Suspect drafting past few years

[RobertWeathers]

Great post. All of the Belichick suck ups can ignore your post if they like. Those with two eyes and an open mind can see what the problem is. Belichick should pass the drafting to someone who knows what they are doing. Taking Tom Brady in the sixth round is used up. Its time to draft some players, of course there is not one player SMART enough to play under Belichick

Before totally throwing BB and the FO under the bus, for proper perspective, I'd like to see how every other NFL team has done since 2000.

With that said, the Pats have not replaced the players that have left with similar production at the team's pinnacle of success. Bad trades. Bad FA pickups, bad drafting, etc. Player development could also be an issue. They were nailing it from 01-07 on most points but after a while, it catches up to a team.

Still though, they are in contention for a division title and SB every year and BB deserves just as much credit for that as missing on players. Lets be balanced here.

My .02$

 

[mgteich]

I suggest a couple of points.
1) List only Rounds 1-4 separately from 5-7
2) Do not list anyone that was injured
3) Post the success rate for other teams or for an average draft so that you can compare

Great post. All of the Belichick suck ups can ignore your post if they like. Those with two eyes and an open mind can see what the problem is. Belichick should pass the drafting to someone who knows what they are doing. Taking Tom Brady in the sixth round is used up. Its time to draft some players, of course there is not one player SMART enough to play under Belichick

 

[Deus Irae]

Great post. All of the Belichick suck ups can ignore your post if they like. Those with two eyes and an open mind can see what the problem is. Belichick should pass the drafting to someone who knows what they are doing. Taking Tom Brady in the sixth round is used up. Its time to draft some players, of course there is not one player SMART enough to play under Belichick

Funny..... here I'm a "Belichick suck up", Yet, in other threads, The Dynasty claims that I'm all about bashing Belichick.


Not everyone falls into either the "homer" or "hater" category.

 

[JackBauer]

What the hell has Burgess and Springs done for this? Springs has done NOTHING for this team and has been a healthy scratch for the past month. Why is this? I believe it is because the coaching staff does not faith him to get it done or they aren't happy with his work ethnic. He is the highest paid corner on this defense and isn't playing? How can you call this a good signing? He has been a huge waste thus far.

Derrick Burgess was brought into help replace Seymour's production in rushing the passer and he has a grand total of 2 Sacks and has been horrendous vs the run. He has sucked ca ca and has been a horrible bust.. The pass rush has to be one of the worst this decade on this team. Take a look buddy at the free agent signings and trades over the past 4 seasons:

Michael Stone
Joey Galloway
Duane Starks
Monty Beisel
Chad Brown
Artrell Hawkins
Greg Lewis
Deltha O'Neal
Shawn Springs
Adalius Thomas
Hank Poteat

The good:

The Trade for Randy Moss and Wes Welker.

Are you blind here? Those free agents above have flat out been HORRIFIC. They have been all non productive and garbage. Every last one of those guys. Don't come in here and starting preaching at the top of you're lungs that Bill just missed on a few. No No No, this is far far more then "just a few" this offseason after offseason.

This isn't good people and we have blown chances in free agency and in the draft. Don't take a blind eye to it. It is happening and some people don't think it, and there mistaken.

But then again, you're the guy who thought Tony Ugoh was starting for the Colts and had solidified their tackle position. And the inclusion of Artrell Hawkins on that list is yet another piece of evidence that suggests you don't really know what you're talking about. Add the glaring FA omissions from your "positives" list, and reasonable posters can conclude that your screeds aren't worth the time it takes to read them.

 

[The Intimidator]

But then again, you're the guy who thought Tony Ugoh was starting for the Colts and had solidified their tackle position. And the inclusion of Artrell Hawkins on that list is yet another piece of evidence that suggests you don't really know what you're talking about. Add the glaring FA omissions from your "positives" list, and reasonable posters can conclude that your screeds aren't worth the time it takes to read them.

Wow I said something about Tony Ugoh. He is a backup O-Lineman in Indy, while our 2nd round pick from that year is on the street. I never said he was a tarter look back that post. - Awesome. Are you claiming that Artrell Hawkins was a good pickup for us? He sucked ca ca period, a horrible addition. Tell me why he was so great? He wasn't.

Where is you're logic? This is a load of nonsense.

I think with you're love affair and you're in Bill we trust is hampering you from making intelligent accounts about the Patriots.

Please kiss BB's Ass elsewhere.

 

[Brady to Brown]

Before totally throwing BB and the FO under the bus, for proper perspective, I'd like to see how every other NFL team has done since 2000.

With that said, the Pats have not replaced the players that have left with similar production at the team's pinnacle of success. Bad trades. Bad FA pickups, bad drafting, etc. Player development could also be an issue. They were nailing it from 01-07 on most points but after a while, it catches up to a team.

Still though, they are in contention for a division title and SB every year and BB deserves just as much credit for that as missing on players. Lets be balanced here.

My .02$

There is not another coach I would want over Belichick, lets not pretend we can't see the moles though. No one is perfect. The Patriots need to do a better job drafting. It is what it is.

 

[Brady to Brown]

Funny..... here I'm a "Belichick suck up", Yet, in other threads, The Dynasty claims that I'm all about bashing Belichick.


Not everyone falls into either the "homer" or "hater" category.

I never said everyone did.

I read this borad a lot and agree with most of what you post.

You were complaining about things long before others and took lots of grief for it. How you can't see what a poor job the Patriots are doing at drafting players that fit "their system" is beyond me. The man is a LB coach and he can't find one to save his life.

 

[carolinatony]

We are too pass happy and need to run the ball more.
Use some time on the clock and keep the defense off the field longer. Control that clock so the defense will be a bit fresher in the 4th quarter.
We won 3 SB's without a great passing game and more balance.
What happened to our TE's; you use to have 3/4 on the roster and now down to two and don't throw to them.
We don't have a FB to help block; What happened to Heath Evans and we had another one I can't remember.
Draft a big run blocking OG and run the ball.

 

[Deus Irae]

I never said everyone did.

I read this borad a lot and agree with most of what you post.

You were complaining about things long before others and took lots of grief for it. How you can't see what a poor job the Patriots are doing at drafting players that fit "their system" is beyond me. The man is a LB coach and he can't find one to save his life.

I don't think they've been flawless. No team has. I just think that people don't look at the full picture.

Not a single first round bust
Only 2 second round picks from 2005-2008, and both suffered significant, IR type injuries as rookies.

3rd round picks included Hobbs, Kaczur and Thomas, not to mention Crable the injured. The only pure 'bust' pick in the round from'05 to '08 was O'Connell.

So, out of 11 picks taken in rounds 3 or above from 2005-2008, only 1 has been an uninjured bust.

Then, just to add in the 4th round, you've got

Sanders
Mills
Gostkowski
Brown
Wilhite

That's not terrible, either. Depending on your take with Sanders/Wilhite, you've got 1-3 starter level players, 0-2 backups and two players that bounced around but didn't manage to find a real NFL role.

 

[Wretch]

We are too pass happy and need to run the ball more.
Use some time on the clock and keep the defense off the field longer. Control that clock so the defense will be a bit fresher in the 4th quarter.
We won 3 SB's without a great passing game and more balance.
What happened to our TE's; you use to have 3/4 on the roster and now down to two and don't throw to them.
We don't have a FB to help block; What happened to Heath Evans and we had another one I can't remember.
Draft a big run blocking OG and run the ball.

You realize we lead the league in time of possession, right? My evidence in only anecdotal but my feeling is the red zone offense is the problem. The Pats are moving the ball but turnovers and FGs instead of TDs is killing them.

See the Indy game (LoMo fumble) and the Miami game (Brady INT and turnover on downs) as perfect examples.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with both of you.

1) The 2005-2008 drafts have been fine.
2) Bleichick can't seem to draft linebackers unless he uses a top 10 pick.

I don't think they've been flawless. No team has. I just think that people don't look at the full picture.

Not a single first round bust
Only 2 second round picks from 2005-2008, and both suffered significant, IR type injuries as rookies.

3rd round picks included Hobbs, Kaczur and Thomas, not to mention Crable the injured. The only pure 'bust' pick in the round from'05 to '08 was O'Connell.

So, out of 11 picks taken in rounds 3 or above from 2005-2008, only 1 has been an uninjured bust.

Then, just to add in the 4th round, you've got

Sanders
Mills
Gostkowski
Brown
Wilhite

That's not terrible, either. Depending on your take with Sanders/Wilhite, you've got 1-3 starter level players, 0-2 backups and two players that bounced around but didn't manage to find a real NFL role.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah, I guess if there's some small comfort, it's that we're not the only "elite" team in the league having major issues this season.

Just as a follow up here.....

Polamalu may not return at all this season, according to at least one report:

PITTSBURGH (AP) -With the Pittsburgh Steelers fast running out of games and his left knee still not healed, star safety Troy Polamalu isn't certain if he will be back this season.

Polamalu is hopeful of playing again in 2009, but he said Tuesday there is no definitive date for his return

Polamalu uncertain about playing again this season - NFL- nbcsports.msnbc.com

 

[chris66]

I'm no expert om the draft and dont pretend to be, but if drafting isnt the issue. Then why have we lost 4 games with leads going into the 4th quarter

Why do we have no trouble scoring in the first have burt cant muster anything in the 2nd half

Why are we near the bottom the last couple of years on third down defense and red zone defense.

If the issue isnt talent than it has to be coaching.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

I don't think they've been flawless. No team has. I just think that people don't look at the full picture.

Not a single first round bust
Only 2 second round picks from 2005-2008, and both suffered significant, IR type injuries as rookies.

3rd round picks included Hobbs, Kaczur and Thomas, not to mention Crable the injured. The only pure 'bust' pick in the round from'05 to '08 was O'Connell.

So, out of 11 picks taken in rounds 3 or above from 2005-2008, only 1 has been an uninjured bust.

Then, just to add in the 4th round, you've got

Sanders
Mills
Gostkowski
Brown
Wilhite

That's not terrible, either. Depending on your take with Sanders/Wilhite, you've got 1-3 starter level players, 0-2 backups and two players that bounced around but didn't manage to find a real NFL role.

I doubt anyone would have a problem with the 2005 draft. It's the 2006-2008 drafts that have failed to produce much talent for this years team. It's fair to assume that draft picks should still be with the team for four years. I see 4 good picks out of 26.

2006
1. Maroney- has had occasional moments but not what's expected from a #1 pick
2. Jackson- Thought it was a good pick at the time, turned out to be a horrible one
3. Thomas- Has produced the same #'s in 9 games for NO that he did in three years for NE
4. Mills- Still on the Minn PS
4. Gostkowski- Good pick but high price for a kicker

2007
1. Meriwether and that's it. Eight other UFL hopefuls.

2008
1. Mayo- good pick but needs to make more impact plays
2. Wheatley- has shown very little even in his second season. Beat out by
4th rounder
3. Crable-has not seen the field yet
3. O'Connell-released after one whole year
4. Wilhite- good pick, will make a good nickel back
5. Slater-He does something really well, I'm just not sure what it is. Seems to play out of control and not in a good way

So basically they hit on their three 1st rounders, depending on what your opinion of Maroney is, and two forths. Only 3 of 19 picks from 2006-2007 are still on the team. They need to do better than that to remain competitive.
The potential of this years draft picks look good so hopefully they've fixed the problem.

 

[wilfork is beastin']

Regarding the 2007 draft, I think the team did a great job all things considered. They had 2 first round picks, used one on Meriweather and traded the other for what eventually became Mayo. Then we traded our 2nd round pick for Welker. We didn't have a pick again until the 3rd round, so getting someone like Woodley was out of the question. then they traded their 4th rd pick for Moss while all the other picks were in the low rounds and there wasn't much value there. In the end, the 07 draft essentially gave us:

Meriweather
Welker
Moss
Mayo

can't really complain about that year.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Regarding the 2007 draft, I think the team did a great job all things considered. They had 2 first round picks, used one on Meriweather and traded the other for what eventually became Mayo. Then we traded our 2nd round pick for Welker. We didn't have a pick again until the 3rd round, so getting someone like Woodley was out of the question. then they traded their 4th rd pick for Moss while all the other picks were in the low rounds and there wasn't much value there. In the end, the 07 draft essentially gave us:

Meriweather
Welker
Moss
Mayo

can't really complain about that year.

Moss and Welker were acquired through trades, they were not draft picks. The discussion is about how well they have drafted not about trades they have made. Mayo can only count for one pick whether you want to call it 2007 or 2008.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

I havent been happy with the drafting in previous years.


No OLB this past draft? Okay I'm thinking BB definitely knows about a FA pickup or Trade that I dont know about...JTaylor/Peppers must be coming.... Nope. Nothing. And we're left with no one at OLB, and even worse... No hopeful prospects at OLB.

Picking a Career Backup in Ron Brace instead of using that pick for an OLB... I just dont get it.


Not only select drafting, but select Front Office moves all around. Trading Seymour right before the season starts when he was our best or 2nd best defensive player. Huge fail and took away our chances this year. With Seymour, we're a SB contender and in the upper echelon of the NFL. Without Seymour, I can see us easily losing to any team in the playoffs right now.

 

[Deus Irae]

I doubt anyone would have a problem with the 2005 draft. It's the 2006-2008 drafts that have failed to produce much talent for this years team. It's fair to assume that draft picks should still be with the team for four years. I see 4 good picks out of 26.

2006
1. Maroney- has had occasional moments but not what's expected from a #1 pick
2. Jackson- Thought it was a good pick at the time, turned out to be a horrible one
3. Thomas- Has produced the same #'s in 9 games for NO that he did in three years for NE
4. Mills- Still on the Minn PS
4. Gostkowski- Good pick but high price for a kicker

2007
1. Meriwether and that's it. Eight other UFL hopefuls.

2008
1. Mayo- good pick but needs to make more impact plays
2. Wheatley- has shown very little even in his second season. Beat out by
4th rounder
3. Crable-has not seen the field yet
3. O'Connell-released after one whole year
4. Wilhite- good pick, will make a good nickel back
5. Slater-He does something really well, I'm just not sure what it is. Seems to play out of control and not in a good way

So basically they hit on their three 1st rounders, depending on what your opinion of Maroney is, and two forths. Only 3 of 19 picks from 2006-2007 are still on the team. They need to do better than that to remain competitive.
The potential of this years draft picks look good so hopefully they've fixed the problem.

The 2007 draft brought the team an excellent young safety, the game's best slot receiver and one of the 5 best wide receivers of all time. Complaining because of a 4th, 5th, four 6ths and 2 7ths is beyond being greedy. People pointing to the number of picks consistently ignore the location of the picks when complaining, and that makes their argument worse than useless, because it makes it misleading.

Smith was traded because of a perceived logjam on the defensive line. He was a 6th round draft pick who brought back a 5th rounder in that trade.

O'Callaghan was on track to push Kaczur for the starting RT job until injuries derailed him. He's now starting for the Chiefs.

Andrews was a top special teams player until legal trouble got him cut from the team.

Stevenson was in the Texans mini-camp when he suffered what's likely to be a career ending injury.

As for the "UFL hopefuls" line.... Rogers and Richardson are both still in the NFL.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

The 2007 draft brought the team an excellent young safety, the game's best slot receiver and one of the 5 best wide receivers of all time. Complaining because of a 4th, 5th, four 6ths and 2 7ths is beyond being greedy. People pointing to the number of picks consistently ignore the location of the picks when complaining, and that makes their argument worse than useless, because it makes it misleading.

Smith was traded because of a perceived logjam on the defensive line. He was a 6th round draft pick who brought back a 5th rounder in that trade.

O'Callaghan was on track to push Kaczur for the starting RT job until injuries derailed him. He's now starting for the Chiefs.

Andrews was a top special teams player until legal trouble got him cut from the team.

Stevenson was in the Texans mini-camp when he suffered what's likely to be a career ending injury.

As for the "UFL hopefuls" line.... Rogers and Richardson are both still in the NFL.

like someone mentioned before......welker and moss were not drafted, and the thread is about how the pats have drafted in recent year

not sure what is so hard about understanding this concept.

that said, its hard to gage after the fact without going through the drafts in great detail.

2006 - maroney's verdict is still out.....he is still as young as players coming out of college, so there is still hope for him......jackson? now you know why they went after welker and moss. jackson was an epic disaster. trading up for him? while sinorice moss, greg jenning, devin hester, brandon marshall, and marques colston all taken later? a real head scratcher...the rest of the 2006 draft was OK, its just that the pats couldn't figure out how to get thomas and mills onto the field

2007 - merweather was a good pick. yes they traded for welker and moss, but that isn't drafting. the best of the rest of the draft (brown) is trying his hand at TE since he stinks so bad at DL......

2008 - mayo was a good pick, but poor to zero value the rest of the way. crable and oconnell were wasted picks. better was had at both positions later in the draft. jury still out for wheatley and wilhite, but it is interesting that the pats draft butler and chung the very next year.

that said, outside of the waste of space known as ron brace, the 2009 draft has been more than productive with chung, butler,vollmer,pryor.....hopefully we'll get something out of tate and mckenzie, too

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I agree with both of you.

1) The 2005-2008 drafts have been fine.
2) Bleichick can't seem to draft linebackers unless he uses a top 10 pick.

he's just as bad at drafting WR's