I personally would get rid of Bill because I think his culture is dead, but if we want to believe it isn’t then Mac has to go.

It’s funny to me how fans who choose to follow the team of their own accord, can’t wait to diminish the success, and feel the need to punish someone for the sin of not staying on top more than 20 years.

Of course changes need to be made. They have been since the all-in bubble burst in 2019. If you want to give examples of top trans who came back to earth and then we’re back in top again after turning over almost the entire roster, go ahead, I’m open to consider it, but I don’t see any. Look at how many players are left from 2018 or 2019. They basically had to build a team from scratch. When has that been done successfully?

I understand no one likes losing but down years are inevitable and the timeline shows how difficult getting from 2020 to today successfully really would be. It’s still a work in progress and I guarantee you it’s a lot closer than it looked the last 2 weeks. But Jones either needs to be coached up or coached out. He is the biggest problem right now. By far.

 

[Ring 6]

Why isn't that obvious to every Pats fan? I don't get that. It's almost like he's been sabotaging the team to make some kind of point. Look at all the players he dumped just in the last 5 years. There was some serious talent here that he chased away.

When I saw the things that Patricia said to players on the Lions about ending their careers it made me wonder if Bill has that same mentality. Bill and Patricia seem to be on the same page when dealing with players.

What serious talent was chased away?

 

[1960Pats]

Meyers was a “rare talent”?
Thuney got ridiculous money. You want to fire the GOAT for not overpaying for a LG? Wow

It's incredible watching you twist yourself into a pretzel trying to defend the indefensible.
Myers was rare in that he cost a fraction of what Bill gave to other, less effective WR's. Basically, he was a steal.
Thuney got enough from KC for him to leave and win a SB ring his first season there.
And don't forget Gronk and Brady, two GOAT players that Bill still hasn't come close to replacing in 4 years, in spite of numerous wasted draft picks and FA signings.
The Pats will probably be paying for Bill's mistakes for years to come.