Sources: Saints' GM could eavesdrop on opposing coaches during home games

[JoeSixPat]

Well at least the ESPN anti-Patriots bias is being exposed today. The ESPN analysts going the extra mile to try to make this story no big deal is hilarious.

Seriously, the whole "Micky Loomis couldn't understand anything the opposing coaches were saying" is laughable. Yes, he might not understand the plays being called, but you gotta think that there are tons of information being discussed that could give a team a competitive edge if they overheard than any layman could understand.

Just off the top of my head, the things Loomis could have overheard that he could have easily understood and relayed to the Saints' staff to gain a competitive edge include:

- Any injuries to key personnel who are still playing, but they want to hide
- If they see players on the other team they think they can expose in certain situations (certain downs, run or pass plays, certain types of routes, etc.)
- Whether or not they will go for it on third and long or fourth downs. or just play it safe and punt the ball away
- On the flip side whether they are expecting the Saints to go for it or not in certain situations
- The strategy of how a team will use their timeouts in crunch time

Right.

We are talking about an allegation (one that thus far seems to have little evidence) that the GM (a front office post that ESPN, with their sports expertise, believes knows very little about the Xs and Os) hearing direct conversations about strategies that they believe would have been impossible for him to pass along to the coaches or players.

In the case of Spygate the allegation is that, rather than filming play calling from the stands like other teams do for post game analysis, the Patriots were filming from the sidelines, in violation of a 1 year old rule change. By ESPNs estimation it was deemed plausible that said filming of cryptic signal calling requiring first confirmation via lip reader, video or telescopic microphone, could be deciphered on the fly, mid game, specifically during half-time, to give Beleichick a strategic advantage during that game.

The scenario of events makes the magic bullet theory look very plausible. Yet ESPN has no problem believing that, but is skeptical the GM could comprehend actual strategy discussions among coaches and players.

If this is true, it's outrageously damning ESPN lost any remaining credibility if they can't see that. Definately a double standard at the very least.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

As a matter of fact yes, I was. Are you trying to say that Spygate is a fabrication by ESPN? Let's just kick the ballistics here, the Pats screwed up and we paid for it, there's no denying we were in the wrong.

No, that liegate, the allegation of taping the Rams pre-Super Bowl practice, was a total fabrication by the Herald and was immediately spouted by BSPN

Covered to such an extent that 4 years later a great many fans and even sportswriters believe these two separate sets of allegations are somehow equal and inseparable. They are not. One (taping hand signals in games=spygate) was a valid accusation and one (taping a pre-Super Bowl practice=liegate) was made up crap.

I do not deny or minimize spygate: They put a guy in uniform, on the field, in games, with a big old camera, and taped opponents making defensive hand signals. They were caught, they admitted it, they apologized, they were heavily fined. It did not however involve taping practices, which I have heard from sports journalists 3 times just today.

We should find out if this new stuff on the Saints is made up or not. It's ESPN, so it can go either way.
__________________

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Right.

We are talking about an allegation (one that thus far seems to have little evidence) that the GM (a front office post that ESPN, with their sports expertise, believes knows very little about the Xs and Os) hearing direct conversations about strategies that they believe would have been impossible for him to pass along to the coaches or players.

In the case of Spygate the allegation is that, rather than filming play calling from the stands like other teams do for post game analysis, the Patriots were filming from the sidelines, in violation of a 1 year old rule change. By ESPNs estimation it was deemed plausible that said filming of cryptic signal calling requiring first confirmation via lip reader, video or telescopic microphone, could be deciphered on the fly, mid game, specifically during half-time, to give Beleichick a strategic advantage during that game.

The scenario of events makes the magic bullet theory look very plausible. Yet ESPN has no problem believing that, but is skeptical the GM could comprehend actual strategy discussions among coaches and players.

If this is true, it's outrageously damning ESPN lost any remaining credibility if they can't see that. Definately a double standard at the very least.

They lost any credibilty they had years ago.

 

[THELAWFIRM226]

No, that liegate, the allegation of taping the Rams pre-Super Bowl practice, was a total fabrication by the Herald and was immediately spouted by BSPN

Covered to such an extent that 4 years later a great many fans and even sportswriters believe these two separate sets of allegations are somehow equal and inseparable. They are not. One (taping hand signals in games=spygate) was a valid accusation and one (taping a pre-Super Bowl practice=liegate) was made up crap.

I do not deny or minimize spygate: They put a guy in uniform, on the field, in games, with a big old camera, and taped opponents making defensive hand signals. They were caught, they admitted it, they apologized, they were heavily fined. It did not however involve taping practices, which I have heard from sports journalists 3 times just today.

We should find out if this new stuff on the Saints is made up or not. It's ESPN, so it can go either way.
__________________

Did I mention the Superbowl against the Rams in my post? Oh yeah, that's what I thought....

 

[BradyFTW!]

As a matter of fact yes, I was. Are you trying to say that Spygate is a fabrication by ESPN? Let's just kick the ballistics here, the Pats screwed up and we paid for it, there's no denying we were in the wrong.

No, I'm saying that they ran with the "Patriots taped the Rams' walkthrough" story despite the fact that they had no evidence at all that that story was true.

What you did mention in your post was that ESPN wouldn't air this story without evidence, but in the case of what I just pointed out, they ran an even more damning story with no evidence at all. So, in short, you're wrong. No need to be an ass to Palm Beach Pats Fan about it.

 

[THELAWFIRM226]

The story released on the eve of the biggest game in the history of football - a chance for a team to go 19-0 for the first time ever - was false and fabricated and the Herald later issued a front page retraction. The other news outlets like ESPN that covered the false story surely didn't give the Herald's Mea Culpa half as much coverage and of course by that point the Super Bowl was over, damage done.

At issue there was the taping of walk thoughs.... That in and of itself is very different from what the Patriots admittedly did, which was locate their signal filming cameras on the sidelines rather than in the stands as the NFL rules still allow to this day.

A great many fans, as well as Marshall Faulk and Kurt Warner, still to this day don't realize that the allegations were fabricated or understand that the NFL actually allows signal filming (though surely even they must wonder why coordinators cover their mouths when calling in plays)

Assuming this report is false, fans everywhere will always still believe it to be true, especially if their team ever lost to the Saints.

With all due respect, you just sound bitter about the 18-1 season, I've seen video that clearly shows we taped teams signals DURING GAMES, forget the walkthrough. Not to mention the NFL destroyed most of the tapes, we can only imagine what those tapes held. While the timing of the release was unfortunate, are you seriously going to blame our Superbowl loss on ESPN? The allegations were not fabricated, the entire world is not conspiring against the Patriots. We broke the rules, and we have paid dearly for it, it's too bad that you just can't let it go. By the way, the "herald" is not the end all be all, regardless of their retraction.

 

[THELAWFIRM226]

No, I'm saying that they ran with the "Patriots taped the Rams' walkthrough" story despite the fact that they had no evidence at all that that story was true.

What you did mention in your post was that ESPN wouldn't air this story without evidence, but in the case of what I just pointed out, they ran an even more damning story with no evidence at all. So, in short, you're wrong. No need to be an ass to Palm Beach Pats Fan about it.

I wasn't being an "ass" I was pointing out a fact. My point is that the NFL would not fine BB $500,000 and dock us draft picks without damning evidence. Just get over it man, we cheated and got caught.

 

[Ring 6]

With all due respect, you just sound bitter about the 18-1 season, I've seen video that clearly shows we taped teams signals DURING GAMES, forget the walkthrough. Not to mention the NFL destroyed most of the tapes, we can only imagine what those tapes held. While the timing of the release was unfortunate, are you seriously going to blame our Superbowl loss on ESPN? The allegations were not fabricated, the entire world is not conspiring against the Patriots. We broke the rules, and we have paid dearly for it, it's too bad that you just can't let it go. By the way, the "herald" is not the end all be all, regardless of their retraction.

There was no walkthrough taped. That has been proven.
What the Patriots were guilty of was filming coaching signals from a different spot than where it is allowed, because Bill Belichick interpretted the ruling to be that it only mattered if the tape was used during that game, which never happened.
You should really get your facts straight.

 

[THELAWFIRM226]

There was no walkthrough taped. That has been proven.
What the Patriots were guilty of was filming coaching signals from a different spot than where it is allowed, because Bill Belichick interpretted the ruling to be that it only mattered if the tape was used during that game, which never happened.
You should really get your facts straight.

LOL come on man, BB "interpreted" the rules the wrong way, that's your argument? BB knew exactly what he was doing and I know deep down you don't seriously that BS. Aside from that, I would like to re-iterate that I never stated that Patriots taped a walkthrough.

 

[Ring 6]

LOL come on man, BB "interpreted" the rules the wrong way, that's your argument? BB knew exactly what he was doing and I know deep down you don't seriously that BS. Aside from that, I would like to re-iterate that I never stated that Patriots taped a walkthrough.

BB clearly pointed to the ruling saying that he read the part 'to be used during the game' to mean taping from an area other than that described was only prohibited if the tape was used during that game.
This rule regarding taping of any kind, not simply signals.
Don't pull that you know deep down crap, because facts are facts, and 'for use during the game' is absolutely part of the memo referenced in penalizing the Patriots.
You seem to have some chip on your shoulder. Why I'm not sure.

 

[Joker]

There was no walkthrough taped. That has been proven.
What the Patriots were guilty of was filming coaching signals from a different spot than where it is allowed, because Bill Belichick interpretted the ruling to be that it only mattered if the tape was used during that game, which never happened.
You should really get your facts straight.

he doesn't really know the complete story here...no use trying to convince someone who thinks the Pats "cheated!!!!" when the true question from the start was the NFL's memo was NOT in accordance with NFL rules and interpretation was indeed a factor. The fact that he doesn't even acknowledge Mangini filming the Patriots at field level with TWO cameras and being asked to remove them by BB , pre-Goodell's hatchet job sanction PROVES he is just another of the "hang 'em high!!!" rabble, intent on cementing the total lies "reported" by ESPN onto the true story.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Did I mention the Superbowl against the Rams in my post? Oh yeah, that's what I thought....

the discussion was about whether ESPN coverage in 2007-2008 was factual. Your post implied that yes it was, since spygate was was real.

I pointed out a very clear example of openly biased an inaccurate coverage that, indeed, you neglected to mention. I thought it was important to bring it up, and still believe (as did ESPN's long-since fired ombudsman) that the network should have apologized for how vigorously they pushed the Herald story.

 

[THELAWFIRM226]

BB clearly pointed to the ruling saying that he read the part 'to be used during the game' to mean taping from an area other than that described was only prohibited if the tape was used during that game.
This rule regarding taping of any kind, not simply signals.
Don't pull that you know deep down crap, because facts are facts, and 'for use during the game' is absolutely part of the memo referenced in penalizing the Patriots.
You seem to have some chip on your shoulder. Why I'm not sure.

You make a valid point, but my question to you is how do you know those tapes weren't used at halftime or relayed to coordinators in the booth? As I stated before, the NFL must have had good reason to penalize us the way they did.

 

[THELAWFIRM226]

he doesn't really know the complete story here...no use trying to convince someone who thinks the Pats "cheated!!!!" when the true question from the start was the NFL's memo was NOT in accordance with NFL rules and interpretation was indeed a factor. The fact that he doesn't even acknowledge Mangini filming the Patriots at field level with TWO cameras and being asked to remove them by BB , pre-Goodell's hatchet job sanction PROVES he is just another of the "hang 'em high!!!" rabble, intent on cementing the total lies "reported" by ESPN onto the true story.

I agree, I do not know every single nuance to this story, but neither do you. The fact that Mangini taped us at field level is irrelevant. Did Mangini get caught doing it? No, but we did, regardless of how we got caught or if BB "asked" him to remove the cameras', at the end of the day, the fact of the matter is that we got caught. I don't work for ESPN by the way, I just don't feel that ESPN conspires against us the way everyone on here thinks they do.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Just get over it man, we cheated and got caught.

We realize the Patriots were GUILTY of spygate. They were caught, they admitted it, they apologized, they were heavily fined, so yes, they cheated.

We need to keep straight exactly what they did do, however, and what they DID NOT DO. The coverage of what they did not do was so intense that otherwise semi-intelligent people like Peter King mix up the facts with the fabrications.

Just get over it man, and insist that people get their facts straight.

 

[Ring 6]

You make a valid point, but my question to you is how do you know those tapes weren't used at halftime or relayed to coordinators in the booth? As I stated before, the NFL must have had good reason to penalize us the way they did.

Did you follow the story at all when it happened?
It was covered in great detail. The film was taken during the game, and reviewed by staff days and weeks later.
You are creating a maybe on an issue that has already been addressed and dealt with.

Saying it must be what you think because we were penalized is incredulous.
The league explained its findings. The league felt that since they issued a memo reiterating the rule, that they were being deliberately ignored. On top of that, the NFL clearly overreacted because of the impliation of impropriety. As soon as it was widely called 'cheating' the NFL acted to protect its reputation, and clearly the penalty far exceeded the offense. That is pretty obvious.

 

[Joker]

You make a valid point, but my question to you is how do you know those tapes weren't used at halftime or relayed to coordinators in the booth? As I stated before, the NFL must have had good reason to penalize us the way they did.

really??..and why "must" they?...you'd think, using YOUR logic, that the NFL would severely penalize a team for displaying OPEN DEGENERACY,PROFANITY,BLATANT NATIONALLY TELEVISED TRIPPING OF OPPONENTS BY ORGANIZED SIDELINE TRIP SQUADS and other assorted deviant, degenerate, dangerous and disgusting acts. The fact is, Goodell has dealt with the embarrassment that is the New York Jets with what amounts to a mommy scolding her one year old.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

the fact of the matter is that we got caught. I don't work for ESPN by the way, I just don't feel that ESPN conspires against us the way everyone on here thinks they do.

I have never heard anyone suggest of any such conspiracy ever existed.

It's a huge leap from wishing ESPN had more journalistic integrity on a consistent basis to thinking they have some charter calling to demonize the Patriots. They don't. They are just sloppy, lazy, and push the sensational story. It's as if TMZ ran a sports network.

 

[THELAWFIRM226]

really??..and why "must" they?...you'd think, using YOUR logic, that the NFL would severely penalize a team for displaying OPEN DEGENERACY,PROFANITY,BLATANT NATIONALLY TELEVISED TRIPPING OF OPPONENTS BY ORGANIZED SIDELINE TRIP SQUADS and other assorted deviant, degenerate, dangerous and disgusting acts. The fact is, Goodell has dealt with the embarrassment that is the New York Jets with what amounts to a mommy scolding her one year old.

Check the ratings for Patriot games in the pats decade, the Patriots are the NFL's bread and butter. Regardless of how much people hate us, people watch us. Why would the NFL intentionally undermine their golden boys. Your argument consists of a lot of "big" words, but it really doesn't hold water. The Jets are a joke, but talking **** is not an offense punishable by the NFL

 

[Joker]

I agree, I do not know every single nuance to this story, but neither do you. The fact that Mangini taped us at field level is irrelevant. Did Mangini get caught doing it? No, but we did, regardless of how we got caught or if BB "asked" him to remove the cameras', at the end of the day, the fact of the matter is that we got caught. I don't work for ESPN by the way, I just don't feel that ESPN conspires against us the way everyone on here thinks they do.

jeezus krist you're one obtuse SOB...here. YOU read the damned report and then tell me Mangini did NOT get caught...krist...PUBLIC NEWS....HELLO???????????????????????

Jets Taped Patriots in 2006

then read Goodell practically admit he fined the Pats for PR purposes..

NFL Commissioner strikes the right tone - msnbc tv - MSNBC TV Commentary - msnbc.com

NFL: Dolphins did no wrong vs. Patriots - NFL - ESPN