Still Think Maroney, Pees have to go?

[mcsully]

Because he missed a season due to injury, and anyways, 24/34 is still in the middle third of first round picks...IE, average.

Do your math, average would be 17.. Give or take a spot.. He's WELL Below average on touches..


There's a list of players that were drafted in the same year and have had better careers

You COPY & PASTE post listed Edge, Duece and Jones.. Your aware 1 is out of football and the other 2 are spot duty players.. So i'm not sure a lot of the facts presented are a true representation of the top 32 RB's in the league..

 

[sbpatfan]

Two important facts I pulled from your copy and paste from another..

Total Carries Rank
449 = 24/34

Total Yards Rank
1938 = 23/34

Why does LM not get the ball more? Its not like we're playing from behind..

LM = 1st round pick, never has played 16 games and reach 1000 yards..

Corey Dillion = 2nd round pick, reached over 1600 yards in the same system.


My expectations are.. Our rate of return isn't there with LM..
.

You do realize the Patriots offense has changed over the years, right? This is a pass heavy offense that splits carries and playing time between four backs barring injuries. If you think it's the "same system" you're clueless.

 

[mcsully]

Because he missed a season due to injury,

BINGO.. He's never played a full season.. One of my issues with him..

Thank you

 

[Synovia]

During the time of Taylor being healthy, he averaged more touches than LM

No, actually he didnt. Maroney had 26 touches, Taylor had 25.

Maroney has played significantly more snaps than Taylor, despite not having significantly more carries/receptions.


Maroney was hurt in the first quarter in Atlanta, so if you want to include that game, you have to include the games Taylor was hurt.

 

[Synovia]

Do your math, average would be 17.. Give or take a spot.. He's WELL Below average on touches..

Except average isn't one spot. Average is a range, generally considered the middle third in these types of distributions.

 

[mcsully]

You do realize the Patriots offense has changed over the years, right? This is a pass heavy offense that splits carries and playing time between four backs barring injuries. If you think it's the "same system" you're clueless.

Um.. Yea.. We're running the same system.. Its definitely been tweaked, no question about that.. You honestly can say if Maroney was the "man" like so many people here believe, BB wouldnt' put him in position to contribute more?

 

[Synovia]

Um.. Yea.. We're running the same system.. Its definitely been tweaked, no question about that.. You honestly can say if Maroney was the "man" like so many people here believe, BB wouldnt' put him in position to contribute more?

Um, no, we're not running the same system.

Since Corey Dillon was the starter, we've changed from Drive Blocking to Zone Blocking. We've changed from a base Pro Set to a base Shotgun 3-wide.

 

[Ring 6]

Two important facts I pulled from your copy and paste from another..

Total Carries Rank
449 = 24/34

Total Yards Rank
1938 = 23/34

Why does LM not get the ball more? Its not like we're playing from behind..

LM = 1st round pick, never has played 16 games and reach 1000 yards..

Corey Dillion = 2nd round pick, reached over 1600 yards in the same system.


My expectations are.. Our rate of return isn't there with LM..



I've never said he doesn't have the tools.. My problem with him is he hesitates hitting the hole.. Fact is prior to Taylor getting hurt, he was starting over LM.. Taylor got the ball 45 times in 4 games. Where LM in 7 games only got it 61 times. Taylor has more touches per average and the level of competition was higher..

Taylor had 21 of those 45 in a game Maroney was injured, and averaged only 8 in the other 3 games.
You seem to be wrapped up in this opinion that if you like the running style the player is good and if you don't like the running style the player is bad regardless of the results.
There are numbers that support every conclusion you have drawn about the effect of Maroneys running style are wrong. Why not just accept that you have a poor ability to judge running styles, rather than continue to be wrong.
The number of opportunites Maroney has had to run the ball is not Maroney's fault. It is not Maroney's fault that his coach is out in front of the rest of the league as they begin to follow suit and realize that RBs should share the workload. It is not Maroney's fault that the number of rushes he has had are reduced by the fact that the Patriots have the GOAT at QB and one of the best WR corps of all time, so we throw a lot instead of run.
Are you saying if Adrian Peterson was on a team that had Tom Brady, Randy Moss and Wes Welker, and his coach decided that the best way to win SBs was to split RB carries to preserve them for the playoffs and he carried 180 times a season, he would be less of a RB?

 

[emoney_33]

Talk about nitpicking stats to support your clearly false argument...

Why does LM not get the ball more? Its not like we're playing from behind..

You attack the knowledge of others but then make the huge leap from LM not getting a lot of carries to LM being terrible? Really? It has nothing to do with the screen abilities, BB philosophy of not wearing down his RBs, Brady, Moss, Welker, the fact that the OL is better at pass blocking, etc... etc...

REALLY?

LM = 1st round pick, never has played 16 games and reach 1000 yards..

Corey Dillion = 2nd round pick, reached over 1600 yards in the same system.

What is your point here? So I don't jump to conclusions, what is it that you want to say? Dillon is better than Maroney? No one is arguing otherwise.

In 2004 what run blocking scheme were we using? Was the OL better at run blocking in 2004 than they are now or recently after switching to zone blocking scheme?

And what happened after that amazing workhorse season by Dillon? I also wonder whether having Moss and Welker instead of Givens and Patten effects the way they approach the running game at all?

My expectations are.. Our rate of return isn't there with LM..



I've never said he doesn't have the tools.. My problem with him is he hesitates hitting the hole..

And how does what you perceive as hesitating to hit the hole impact his performance? It's logical to believe that someone who consistently hesitates in a negative way will have a poor success rate. Why then does Maroney consistently have a GOOD success rate? Oh yea, let's just ignore facts again.

Fact is prior to Taylor getting hurt, he was starting over LM.. Taylor got the ball 45 times in 4 games. Where LM in 7 games only got it 61 times. Taylor has more touches per average and the level of competition was higher..

As has been shown to you already, Taylor got signficantly more carries than LM in exactly ONE game. Say it with me... ONE GAME (Atlanta).

You once again try to manipulate statistics in your favor, yet accuse others of cherry picking. Seriously, do you not understand that RB sharing the load is a philosophical change and not a knock on any one RB?

What happened to Dillon in '05 after his workhorse season in '04? Was the team better off in '06 with Dillon/Maroney sharing the load?

It once again comes down to your preconceived notion that Maroney was drafted in the first round to be a carry-the-load feature RB. It's quite obvious that BB feels much differently about how RB should be used these days.

 

[Wretch]

Request to Mods:
Can we merge all of these concurrent Maroney is a bust/made of glass threads. Maybe even make it sticky so we don't have to have a rehashing of the same arguments over and over again.

 

[mcsully]

Except average isn't one spot. Average is a range, generally considered the middle third in these types of distributions.

C u can't use average to support your arguement and then turn it around and say "AVERAGE ISN't One spot".. To funny..

 

[mcsully]

Taylor had 21 of those 45 in a game Maroney was injured,

great point..Taylor gets the ball more than LM, when LM is hurt.. Where LM doesn't see the ball as much when Taylor is hurt.. hmm.. Could this be because BB doesn't want to over work him or that his production doesn't merit it?? Either way, he doesn't get the ball as much..

TX

 

[Synovia]

C u can't use average to support your arguement and then turn it around and say "AVERAGE ISN't One spot".. To funny..

Do you understand basic statistics?

 

[Ring 6]

I think I've seen Maroney on the field on about a grand total of 6 plays (prior to this year) in the shotgun. He almost never gets used in that formation. It's faulk's formation.

The you must have watched about a half a game.
Maroney gets a TON probably close to half of his carries as draws out of the shotgun.

 

[mcsully]

Do you understand basic statistics?

I'd hope so.. I'm an IT Engineer for the largest Health Care Provider in the country..

 

[mcsully]

The you must have watched about a half a game.
Maroney gets a TON probably close to half of his carries as draws out of the shotgun.

THats what I'm saying.. He gets the benefit of playing in this formation when the defense has 5 DB's on the field & is playing the pass.

 

[Ring 6]

great point..Taylor gets the ball more than LM, when LM is hurt.. Where LM doesn't see the ball as much when Taylor is hurt.. hmm.. Could this be because BB doesn't want to over work him or that his production doesn't merit it?? Either way, he doesn't get the ball as much..

TX

What?
Taylor and Maroney got about an equal number of carries when both were healthy.
Taylor had 1 game where he got extra carries because Maroney was injured.
Maroney 'lost' carries the last 2 games because the games were out of reach early.

 

[emoney_33]

THats what I'm saying.. He gets the benefit of playing in this formation when the defense has 5 DB's on the field & is playing the pass.

Why do you ignore the many detailed posts with factual evidence, nitpick certain things and then refuse to admit that you are just flat out wrong? You accuse others of making stuff up rather than verifying it for yourself. Now you make a silly assumption like this, and don't even attempt any research?

At least for this season Maroney has carried only 8 times out of shotgun formation. He has a 4.6 YPC from other formations. I haven't checked 06 or 07, but you don't even attempt to check facts and just make absolute statements.

Keep ignoring the facts, and cherry picking your responses.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I stand by my belief that Maroney has been a disappointment and he's one of the worst 1st round picks BB has made since being with the PATS..

I think most everyone can agree with this to some extent. Since BB has yet to make a bad first round pick, it doesn't really say much.

 

[mcsully]

Why do you ignore the many detailed posts with factual evidence, nitpick certain things and then refuse to admit that you are just flat out wrong? You accuse others of making stuff up rather than verifying it for yourself. Now you make a silly assumption like this, and don't even attempt any research?

At least for this season Maroney has carried only 8 times out of shotgun formation. He has a 4.6 YPC from other formations. I haven't checked 06 or 07, but you don't even attempt to check facts and just make absolute statements.

Keep ignoring the facts, and cherry picking your responses.

I can't respond to everyone posts here.. Sorry about that... About to finish up lunch and head back to work...

But the original post was that Maroney has only touched the ball 6 times in shotgun prior to this year.. Not this year, the previous years..

U really should read the entire thread before complaining that I cherry pick..