Should Belichick Retain Personnel Duties?

[Real fan 02]

I think people are missing the problem. The defense is good(despite missing its 2 best players).

What should happen is for him to have no say in the offense

A man who's had so much power, autonomy and final say on roster decisions. He won't remain here without what he's had for 23 seasons. Successful coaches like players have egos as well. Bill is a very intelligent man. He knows what the NFL is today cannot win without talent at the QB position. Whether he chooses to accept it is a whole different story. By the looks of his roster he hasn't IMO.

 

[State]

Belichick has always prioritized positions by how much they are involved in each snap, especially on offense, so the closer to the ball they are the more important they are.

Is that why he took third-rounder Cole Strange in the first?

 

[Real fan 02]

Is that why he took third-rounder Cole Strange in the first?

That us pretty high.. more like 5th round

 

[venecol]

Belichick will agree to lose GM responsibilities. He knows he’s fallen face first.

No he wont. That would be a major demotion. Probably a cut in pay as well. It'll create problems or worse, nothing much will change:

1. Agrees to work w/ another GM. But he has input on the GM. Which means someone in his circle that he can influence. Nothing changes.

2. A GM is hired from outside Bill's circle. Bill proceeds to make his life miserable in a power clash.

Option #2 isn't a real option. Those voting 2 are riding the fence. Either he stays w/ full control or he goes. Organizations don't half-ass decisions on poor performing employees. Most would rather pay the employee to cut him early to avoid disruptions in the office. It's more likely he stays as a consultant in the FO w/ no veto power than as the HC w/ no FO decision making power.

 

[archstanton543]

Is that why he took third-rounder Cole Strange in the first?

Yes. It's because of the prioritization he took him that high.

 

[BTTA]

I voted to retain him for both just because that's such a ridiculous proposition at this point that I couldn't believe it was being offered as an option.

 

[Real fan 02]

No he wont. That would be a major demotion. Probably a cut in pay as well. It'll create problems or worse, nothing much will change:

1. Agrees to work w/ another GM. But he has input on the GM. Which means someone in his circle that he can influence. Nothing changes.

2. A GM is hired from outside Bill's circle. Bill proceeds to make his life miserable in a power clash.

Option #2 isn't a real option. Those voting 2 are riding the fence. Either he stays w/ full control or he goes. Organizations don't half-ass decisions on poor performing employees. Most would rather pay the employee to cut him early to avoid disruptions in the office. It's more likely he stays as a consultant in the FO w/ no veto power than as the HC w/ no FO decision making power.

What Bill has been given HC/GM is why owners don't allow HCs only but so much power. Of course all HCs have say on the roster... but you need the " voice or voices of reason " in organizations. Bill was able to be a chemist with the roster for the most part in particular the last few seasons. Having stability at the QB position allowed him to do so. With brady a down season was 12-4. No one currently in the organization on his staff is going to challenge his decisions. When you give friends and family members jobs that's what happens.

 

[Ivan]

It's a mix of a lot of things.

1. The Patriots were really good at working the cap in the early years, but teams have just gotten better at manipulating it and pushing money around to the point where teams are being rewarded for getting stars on contracts that seem ****ty but can rely on the increase in cap and ways to spread it out. So the old way of looking for value deal gems isn't as relevant. We balk too much at bigger contracts because we've been conditioned to and then someone else takes it on, gets mocked for it, then thrives, then when it doesn't really do the damage everyone expected, people already forgot about it.

2. Bill's evaluations kinda follow suit with that mentality. He wants guys he views as hard workers that fill a specific niche. But the league has nerfed practices and has nerfed defenses, so the end game is now to just find the most conventionally athletic and talented players. Which isn't what Bill's system or mentality looks for.

3. In a league with explosive offenses, the strong defense and ground and pound offense just isn't effective. There's too many disadvantages and it takes a good athlete burning the defense once or twice a game to undo that. You aren't going to see early 2000's Patriots teams anymore. Hell even 2018 kinda showed how the league was changing. Our defense held the Chiefs down in two seperate games, but you can only do that so long until the talent at skill positions can't be denied and we won, but we held on for dare life and had to ask Brady to win a shoot out at the end.

Right on the money, on every count. Unfortunately Belichick hasn’t adapted on offense, which is kind of strange as he has adapted defensively, as their base defense is now basically nickel and dime packages, with strong safeties playing linebacker roles.

 

[Ivan]

I voted to retain him for both just because that's such a ridiculous proposition at this point that I couldn't believe it was being offered as an option.

If it’s a poll you need to provide each option. There are still a few who think he should retain GM duties, but even most of his staunchest supporters, myself included, feel that it’s time to move on to the next chapter. I still think he’s a good coach, but I don’t want him making personnel decisions anymore. And I’m even fine with a clean break to a new set of coach’s and systems.

 

[Real fan 02]

Right on the money, on every count. Unfortunately Belichick hasn’t adapted on offense, which is kind of strange as he has adapted defensively, as their base defense is now basically nickel and dime packages, with strong safeties playing linebacker roles.

Agreed. If you look at the state of the roster it's built like an early 2000s NFL roster, where teams relied on defense and running the ball. The QB was a game manager. In 2023 NFL if you don't have the QB, you don't win!

 

[Ivan]

Is that why he took third-rounder Cole Strange in the first?

I have never figured that out. Belichick was reported to believe he could get his guards in the mid rounds in Holleys book, but I think that many coaches have become more concerned about immediate pressure up the middle, and that might have been his reasoning, but he have always been puzzled by that pick in the first. He’s a great athlete, and I think he’s a good player, but I literally said WTF when he made that pick.

 

[tom444]

........................ Belichick has always prioritized positions ......................................................... the closer to the ball they are the more important they are. ...................

Everybody does that. QB, center, middle linebacker, etc.

 

[bruinator]

hell no.

 

[bruinator]

was successful coz OF TB 12 ONLY

 

[Ivan]

was successful coz OF TB 12 ONLY

Same reason Auerbach sucked, only won with great players he picked. Oh, that and cheating. Auerbach even told everyone what a massive cheater he was. It’s tarnished the Celtics forever.

 

[RIpats88]

Wonder if Bill will save his job by winning a couple meaningless games. It might screw us in being able to get a top QB prospect.

But if performances improve and we go 4-13 he may go to Kraft and be able to sell it all being on Mac jones. and sell Kraft on trading Mac for draft capital, taking a top WR in the draft and all offensive players and competing next year.

Not saying it will happen but last night's win opens up the possibility.

Now maybe we crap ourselves again next week and zappe turns into a pumpkin and it's all for naught

 

[Nunchucks]

The entire scouting and personnel office needs to be broken down and rebuilt

 

[Ivan]

The entire scouting and personnel office needs to be broken down and rebuilt

I think they need to give Groh and Wolf, or one of them a chance to run the team to find out if they are right for the job. Unless you have someone specific, that’s actually available, to completely recreate football operations in a new model cleaning out everyone could ultimately end being a worse situation. And as good as their defense is making Mayo the head coach, but bringing in a young creative mind to run the offense ,to go with a high 1st round QB, could get them back into contention sooner than later.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Misleading stat. Since 2011 these first round QB's have won a SB

-Eli Manning (11)
-Joe Flacco (12)
-Peyton Manning (15)
-Patrick Mahomes x2 (19 and 22)
-Matt Stafford. (21)

So that's 6 first round QB's doing it. Brady winning 4 in that time frame, Wilson winning 1, and Wentz (who is a first rounder) going down so Foles could do it is what really throws that off. Since 2018 Mahomes, Brady, Stafford, Mahomes, 3 of 4 have been first rounders.

Then when you talk about making the Super Bowl you can add


-Peyton Manning again (13)
-Cam Newton (15)
-Matt Ryan (16)
-Jared Goff (18)
- Patrick Mahomes again (20)
-Joe Burrow (21)

Only the 2013, 2014, and 2017 (because Wentz was injured) Super Bowls since 2011 didn't have a first rounder as one pf the participants.

So the breakdown of Super Bowl winners since 2011 goes

1st round: 6
2nd round: 0
3rd round 2 (Wilson, Foles)
4th round 0
5th round 0
6th round 4
7th round 0

So even with a crazy outlier called Tom Brady, the 1st round still produced the most Super Bowl winners at QB in the time frame.

When you go by participants it is more eye opening because out of a possible 24 it goes

1st round 12
2nd round 3 (Kaepernick, Jimmy G, Hurts)
3rd round 2
4th round 0
5th round 0
6th round 5
7th round 0

Conclusion: the first round is still far and away the best round to get a QB if your aspirations are to win a Super Bowl if you can't draft Tom Brady.

I think he meant starting in 2011 the QB's drafted from 2011 on only Mahomes has won the Super Bowl, so of the last 12 drafts, only 1 has won, I haven't checked it out but I think that's what he meant.

 

[lancerman]

I think he meant starting in 2011 the QB's drafted from 2011 on only Mahomes has won the Super Bowl, so of the last 12 drafts, only 1 has won, I haven't checked it out but I think that's what he meant.

I know. And my point is that it's a misleading stat because you have to then ignore how much higher the rate of 1st round QB's are at winning and appearing in a Super Bowl than QB's drafted in any other round in the draft. No matter how you do the math, the first round is still far and away the best round to draft a QB