Talking TEs - 2014 Draft

[ashley]

I'd probably take ASJ. Donald and Hageman might make me reconsider but there's no DL other than that right now. I think TE is a bigger need than DL but the respective prospects factor into that decision. I'd most likely take Hageman and Donald over Amaro but Amaro over Jernigan or Ealy. Hope that makes sense.

Yes, I appreciate the answer!!! I'm trying to get a feel for which position is deeper in the draft. I keep reading conflicting stories about how someone will say the defensive line is deeper this draft while someone else will say it's the tight end position. In the end, I think what everyone wants on this board is for the Pats to put the best team on the field as possible. I know we need tight end help and I would be for taking 2 this draft. Most mocks I have seen have us taking a tight end with our first pick. I was thinking why not take a tight end in the third round and possibly another in the fourth or sixth while we get two stud d-linemen or a d-lineman and a safety with the first two picks. Either way, I this is a draft that I am really looking forward to. Thanks again Manx for your answer.

 

[mayoclinic]

Yes, I appreciate the answer!!! I'm trying to get a feel for which position is deeper in the draft. I keep reading conflicting stories about how someone will say the defensive line is deeper this draft while someone else will say it's the tight end position. In the end, I think what everyone wants on this board is for the Pats to put the best team on the field as possible. I know we need tight end help and I would be for taking 2 this draft. Most mocks I have seen have us taking a tight end with our first pick. I was thinking why not take a tight end in the third round and possibly another in the fourth or sixth while we get two stud d-linemen or a d-lineman and a safety with the first two picks. Either way, I this is a draft that I am really looking forward to. Thanks again Manx for your answer.

It all depend on how you rate the prospects at the various positions. It's not uncommon for one team to differ form another by several rounds in their valuation of a prospect.

Andrew Brandt suggests that most teams have already put together their initial draft boards, or are in the process of doing so:

2014 NFL Draft preparation begins with shaping of The Board | The MMQB with Peter King

A lot depends on how the Pats end up viewing the TE and DL positions. They might consider TE very deep, particularly if they like guys like Troy Niklas, Arthur Lynch, Richard Rodgers, Xavier Grimble and Marcel Jensen. Or they may feel that Eric Ebron, Jace Amaro and Austin Seferian-Jenkins are way better than the other guys, and worth taking early. Same thing at DT: there are guys like Brent Urban who some draftniks consider a 2nd round prospect, and others a 7th round/UDFA kind of guy; how the Pats view Justin Ellis, Zach Kerr, Beau Allen, Deandre Coleman, Caraun Reid, Daniel McCullers and others will have a big impact on whether they go after someone early like Louis Nix, Ra'Shede Hageman, Timmy Jernigan or Aaron Donald.

Free agency is the other factor. Depending on how they view the draft and who is available in FA, the Pats could choose to address either position predominantly one way or the other, or via a combination. They went into the 2010 draft (a very strong one at the TE position) essentially barren at TE, though they did discuss a potential trade for Chicago TE Greg Olsen.

Odds are high that both positions will be addressed fairly extensively between FA and the draft, quite possibly with a "double dip" for both. We know from prior years that who the Pats' like may be at considerable variance with the consensus rankings, so it's very hard (essentially impossible) to figure out what they will do.

 

[ashley]

Thank you Mayo for that post. I appreciate it. With the combine coming up and then the pro days, it's going to be so much fun around here leading up to the draft, a lot of the guys on here know so much, I really enjoy reading all the posts!!!!

 

[Mark Morse]

I also think Larry Webster would be a great TE conversion.

I've obviously been on the defense side for a while.

I am all over this pick! I Love the idea of drafting Webster as a DE/LB pass rushing specialist and third TE. I agree he will need a "redshirt" to convert to an NFL player but his athleticism is scary. I could see him replacing Bequette on the roster. Remember he has only played 1 year of football.

 

[Mark Morse]

I expect the Pats to re-sign Edelman and if that means having to cut Amendola so be it!

1st pick (whether or not its in round 1 or 2) is either DL or OL. If a player drops like Hageman then they will jump at him. I like Yankey because of his versatility (he can play all three positions).

I also expect a Center to be picked. I like Larsen from Utah St. 52 consecutive starts in college after an injury (red shirt) year.

Richard Rogers was under utilized. he dropped 30 lbs to fit into the new coaches offense. Can play at 275. Mentioned above that I like Larry Webster as a conversion project that can also be used as a situational pass rusher.

Don't expect Gronk back until mid season so I would go out and get a starter in FA. Always liked the way Scott Chandler plays. He starts until Gronk is ready. Draft a second and third TE.

Another player I like is LSU fullback JC Copeland. At 285 he croaks LBs. Can be a short yardage runner too! Blount is going to get an offer similar to what BJGE got from Cinci and we wont come close to that.

Franchise Talib and hope we can sign a long term deal then draft a SS and CB.

Can't wait to see what some of these guys can run at the combine.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Yes, I appreciate the answer!!! I'm trying to get a feel for which position is deeper in the draft. I keep reading conflicting stories about how someone will say the defensive line is deeper this draft while someone else will say it's the tight end position. In the end, I think what everyone wants on this board is for the Pats to put the best team on the field as possible. I know we need tight end help and I would be for taking 2 this draft. Most mocks I have seen have us taking a tight end with our first pick. I was thinking why not take a tight end in the third round and possibly another in the fourth or sixth while we get two stud d-linemen or a d-lineman and a safety with the first two picks. Either way, I this is a draft that I am really looking forward to. Thanks again Manx for your answer.

Ashley:

FWIW, another factor to consider is how much the Patriots want to keep running 2-TE sets. If Belichick thinks that's still important, then TE becomes more important. If he's OK with moving towards more 3-WR sets, then TE probably isn't a first-round need.

 

[manxman2601]

Yes, I appreciate the answer!!! I'm trying to get a feel for which position is deeper in the draft. I keep reading conflicting stories about how someone will say the defensive line is deeper this draft while someone else will say it's the tight end position. In the end, I think what everyone wants on this board is for the Pats to put the best team on the field as possible. I know we need tight end help and I would be for taking 2 this draft. Most mocks I have seen have us taking a tight end with our first pick. I was thinking why not take a tight end in the third round and possibly another in the fourth or sixth while we get two stud d-linemen or a d-lineman and a safety with the first two picks. Either way, I this is a draft that I am really looking forward to. Thanks again Manx for your answer.

My view is that the draft for TE actually isn't that deep this year because you get past Ebron, ASJ, Amaro, Niklas there's a drop off in athleticism. I like Fiedorowicz, for example, but he seems to lack genuine NFL explosion and whilst a really good blocker will most likely not be much of a threat at receiver. Another popular one is Arthur Lynch but again I see limited athleticism on not a great frame. If we are looking for a starter we need to get one early. Two exceptions:

1. Richard Rodgers from Cal. He's projected day 3 right now but I think will rise into day two following the combine. Has performed similarly to Amaro statistically. He's an interesting move TE option.

2. Logan Thomas. Has the size and athleticism to be a top TE. There are obvious question marks with Thomas and it's probably a pipe dream but his upside interests me.

Ashley:

FWIW, another factor to consider is how much the Patriots want to keep running 2-TE sets. If Belichick thinks that's still important, then TE becomes more important. If he's OK with moving towards more 3-WR sets, then TE probably isn't a first-round need.

This is important and I agree. Especially if they figure that Mark Harrison can play a move TE role. I am working on the idea that we'll be using double TE a fair bit (especially if we re-sign Blount) but McDaniels does tend to favour 3WR sets and a spread offense.

 

[ashley]

I expect the Pats to re-sign Edelman and if that means having to cut Amendola so be it!

1st pick (whether or not its in round 1 or 2) is either DL or OL. If a player drops like Hageman then they will jump at him. I like Yankey because of his versatility (he can play all three positions).

I also expect a Center to be picked. I like Larsen from Utah St. 52 consecutive starts in college after an injury (red shirt) year.

Richard Rogers was under utilized. he dropped 30 lbs to fit into the new coaches offense. Can play at 275. Mentioned above that I like Larry Webster as a conversion project that can also be used as a situational pass rusher.

Don't expect Gronk back until mid season so I would go out and get a starter in FA. Always liked the way Scott Chandler plays. He starts until Gronk is ready. Draft a second and third TE.

Another player I like is LSU fullback JC Copeland. At 285 he croaks LBs. Can be a short yardage runner too! Blount is going to get an offer similar to what BJGE got from Cinci and we wont come close to that.

Franchise Talib and hope we can sign a long term deal then draft a SS and CB.

Can't wait to see what some of these guys can run at the combine.

I'm hoping in a perfect world we find a way to resign both Talib and Edelman. I would hate to have to cut Amendola after just one year, I know he was disappointing, but I think his groin had a lot to do with it. Hopefully, we can go into next year with our full set of wide receivers and corners from
this past year. That will be two less positions we have to focus on early.

I was reading Kiper and he talked yesterday about how the draft isn't too deep on the defensive line and how there is a big drop off after round 3 and 4. That was the first time I heard this.

I agree with you on drafting a safety, still hoping for Pryor!!!!

 

[Ochmed Jones]

This is important and I agree. Especially if they figure that Mark Harrison can play a move TE role. I am working on the idea that we'll be using double TE a fair bit (especially if we re-sign Blount) but McDaniels does tend to favour 3WR sets and a spread offense.

On offense BB will always gravitate toward the mismatch. Whichever lineup gives him the best shot at creating a matchup he can exploit, will dictate which players BB uses.

Lately it seems that with all the smaller, faster, pass first defenses, BB had success with the power running game. The next logical step is play action with the TE running down the deep seam, which, in my mind screams ASJ.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I expect the Pats to re-sign Edelman and if that means having to cut Amendola so be it!

Cutting Amendola will result in more of a cap hit than keeping him, I'm not sure about trading him though.

 

[manxman2601]

On offense BB will always gravitate toward the mismatch. Whichever lineup gives him the best shot at creating a matchup he can exploit, will dictate which players BB uses.

Lately it seems that with all the smaller, faster, pass first defenses, BB had success with the power running game. The next logical step is play action with the TE running down the deep seam, which, in my mind screams ASJ.

How much of that is BB and how much McDaniels I wonder. McDaniels does seem to have significant input into this offense. And despite the criticism he gets, I think McDaniels has tremendous versatility as an OC. While I think he favours the WR heavy spread offense, he's not locked in as he showed working with Blount last year or Hernandez/Gronk previously.

I too am hoping for more ASJ both because of his receiving but also his blocking. More Blount-force trauma please.

 

[everlong]

On offense BB will always gravitate toward the mismatch. Whichever lineup gives him the best shot at creating a matchup he can exploit, will dictate which players BB uses.

Lately it seems that with all the smaller, faster, pass first defenses, BB had success with the power running game. The next logical step is play action with the TE running down the deep seam, which, in my mind screams ASJ.

The thing about ASJ the more I watch him is he can run the entire route tree and unlike Dobson and Tompkins he already understands how to execute a back shoulder throw when he lines up wide. He can go up for a ball on the outside especially in the end zone as well as most of the big WRs.

I really think he's gone by 29.

 

[ashley]

The thing about ASJ the more I watch him is he can run the entire route tree and unlike Dobson and Tompkins he already understands how to execute a back shoulder throw when he lines up wide. He can go up for a ball on the outside especially in the end zone as well as most of the big WRs.

I really think he's gone by 29.

Do you think 3 tight ends go in round 1 or do you think Amero goes in the second round? I was always under the assumption that Amero would be the second tight taken.

 

[everlong]

Do you think 3 tight ends go in round 1 or do you think Amero goes in the second round? I was always under the assumption that Amero would be the second tight taken.

I don't think Amaro goes in the first. I'm just not a fan. That said there's a lot of need. GB assuming Finley is gone, Baltimore, Arizona, Cleveland, NE and Seattle could all look at one just from the second half of the first round. The later Ebron goes the better for the Pats.

 

[manxman2601]

Do you think 3 tight ends go in round 1 or do you think Amero goes in the second round? I was always under the assumption that Amero would be the second tight taken.

A lot will depend on the combine. If Amaro and/or ASJ run under 4.7 then they both have a good chance of going in the first. The same goes for Niklas.

 

[mayoclinic]

I don't think Amaro goes in the first. I'm just not a fan. That said there's a lot of need. GB assuming Finley is gone, Baltimore, Arizona, Cleveland, NE and Seattle could all look at one just from the second half of the first round. The later Ebron goes the better for the Pats.

I'm not a fan either, but I think he goes in the 1st. Hopefully just not to us.

 

[ashley]

I'm not a fan either, but I think he goes in the 1st. Hopefully just not to us.

I agree, I would rather take defense with the first pick. I do find the tight ends fascinating this year though. I think that's because of our need for the position. That's why I am so looking forward to the combine this year and following this position so closely.

 

[mayoclinic]

I agree, I would rather take defense with the first pick. I do find the tight ends fascinating this year though. I think that's because of our need for the position. That's why I am so looking forward to the combine this year and following this position so closely.

I think you need assess prospects independent of need, then put your board together factoring need in and stay true to your board. TE is certainly a need, but so are other positions. If the Pats consider Amaro a 1st round talent he should certainly be in the mix; if they don't, then I don't think reaching to fill a need makes sense. I don't consider him a 1st round talent, but that's JMHO.

 

[manxman2601]

I agree, I would rather take defense with the first pick. I do find the tight ends fascinating this year though. I think that's because of our need for the position. That's why I am so looking forward to the combine this year and following this position so closely.

I think the thing to do is not to rely on CBS Sports for rankings because they tend to react quite slowly to consensus changes in draft stock and to not get too excited by prospects until we've had the combine because often their stocks will fly up. I was a big fan of Ziggy Ansah last year and taking a mid-round flyer on Terron Armstead pre-combine. I could easily see Pryor going top 20 or even top 15 this year.

By the way, I'm not criticising CBS Sports, they are an invaluable resource for us amateurs.

 

[mayoclinic]

I think the thing to do is not to rely on CBS Sports for rankings because they tend to react quite slowly to consensus changes in draft stock and to not get too excited by prospects until we've had the combine because often their stocks will fly up. I was a big fan of Ziggy Ansah last year and taking a mid-round flyer on Terron Armstead pre-combine. I could easily see Pryor going top 20 or even top 15 this year.

By the way, I'm not criticising CBS Sports, they are an invaluable resource for us amateurs.

They do react slowly. I remember them having Nick Fairley ranked in the 500's about the time Box picked him out as a high 1st rounder. Similar thing with you and Ansah. Talent that obvious is obvious.