Talking TEs - 2014 Draft

[mayoclinic]

Thank you BF...mgteich and mayoclinic do you all see the downward spiral of Pettigrew? If they do what you guys are suggesting if I was Brady I would asked to be Released. Pettigrew over a up and coming Edelman.

Yes, you're obviously correct. We need to overpay for 2 (mostly) slot receivers so that we can clog the middle of the field, have no red zone capability; then Brady can force the ball to them on 40% of his pass attempts (including overthrowing them when they actually do go deep, as they have a limited catch radius), making the offense extremely predictable.

I've stated my view in #38 above. We clearly disagree. It happens. Leave it at that.

 

[VJCPatriot]

The problem drafting WRs is that they take an average of 3 years to develop before they blossom/reach their prime. We already took our shot with the Dobson/Boyce/Thompkins group.

If we draft another young wideout, I just feel the chances of immediate impact are very low.

I think TE has a better shot to show in our offense sooner as long as he has the skills talent, and we should look at a move/pass catching TE.

Unfortunately we did not draft TE last year, and I'm kind of shocked that we didn't. AH/Gronk weren't exactly the healthiest guys even if we couldn't predict the murders/plus season ending injury.

Here's a look at some Tight Ends prospects.
Top 5 2014 NFL Draft prospects by position: Tight ends - NFL.com

Ebron is likely long gone by the time we pick, so that's a pipe dream although if he is around, I wouldn't be surprised if BB pulled the trigger.

One guy that jumps out at me is Niklas from Notre Dame at 6'7 270. Outstanding size. But does he have the athleticism to separate/create space at the NFL level and/or win jump balls if he can't quite separate?

Niklas is reportedly an excellent blocker but seems to have some inconsistency when catching which may be a problem with contested catches. A guy to look out for.

And how about Austin Sefarian-Jenkins? He reportedly has elite athleticism, but can he put it all together at the NFL level?

This guy apparently believes that ASJ is the #1 TE prospect in the draft. DUI is a flag though. Buy or sell?

Finally it's easy to look at the top prospects but are there any dark horses that the Pats could look at? Could they steal another gem in the round 4-7 range? The Pats got AH in the 4th and Dennard in the 7th. The Cleveland Browns landed Jordan Cameron with pick #102 (4th round).

What Dark Horse could be out there ripe for the plucking?
How about Hoosier TE Ted Bolser --
2014 NFL Draft: Projected Late-Rounders Who Will Be Studs at the Next Level | Bleacher Report
Ted Bolser: Best NFL Draft Prospect For Indiana This Fall

He doesn't run a blazing 40, but perhaps he can be an unexpected late round contributor and he has solid size for the position.

 

[BelichickFan]

Yes, you're obviously correct. We need to overpay for 2 (mostly) slot receivers so that we can clog the middle of the field, have no red zone capability; then Brady can force the ball to them on 40% of his pass attempts (including overthrowing them when they actually do go deep, as they have a limited catch radius), making the offense extremely predictable.

The problem is Amendola is the one with the guaranteed money but Edelman is the one Brady trusts. After what we went through this past season I'm not willing to let the one guy (other than the oft injured Gronk) who Brady trusts walk. It's not optimal, as you outlined, but it is what it is and that is a mess. I'd prefer to have too much money in slot WR for one year (2014 could be a last chance for DA based on his contract) than to get to opening day and Brady have no-one to throw to. Although I like Dobson and am intrigued by Boyce.

As for TE it depends on the plan for the offence. O'Brien was more TE centric, if he were still here I'd want a Gronk backup and another starter quality. McDaniels is a little more WR centric so one TE might do, one who can legitimately backup Gronk (a solid receiving threat) and also play with him (a good blocker) in power formations. Obviously he wouldn't be as athletic as Gronk but a Niklas, ASJ or Federowitcz (sp ?) could work, basically a poor man's Gronk but a rich man's Mulligan.

 

[VJCPatriot]

The problem is Amendola is the one with the guaranteed money but Edelman is the one Brady trusts. After what we went through this past season I'm not willing to let the one guy (other than the oft injured Gronk) who Brady trusts walk. It's not optimal, as you outlined, but it is what it is and that is a mess. I'd prefer to have too much money in slot WR for one year (2014 could be a last chance for DA based on his contract) than to get to opening day and Brady have no-one to throw to. Although I like Dobson and am intrigued by Boyce.

I agree. Obviously Edelman is very important to our offense. He was our best receiver last season hands down and imo he replaces Welker. Amendola, I'm not even sure what he brings yet because of all the injuries. But I'd rather hold onto Edelman precisely because we can't count on DA for a full season of play.

As for TE it depends on the plan for the offence. O'Brien was more TE centric, if he were still here I'd want a Gronk backup and another starter quality. McDaniels is a little more WR centric so one TE might do, one who can legitimately backup Gronk (a solid receiving threat) and also play with him (a good blocker) in power formations. Obviously he wouldn't be as athletic as Gronk but a Niklas, ASJ or Federowitcz (sp ?) could work, basically a poor man's Gronk but a rich man's Mulligan.

Yup, we can't expect to get the next Gronk with the picks that we have. But Gronk light or a Jordan Cameron light? That would be nice if we could find one. The only thing I worry about is that the TE might not make an impact soon enough. We need someone who can come along and contribute by at least the end of the season much like Jamie Collins did.

Consider that even a very good TE like Jordan Cameron didn't emerge until his 3rd year.
Cleveland Browns: Jordan Cameron

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The problem drafting WRs is that they take an average of 3 years to develop before they blossom/reach their prime. We already took our shot with the Dobson/Boyce/Thompkins group.

If we draft another young wideout, I just feel the chances of immediate impact are very low.

I think TE has a better shot to show in our offense sooner as long as he has the skills talent, and we should look at a move/pass catching TE.

Unfortunately we did not draft TE last year, and I'm kind of shocked that we didn't. AH/Gronk weren't exactly the healthiest guys even if we couldn't predict the murders/plus season ending injury.

Here's a look at some Tight Ends prospects.
Top 5 2014 NFL Draft prospects by position: Tight ends - NFL.com

Ebron is likely long gone by the time we pick, so that's a pipe dream although if he is around, I wouldn't be surprised if BB pulled the trigger.

One guy that jumps out at me is Niklas from Notre Dame at 6'7 270. Outstanding size. But does he have the athleticism to separate/create space at the NFL level and/or win jump balls if he can't quite separate?

Niklas is reportedly an excellent blocker but seems to have some inconsistency when catching which may be a problem with contested catches. A guy to look out for.

And how about Austin Sefarian-Jenkins? He reportedly has elite athleticism, but can he put it all together at the NFL level?

This guy apparently believes that ASJ is the #1 TE prospect in the draft. DUI is a flag though. Buy or sell?

Finally it's easy to look at the top prospects but are there any dark horses that the Pats could look at? Could they steal another gem in the round 4-7 range? The Pats got AH in the 4th and Dennard in the 7th. The Cleveland Browns landed Jordan Cameron with pick #102 (4th round).

What Dark Horse could be out there ripe for the plucking?
How about Hoosier TE Ted Bolser --
2014 NFL Draft: Projected Late-Rounders Who Will Be Studs at the Next Level | Bleacher Report
Ted Bolser: Best NFL Draft Prospect For Indiana This Fall

He doesn't run a blazing 40, but perhaps he can be an unexpected late round contributor and he has solid size for the position.

Excellent summary.

One point to discuss. I think BB put us in a hole last year due to the lack of total draft picks we had to work with at the beginning of the draft. In many regards while we eventually wound up with quantity via trades, we were shorted on quality.

In looking back at last year's results (Collins, two WRs, and a bunch of guys from Rutgers), I can't help but think there is not any of these picks I would swap for any of the quality TE's from last years draft.

As far as the TE position goes, BB is all about creating and exploiting mismatches. And to that end, BB has two candidates from this draft that accomplish that goal.

1.) Amaro - He is a move TE and a mismatch nightmare, but NOT worth a first round pick as he simply can not block and is horrible on ST.

2.) ASJ - If you ignore his being a barely decent blocker, he has the size and mobility and hands to create mismatches in the secondary. Not sure what he can provide as far as ST goes. As a second round pick, he is probably good value, but probably not as a first round pick.

I still believe BB trades pick #29. If he gets a high second rounder in return, I could see him targeting ASJ.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Excellent summary.

One point to discuss. I think BB put us in a hole last year due to the lack of total draft picks we had to work with at the beginning of the draft. In many regards while we eventually wound up with quantity via trades, we were shorted on quality.

In looking back at last year's results (Collins, two WRs, and a bunch of guys from Rutgers), I can't help but think there is not any of these picks I would swap for any of the quality TE's from last years draft.

As far as the TE position goes, BB is all about creating and exploiting mismatches. And to that end, BB has two candidates from this draft that accomplish that goal.

1.) Amaro - He is a move TE and a mismatch nightmare, but NOT worth a first round pick as he simply can not block and is horrible on ST.

2.) ASJ - If you ignore his being a barely decent blocker, he has the size and mobility and hands to create mismatches in the secondary. Not sure what he can provide as far as ST goes. As a second round pick, he is probably good value, but probably not as a first round pick.

I still believe BB trades pick #29. If he gets a high second rounder in return, I could see him targeting ASJ.

A couple of comments regarding last year's draft and the TE position --

1) Agreed that it was a "quantity versus quality" draft in 2013. Not that the players didn't turn out decently, but I agree that's what the attempt appeared to be. But if you look at it, the Pats lost in 2012 because they had no depth when Gronk and Talib went down. They had few injuries before that (Hernandez and Edelman the most notable). They wanted to be in a position where key injuries didn't kill their chances again. Now, sadly enough, they lost in this year's AFCCG partly because Gronk and Talib went down. But the depth they accumulated this year prevented them from losing much earlier on when all the other major injuries struck to Wilfork, Mayo, Kelly, Vollmer, and even Spikes at the end, let alone the "minor" injuries that only knocked players out for a few games. Ryan and Harmon really helped save the secondary with their play while the starters were hurt, and we all saw how Collins did at the end.

2) I really think that they felt they had enough TE depth coming in. They had Gronk and Hernandez, but also Fells and Ballard. They expected better things from a healthy Fells, and they clearly thought Ballard and Gronk would be ready to go. So why waste a draft pick at that point? They picked up a couple of UDFAs but that's it. After the draft is when everything hit the fan. Should they have had a better assessment of Ballard at that point? Maybe. But I can see why they didn't take anyone last year here.

Anyway, we all know how much BB loves the TE position in the offense. This position will definitely be addressed in the offseason in some form and likely in multiple ways.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I kind of agree if Ebron is not there then lets avoid Amaro. Houman will be our blocking TE and Gronk is a good blocker as well. We need a guy in that Aaron Hernandez role. I would love to see Edelman/Gronk giving outlets in the middle of the field and Brady/McD having fun moving Ebron around.

If Ebron is gone, I think Amaro is a must. This offense is unstoppable when we have that BIG pass catching TE. He's too big and talented not to take if he's there at 29. In fact, I'd love for the Pats to wind up with 2 pass catching TE's BESIDES Gronk. I say that because I think Gronk may be pupped again while he finishes getting healthy. My dream is to sign Chandler and draft Amaro. Then the TE position is set until Gronk comes back. And we are set if/when Gronk gets hurts again. Also big talented pass catching TE's open up space for Dobson and Amendola and whoever else our WRs are going to be.

 

[p8ryts]

I kind of agree if Ebron is not there then lets avoid Amaro. Houman will be our blocking TE and Gronk is a good blocker as well. We need a guy in that Aaron Hernandez role. I would love to see Edelman/Gronk giving outlets in the middle of the field and Brady/McD having fun moving Ebron around.

I go with the guy from Iowa, CJ Fiederowicz (?) in 2nd or 3rd round.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Also big talented pass catching TE's open up space for Dobson and Amendola and whoever else our WRs are going to be.

That statement is true depending on the route tree we are running.

If nothing else a big TE that can get down field, allows BB to isolate RB's on LBers. (A true BB mismatch)

 

[captain stone]

I go with the guy from Iowa, CJ Fiederowicz (?) in 2nd or 3rd round.

He would have to wow me during the combine in order to justify a 2nd- our even a 3rd-round
grade. We need an athlete more closely resembling The Prisoner than HooHah.

 

[manxman2601]

He would have to wow me during the combine in order to justify a 2nd- our even a 3rd-round
grade. We need an athlete more closely resembling The Prisoner than HooHah.

I agree but I think we need a backup to Gronk also and Fiedorowicz fills that need. I think if we re-sign Blount, Fiedorowicz's value also improves because he'll be a beat in the power run game. Certainly no earlier than the third for me though unless, as you say, he runs well.

 

[DaBruinz]

He's very interesting but the big question is whether he's open to switching.

So, to quote someone else, is he Edelperson or Pat White?

From what I have read/seen, yes he's open to switching, though he practiced at QB at the Senior Bowl. That being said, his accuracy is hit or miss and there are questions about his mechanics.

 

[DaBruinz]

What will be interesting to see is how the TEs do with their 10 yard splits. I'll be honest, there are only 3-4 guys (from what I see) who have Hernandez's speed. The rest seem to have Gronkowski/Hoomanawanui speed, but not necessarily with the explosion we need off the ball. And that is where the good blocking and space separation comes from.

I honestly think that this draft carries more "1-trick" ponies when it comes to the TE position than other drafts have. And, for that reason, I am not buying into the idea that the TE position is all that deep.

 

[manxman2601]

From what I have read/seen, yes he's open to switching, though he practiced at QB at the Senior Bowl. That being said, his accuracy is hit or miss and there are questions about his mechanics.

I think Logan Thomas has the 10 yard explosiveness you were talking about in your other post. It's probably a pipe dream but I love Thomas' size and athleticism. He could be huge if he can be successfully converted.

 

[meatface]

I think Logan Thomas has the 10 yard explosiveness you were talking about in your other post. It's probably a pipe dream but I love Thomas' side and athleticism. He could be huge if he can be successfully converted.

I think your exactly right about all the tools being there for him to be a TE but I think some team is going to love his QB tools and draft him a round earlier than they should

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I think your exactly right about all the tools being there for him to be a TE but I think some team is going to love his QB tools and draft him a round earlier than they should

If Thomas wants to switch and works at it, he could be a ginormous Julian Edelman.

If he doesn't, he's Pat White/Tim Tebow.

 

[manxman2601]

If Thomas wants to switch and works at it, he could be a ginormous Julian Edelman.

If he doesn't, he's Pat White/Tim Tebow.

Mega-minitron!

 

[everlong]

I've been on the Logan Thomas conversion train for a while. If you can get him in the middle rounds I'd do it quickly.

So after last night are some of the TE proponents swayed to the DL side as #1 priority? I want a pass rush more than ever.

 

[mayoclinic]

I've been on the Logan Thomas conversion train for a while. If you can get him in the middle rounds I'd do it quickly.

So after last night are some of the TE proponents swayed to the DL side as #1 priority? I want a pass rush more than ever.

I also think Larry Webster would be a great TE conversion.

I've obviously been on the defense side for a while.

 

[everlong]

I've obviously been on the defense side for a while.

Funny but in past drafts we've disagreed as much as we've agreed which is to be expected. It's not a perfect science even for the real experts never mind weekend GMs like us. But this year is as close as we've been to being nearly on the same page. Which of course means Bill won't take anybody we want and will go in a direction none of us saw before hand. :bricks: