Stevan Ridley

[Off The Grid]

Why is Carimi a bad fit for the offense?

Nate Solder is going to get Brady killed if he is relied upon to start.

What is that, a joke??

Solder has All World potential, once Dante gets done with him.

Carimi, on the other hand, if we swung him out to Left Tackle, would never even meet Dwight Freeney until the post-game hand shakes.

 

[Off The Grid]

We're all wrong sometimes. Everyone is. But when dumb picks turn out to be.......well.....dumb picks, there is no defense. The Pats drafted Kevin O'Connell in the 3rd round. Why? He was a late round prospect at best. But everyone talked about how the Pats would turn him into a quality pro QB. That never happened. So yes, I'm going to look back on that and question what the team was thinking.

At last, you and I concur.

O'Connell was a SPECTACULAR mistake, at the very moment it was made.

There simply isn't two ways about it.

 

[Shelterdog]

Oh, REALLY???

Seriously.

This also actually shows why "reaching" for a player is a good idea. You might think you're the only one that's sussed out Vollmer as a potential great player but Al Davis-freaking geriatric, insane, decayed form of Mumm-ra Al Davis-also wants your guy.

After you get out of the first round there are so many variables, so little time and, frequently, long gaps between your picks that I'll bet it's almost impossible to try to maximize "value" by waiting to pick players until just before they're supposed to go according to some draft consensus.

 

[Oswlek]

Seriously.

This also actually shows why "reaching" for a player is a good idea. You might think you're the only one that's sussed out Vollmer as a potential great player but Al Davis-freaking geriatric, insane, decayed form of Mumm-ra Al Davis-also wants your guy.

After you get out of the first round there are so many variables, so little time and, frequently, long gaps between your picks that I'll bet it's almost impossible to try to maximize "value" by waiting to pick players until just before they're supposed to go according to some draft consensus.

This is the dirty little secret that "value" buffs seem unwilling or unable to comprehend. Once you are out of the first round, whomever you are picking has about a 50% chance of even being on the roster in 4 years. And much, much less than that of being an impact player. In an ironic twist, it is BB's exemplary drafting that has given some disproportionate expectations.

Who gives a crap about whether a guy went 30 picks earlier than he should have? All that matters is whether he can play.

It seems people don't even comprehend what BB is doing with his manuevering. He doesn't drop from 58 to 72 simply because the guy he wanted wasn't worth the 14 spot premium. He slide back because there are no prospects who jump out as being ahead of the pack.

 

[Off The Grid]

Seriously.

You miss the point.

I was laughing at Bubba's claim that he had personal knowledge of Weird Al's plans.

No more.

No less.

 

[MaineMan]

At last, you and I concur.

O'Connell was a SPECTACULAR mistake, at the very moment it was made.

There simply isn't two ways about it.

OTOH, if you turn to page 117, paragraph 2, section 5 of "MaineMan's Excruciatingly Tedious and Detailed Overanalysis", you'll see that . . . .

Wait a sec.

Nope. You're correct. Major boo-boo from the get-go.

 

[NFLroughdraft]

Two things. First if you have Mankins as a late first and Vollmer as a late second you are really good at this--there's nobody else that I saw that had them rated anywhere close to that high before the draft. Do you have a link from before the draft where you expressed these opinions? The Pats got smacked around a bit by most draftniks for the Mankins and Vollmer picks. Hell, Kiper said that Vollmer might last until the 7th round.

Second, you really don't seem to understand how a market like the draft works. If you think a player is better than the consensus, like the Pats seemd to have thought with Mankins, KOC and Ridley, your options are (a) take the player earlier than the consensus says or (b) wait until closer to when the player is "supposed" to go and risk having another team who also really likes the player swoop in, and you end up getting a guy who you don't like. Unless you know what other teams are going to do you are going to have to overdraft guys who you are particularly fond of every now and then.

The problem with drafting KOC isn't really a problem of drafting tactics, it's a problem of talent evaluation.

Vollmer wasn't mentioned as a possible 2nd rounder because he was so raw. He was easily a 2nd round-caliber player. I don't have a link, but you can go look at The Huddle Report's Top-100 accuracy rankings. I've run my site for the past four years and I've consistently placed in the top 5-10. This year I was 3rd. So, with all due respect, I understand how the draft works. If you want to overdraft Vereen OR Ridley, then you're right. You have to take the guy you like and not worry about where you're taking him. But, there was no reason for both. You had 6 picks in the first 3 rounds and you only filled 3 needs (OT, RB, CB). That isn't good.

 

[NFLroughdraft]

Seriously.

This also actually shows why "reaching" for a player is a good idea. You might think you're the only one that's sussed out Vollmer as a potential great player but Al Davis-freaking geriatric, insane, decayed form of Mumm-ra Al Davis-also wants your guy.

After you get out of the first round there are so many variables, so little time and, frequently, long gaps between your picks that I'll bet it's almost impossible to try to maximize "value" by waiting to pick players until just before they're supposed to go according to some draft consensus.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The Raiders overdraft a guy and Al Davis is out of his mind. The Patriots do it and BB is a genius!

 

[NFLroughdraft]

That seems like a big assumption. At the time of the trade, Seymour had 1 year left on his contract. He very well may have held out, or sandbagged it to avoid getting hurt. We have no idea whether he'd be "dominant" or not. I'd argue that he hadn't been dominant his last year here.

Then you seem to be assuming he'd get franchised, in the same year that Wilfork and Mankins were also becoming UFAs. Seymour probably would've been the third priority of the three to get tagged. Wilfork's extension didn't come until much later.

So, it seems that we could've kept Seymour for one more year and taken a 3rd round comp pick as compensation, or we could've traded Seymour for Oakland's first round pick, which could well have turned out to be a top 5 pick, gained a lot of cap space which was used to re-sign Wilfork long term.

Can anybody really make a cogent argument that trading Seymour cost us the Super Bowl that year?

I have a hard time being convinced that Belichick made the wrong decision on this one....and that's before we see what Solder can do.

Seymour wasn't going to hold out. He got traded a week before the season started!

 

[Oswlek]

Seymour wasn't going to hold out. He got traded a week before the season started!

I caught that too, but it was the only thing in there that doesn't seem spot on.

 

[NFLroughdraft]

The two people who I consider the most knowledgeable about the draft (one had NE picking Solder and Dowling) both agreed (seperately) that Carimi doesn't have the feet to handle speed rushers, nor is he good in open space, which NE OL absolutely must be. The guy who had Solder rated very high went as far as pointing out some footage on NFLN where you could see Carimi tripping over his own feet.

Admittedly, it isn't an NFL scout or anything, but rarely does anyone amount to much if both of them are down on him, and they were both WAY down. No thanks.



No, there is no defense. Except people hold NE accountable as if no other team also has their swings and misses. The defense is when you look at the overall body of work and NE grades out higher than nearly every other team in the league at finding quality players.

I fully expect at least 2 of the guys NE selected to wash out within the next 3 years. But as long as they get two starters and two regular contributors it will be a fine haul.

If you want to talk about feet, go look at Solder against Cal last year. Gabe Carimi was arguably the best OT in college football over the past four seasons and he did it in the Big Ten.

You're absolutely right that every team has their swings and misses. I usually really like what the Pats do. I just didn't like those 2 picks. Like I've said, I'd be fine with either of them separately. But this has been a good debate. Thanks for the spirited discussion.

 

[Oswlek]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The Raiders overdraft a guy and Al Davis is out of his mind. The Patriots do it and BB is a genius!

In fairness, Davis doesn't exactly have "reaches" like Vollmer, Branch and Mankins. Hell, even Ty Warren was a relative reach to most. Once his nobodies start being probowlers (or his team at least finishes over .500) then the tune may change.

(I realize you contend the reach status of two of them, but the analysts certainly seemed surprised at the time).

 

[Oswlek]

If you want to talk about feet, go look at Solder against Cal last year. Gabe Carimi was arguably the best OT in college football over the past four seasons and he did it in the Big Ten.

You're absolutely right that every team has their swings and misses. I usually really like what the Pats do. I just didn't like those 2 picks. Like I've said, I'd be fine with either of them separately. But this has been a good debate. Thanks for the spirited discussion.

I watched that game. Not exactly Solder's finest moment. Frankly, I haven't seen a whole lot out of him to suggest a top 10 talent (that NE seems to think he is) other than his combine measurables.

And FTR, one of the guys I respect is not optimistic about Solder. The other guy is adament NE has another Vollmer on their hands. {shrugs}

But both felt that Carimi was a lousy fit for NE and shouldn't be considered a first round talent.

Either way, it is hard to argue with NE's first rounders, especially in the trenches.

 

[Shelterdog]

Vollmer wasn't mentioned as a possible 2nd rounder because he was so raw. He was easily a 2nd round-caliber player. I don't have a link, but you can go look at The Huddle Report's Top-100 accuracy rankings. I've run my site for the past four years and I've consistently placed in the top 5-10. This year I was 3rd. So, with all due respect, I understand how the draft works. If you want to overdraft Vereen OR Ridley, then you're right. You have to take the guy you like and not worry about where you're taking him. But, there was no reason for both. You had 6 picks in the first 3 rounds and you only filled 3 needs (OT, RB, CB). That isn't good.

1.) What on earth does it mean that Vollmer "wasn't mentioned" as a possible 2nd but "was easily" a 2nd round caliber player? Either people thought he was worth a second before the draft or they didn't. Did you mention him as a possible second before the draft? Where was he in your final 2009 mock draft? If he wasn't top 70, well, you're full of it.

It's very easy to say that the guy was worth a second after he's made the pro bowl; it's a lot harder to predict that beforehand.

2.) Whether filling only three needs with the six picks is good or not depends on the talent pool--maybe there aren't guys that could step in at OLB. And it also depends on how well they used the picks that didn't fill "needs."

3.) I dispute that they only addressed three needs. Mallett, Cannon and Ridley, were all acquired with/through the 6 picks they started the draft with, and each fill a clear need (3d string QB, interior line help in 2012 and forward, 4th string RB). Where those needs rank on the team's list of needs and how well they addressed them with those three players is subject to debate but it's not like they drafted a fifth ILB or a third slot wide receiver.

 

[NFLroughdraft]

In fairness, Davis doesn't exactly have "reaches" like Vollmer, Branch and Mankins. Hell, even Ty Warren was a relative reach to most. Once his nobodies start being probowlers (or his team at least finishes over .500) then the tune may change.

(I realize you contend the reach status of two of them, but the analysts certainly seemed surprised at the time).

Nnamdi Asomugha?

 

[NFLroughdraft]

1.) What on earth does it mean that Vollmer "wasn't mentioned" as a possible 2nd but "was easily" a 2nd round caliber player? Either people thought he was worth a second before the draft or they didn't. Did you mention him as a possible second before the draft? Where was he in your final 2009 mock draft? If he wasn't top 70, well, you're full of it.

It's very easy to say that the guy was worth a second after he's made the pro bowl; it's a lot harder to predict that beforehand.

2.) Whether filling only three needs with the six picks is good or not depends on the talent pool--maybe there aren't guys that could step in at OLB. And it also depends on how well they used the picks that didn't fill "needs."

3.) I dispute that they only addressed three needs. Mallett, Cannon and Ridley, were all acquired with/through the 6 picks they started the draft with, and each fill a clear need (3d string QB, interior line help in 2012 and forward, 4th string RB). Where those needs rank on the team's list of needs and how well they addressed them with those three players is subject to debate but it's not like they drafted a fifth ILB or a third slot wide receiver.

1) He wasn't mentioned in the media as being a top 100 pick. But like I said, that's where I had him. Go check my record over at The Huddle Report.

2) You want to talk about the talent pool? Then you should have drafted Cam Jordan or one of the other defensive ends. The Vereen/Ridley picks certainly weren't the best "values" at their draft spots. How about taking a receiver with one of those picks (Hankerson, Jernigan, Gates, Cobb)?

3) Marcus Cannon is unfortunately an unknown. There is no way you can pencil him in as filling a need right now. Ryan Mallett is a QB. QB is...uh..not a need for New England (3rd string QB?????? C'mon). Brady will still be playing when Mallett's first contract ends.

 

[Shelterdog]

1) He wasn't mentioned in the media as being a top 100 pick. But like I said, that's where I had him. Go check my record over at The Huddle Report.

And where exactly did you have him ranked? It's not a hard question. It's your mock draft, I'd look it up myself but you don't have it on your website, but you should be able to tell us.

If he's 98 or some crap like that, then he was a big, big stretch-yet one that worked out quite well.

It's just really convenient for you to sit there today and say Mankins, Vollmer--totally had them pegged as great.

 

[Oswlek]

Nnamdi Asomugha?

One player does not a trend make, especially when you haven't been over .500 in almost a decade.

 

[NFLroughdraft]

1) He wasn't mentioned in the media as being a top 100 pick. But like I said, that's where I had him. Go check my record over at The Huddle Report.

And where exactly did you have him ranked? It's not a hard question. It's your mock draft, I'd look it up myself but you don't have it on your website, but you should be able to tell us.

If he's 98 or some crap like that, then he was a big, big stretch-yet one that worked out quite well.

It's just really convenient for you to sit there today and say Mankins, Vollmer--totally had them pegged as great.

I don't remember exactly where I had him. He was definitely in the top 3 rounds though. Vollmer was a really good prospect. Everyone knew he had a high ceiling and that he was just inexperienced.

Mankins was before we started the site. I didn't think he'd go in the first round.

I also had Brandon Marshall ahead of Chad Jackson....but again, no website.

Why don't you look at my top 100 from this year? I had Demarcus Van Dyke, Rob Housler, Jaiquawn Jarrett, Jah Reid, and Chris Culliver.

I wouldn't come on here and just lie for no reason. I've been wrong before too, but I'm not too bad at figuring out value.

 

[NFLroughdraft]

One player does not a trend make, especially when you haven't been over .500 in almost a decade.

Ok....Jared Veldheer? He was pretty much the 2010 version of Vollmer.