Talking TEs - 2014 Draft

[ctpatsfan77]

So after last night are some of the TE proponents swayed to the DL side as #1 priority? I want a pass rush more than ever.

Not this one.

 

[manxman2601]

I've been on the Logan Thomas conversion train for a while. If you can get him in the middle rounds I'd do it quickly.

So after last night are some of the TE proponents swayed to the DL side as #1 priority? I want a pass rush more than ever.

No because TE is still our biggest need by far. People are forgetting how good our defense was before the injuries.

 

[everlong]

No because TE is still our biggest need by far. People are forgetting how good our defense was before the injuries.

Was it? Or was it because we played Buffalo, NYJ, Tampa, Atlanta down Roddy White and Stephen Jackson and the Bungels in bad weather? I think the injuries made a difference but I still don't think the defense was at the level of SF or SEA. If Gronk and Amendola (LOL) were healthy the offense might have been much better. I don't think you can count on either of them being healthy but likely Wilfork and Kelly are gone or not the same players. Getting Mayo back will be a boost. I still want more firepower.

 

[Snake Eyes]

No because TE is still our biggest need by far. People are forgetting how good our defense was before the injuries.

Are we not going to have injuries next year? It's evident that we have no ability to withstand those injuries, we more stud horses.

 

[mayoclinic]

No because TE is still our biggest need by far. People are forgetting how good our defense was before the injuries.

Are we not going to have injuries next year? It's evident that we have no ability to withstand those injuries, we more stud horses.

We allowed 21, 10, 3 and 23 points against teams that ended up averaging 21.2 (Buffalo), 18.1 (NY Jets), 18 (Tampa Bay) and 22.1 (Atlanta) PPG. Two of those teams started rookies in their first or second start. After that, injuries started to kick in.

I think that our defense played well those first 4 games. But there is enormous room for improvement, and a critical need for depth.

Again, I'm not comparing the need at defense with that at TE, just discussing the need on defense.

 

[manxman2601]

Was it? Or was it because we played Buffalo, NYJ, Tampa, Atlanta down Roddy White and Stephen Jackson and the Bungels in bad weather? I think the injuries made a difference but I still don't think the defense was at the level of SF or SEA. If Gronk and Amendola (LOL) were healthy the offense might have been much better. I don't think you can count on either of them being healthy but likely Wilfork and Kelly are gone or not the same players. Getting Mayo back will be a boost. I still want more firepower.

I'm not going to argue defense v offense the night after one of the best defensive performances in SB history as though that gives us a reasonable explanation of where we can be, something which is wholly unrealistic.

And yes, it was. Talib shut down some of the biggest receiving forces in the NFL in that stretch of games. The reason we didn't win those games by a bigger margin was because there was a certain rather large receiving threat missing. I speak of course of our TE

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Are we not going to have injuries next year? It's evident that we have no ability to withstand those injuries, we more stud horses.

What are the odds of losing all 3 Pro Bowlers in the middle of the defense in the first six weeks of the season again?

 

[Snake Eyes]

What are the odds of losing all 3 Pro Bowlers in the middle of the defense in the first six weeks of the season again?

Probably not great but I don’t think that takes away from idea that there are bigger priorities than TE, the lines IMO. We’ll have Gronk back, and even if he’s not at 100% he’ll still provide production. If Denver releases Tamme we can probably sign him for modest money, there’s also Graham (Texans) and Brandon Pettigrew (Lions).

It’s all about the opportunity cost, I’d rather get a few adequate bodies in free agency and use those early draft picks to build a foundation for the next few years with other positions.

 

[manxman2601]

Probably not great but I don’t think that takes away from idea that there are bigger priorities than TE, the lines IMO. We’ll have Gronk back, and even if he’s not at 100% he’ll still provide production. If Denver releases Tamme we can probably sign him for modest money, there’s also Graham (Texans) and Brandon Pettigrew (Lions).

It’s all about the opportunity cost, I’d rather get a few adequate bodies in free agency and use those early draft picks to build a foundation for the next few years with other positions.

We should sign adequate bodies like Schiancoe, Fells, Ballard, Hooman and mulligan. Oh wait...

Tom Brady needs more than adequacy as last season demonstrated.

 

[Snake Eyes]

We should sign adequate bodies like Schiancoe, Fells, Ballard, Hooman and mulligan. Oh wait...

Tom Brady needs more than adequacy as last season demonstrated.

He needs a clean pocket even more, our TEs weren't the reason Denver beat us. The interior O-line has been the Achilles heel of the offense for years, I think that’ll give us MUCH more bang for the buck than a TE.

Protect Brady and hurt the opposing QB.

 

[manxman2601]

He needs a clean pocket even more, our TEs weren't the reason Denver beat us. The interior O-line has been the Achilles heel of the offense for years, I think that’ll give us MUCH more bang for the buck than a TE.

Protect Brady and hurt the opposing QB.

That's why we have seven picks in the draft. Rarely do interior linemen get taken in the first round. And if you look at my ideal roster on the main page, I have us drafting Ebron and ASJ and signing Alex Mack. Getting a quality TE does not have to be inconsistent with improving the rest of the team.

FWIW, I suggested the following changes to the starting team

1. Trade up for Ebron if possible (giving up no more than a 3rd)
2. If not possible, draft ASJ.
3. Draft Marcus Smith in the second for added speed, coverage ability at LB and pass rush.
4. If we get a high second for Mallett draft Aaron Donald for interior pressure.
5. Sign Alex Mack
6. Draft Antone Exum who could challenge Dennard and move Dennard inside to nickel or could slot in at safety or be an effective backup for Talib.


I did say that this is an ideal but if all this was to come to pass then I think it satisfies the myriad needs of this team without resorting to making do at any position. The only added need I see is a 4-3 DE that could be filled by Aaron Lynch perhaps or by finding a decent vet FA.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm not going to argue defense v offense the night after one of the best defensive performances in SB history as though that gives us a reasonable explanation of where we can be, something which is wholly unrealistic.

And yes, it was. Talib shut down some of the biggest receiving forces in the NFL in that stretch of games. The reason we didn't win those games by a bigger margin was because there was a certain rather large receiving threat missing. I speak of course of our TE

Sorry, Manx, but DT/NT is the biggest need, bar none. This is followed by a CB, OC, and DE. TE is 5th on the list.

Without a defense, the Pats don't go anywhere.

There are enough weapons on offense that the Pats will be able to put points up even without Gronkowski. Both Dobson and Thompkins are ahead of where Branch/Givens were after their rookie years. Amendola has the chance to be the new David Patten and Edelman the new Troy Brown.

Add in Gronk and whomever else and this team is still lightyears better than the 2003/2004 teams offenses.

 

[manxman2601]

Sorry, Manx, but DT/NT is the biggest need, bar none. This is followed by a CB, OC, and DE. TE is 5th on the list.

Without a defense, the Pats don't go anywhere.

There are enough weapons on offense that the Pats will be able to put points up even without Gronkowski. Both Dobson and Thompkins are ahead of where Branch/Givens were after their rookie years. Amendola has the chance to be the new David Patten and Edelman the new Troy Brown.

Add in Gronk and whomever else and this team is still lightyears better than the 2003/2004 teams offenses.

I'm going to be very pedantic here and point out that defenses don't get you anywhere, offenses do. That's not meant to be churlish, just a pointing out that the driving force behind this team is the offense.

More seriously, I disagree. I like Kelly and Armstead's potential and I like Siliga and Chris Jones as backups. That leaves us with one spot, maybe for a run stopper but you can pick those up in the mid-rounds. OC's too are mid round players usually and if we re-sign Talib, I think you have to concede that CB is not a first round need.

The problem with reducing TE to the 5th need is that you are potentially reducing us to Hooman, Mulligan and a poorly graded rookie considering Gronk's recent difficulties in getting through a season in one piece. I'm sorry but I just don't see that as desirable at all.

There are certainly DL players I like and that I'd consider taking high but The Shiancoe/Fells approach to filling the TE position is a dangerous one in my opinion. There is one caveat to that for which we just don't know the answer and that is about the scheme McDaniels intends to run. If it's one that doesn't feature TEs as receivers then I'd agree with you. But we don't know and therefore can't really operate on that basis.

 

[ashley]

I think the tight end position is a top 3 need for our team right now. However, I would lean toward drafting a tight end in the 3rd or 4th round. If we can land Sefarian -Jenkins in the 3rd round or Niklas or Fiedorwicz in the 4th round after taking an athletic defensive lineman and a big strong hitting safety in the first two rounds, I think that would be ideal.

 

[mayoclinic]

I think the tight end position is a top 3 need for our team right now. However, I would lean toward drafting a tight end in the 3rd or 4th round. If we can land Sefarian -Jenkins in the 3rd round or Niklas or Fiedorwicz in the 4th round after taking an athletic defensive lineman and a big strong hitting safety in the first two rounds, I think that would be ideal.

I think our top 5 needs right now are DT, DE, OG/C, S and TE, in no particular order. And that's assuming that Talib is re-signed. I would probably take the BPA among any of these 5 needs.

 

[ashley]

I think our top 5 needs right now are DT, DE, OG/C, S and TE, in no particular order. And that's assuming that Talib is re-signed. I would probably take the BPA among any of these 5 needs.

I agree with your positions of need. It's going to get very interesting if at 29 we come to pick and if Swanson, Pryor(crossing fingers), Ford, Ealy(wishful thinking), Donald, Hageman and Amaro are still available. It's such a deep draft that usually I don't like trading back but in this instance it might be worth it.

Oh, if that scenario ever happens I'm going Ealy and then Pryor. I know people will think I'm crazy for passing up Amaro but I want a bad defense!!!!

 

[ashley]

Bad defense meaning tough and good. lol

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I think the tight end position is a top 3 need for our team right now. However, I would lean toward drafting a tight end in the 3rd or 4th round. If we can land Sefarian -Jenkins in the 3rd round or Niklas or Fiedorwicz in the 4th round after taking an athletic defensive lineman and a big strong hitting safety in the first two rounds, I think that would be ideal.

Welcome to the Board Ashley!

It's good to have more gals around our nerdy Pats-centric walls, especially those that like to step right in and talk draft. Good to have you!

I'm also in agreement about tight end, there is a lot of depth at the position and I'm in favor of grabbing one of those in the middle rounds. Arthur Lynch is a guy I'd add to the list, I'm a big fan of his. Now if Eric Ebron slipped...that may get me to change my tune, but I doubt he will.

As much as Hooman has been serviceable, I wouldn't even be opposed to doubling up, grabbing another in the 7th---maybe Lyerla if his (mental) health checks out?

 

[ashley]

Welcome to the Board Ashley!

It's good to have more gals around our nerdy Pats-centric walls, especially those that like to step right in and talk draft. Good to have you!

I'm also in agreement about tight end, there is a lot of depth at the position and I'm in favor of grabbing one of those in the middle rounds. Arthur Lynch is a guy I'd add to the list, I'm a big fan of his. Now if Eric Ebron slipped...that may get me to change my tune, but I doubt he will.

As much as Hooman has been serviceable, I wouldn't even be opposed to doubling up, grabbing another in the 7th---maybe Lyerla if his (mental) health checks out?

Thank you so much. I've always been kind of a tomb boy, so I love talking football!!!!

 

[mayoclinic]

I agree with your positions of need. It's going to get very interesting if at 29 we come to pick and if Swanson, Pryor(crossing fingers), Ford, Ealy(wishful thinking), Donald, Hageman and Amaro are still available. It's such a deep draft that usually I don't like trading back but in this instance it might be worth it.

Oh, if that scenario ever happens I'm going Ealy and then Pryor. I know people will think I'm crazy for passing up Amaro but I want a bad defense!!!!

I don't think that Swanson is remotely worth a 1st round pick (probably not a 2nd, either). I personally don't rate Amaro as a 1st round talent, though I'm in the minority. Ford is too much of a one-trick pony for me; I wouldn't take him in the 1st.

Hageman, Pryor and Ealy would be a difficult dilemma. I'd personally take all 3 over Donald, but the odds of all 3 being on the board at 29 is essentially 0. We'll be very lucky if any of those 4 guys is on the board at 29.