Should Belichick Retain Personnel Duties?

[Calhoun44]

You can't look at 3 games against subpar opponents to declare the defense great and say "oh these other guys will come back" and then ignore that when they played quality offenses, they got lit up even when healthy. We are slated to lose defensive players next years. We can't assume this 3 game stretch is indicative of longterm success.

Gonzalez is good. The defense still got lit up with him on it when they played good teams. How can you say that won't happen next year? Especially when we will likely be losing strong contributors on defense next year.

I think the defense has a chance to be great if you add Judon, Jones and Gonzalez and if the offense scores some points to put pressure on the other team and make them predictable.

The Giants have a crappy offense, but the Chargers have scored exactly the same number of points as the Chiefs (275), and the Colts have scored 300 points. Yes, context matters, but the Colts and Chargers are not terrible offenses. I'm just saying that if you take away 3 top defensive players from any team, you might expect to see more of a drop off. If they were not injured, I think the defense would be dominating even more than they have been.

 

[lancerman]

Here's a good article about drafting a QB in the first round - The NFL draft is coming. If your team drafts a 'franchise' quarterback in the first round, brace for failure

Maholmes is the only QB taken in the first round to have taken his team to the SB since 2011.

As far as this thread, if Belichick stays, he needs to hire a proven OL coach, a proven WR coach. Scar retiring has been devastating. Troy Brown isn't getting the job done.

Misleading stat. Since 2011 these first round QB's have won a SB

-Eli Manning (11)
-Joe Flacco (12)
-Peyton Manning (15)
-Patrick Mahomes x2 (19 and 22)
-Matt Stafford. (21)

So that's 6 first round QB's doing it. Brady winning 4 in that time frame, Wilson winning 1, and Wentz (who is a first rounder) going down so Foles could do it is what really throws that off. Since 2018 Mahomes, Brady, Stafford, Mahomes, 3 of 4 have been first rounders.

Then when you talk about making the Super Bowl you can add


-Peyton Manning again (13)
-Cam Newton (15)
-Matt Ryan (16)
-Jared Goff (18)
- Patrick Mahomes again (20)
-Joe Burrow (21)

Only the 2013, 2014, and 2017 (because Wentz was injured) Super Bowls since 2011 didn't have a first rounder as one pf the participants.

So the breakdown of Super Bowl winners since 2011 goes

1st round: 6
2nd round: 0
3rd round 2 (Wilson, Foles)
4th round 0
5th round 0
6th round 4
7th round 0

So even with a crazy outlier called Tom Brady, the 1st round still produced the most Super Bowl winners at QB in the time frame.

When you go by participants it is more eye opening because out of a possible 24 it goes

1st round 12
2nd round 3 (Kaepernick, Jimmy G, Hurts)
3rd round 2
4th round 0
5th round 0
6th round 5
7th round 0

Conclusion: the first round is still far and away the best round to get a QB if your aspirations are to win a Super Bowl if you can't draft Tom Brady.

 

[Ivan]

Right now, if the line is not fixed, any rookie QB can NOT develop. Without at least two reliable receiving options, any rookie QB can not develop.

In short, if we draft a QB, and we're not addressing those positions, that drafted QB needs to sit until the OL and WR issues are solved. Let some other sucker get their ass kicked.

Which is why you sign a veteran and let the rookie sit a season while you get more help at OL and WR.

 

[Ivan]

Misleading stat. Since 2011 these first round QB's have won a SB

-Eli Manning (11)
-Joe Flacco (12)
-Peyton Manning (15)
-Patrick Mahomes x2 (19 and 22)
-Matt Stafford. (21)

So that's 6 first round QB's doing it. Brady winning 4 in that time frame, Wilson winning 1, and Wentz (who is a first rounder) going down so Foles could do it is what really throws that off. Since 2018 Mahomes, Brady, Stafford, Mahomes, 3 of 4 have been first rounders.

Then when you talk about making the Super Bowl you can add


-Peyton Manning again (13)
-Cam Newton (15)
-Matt Ryan (16)
-Jared Goff (18)
- Patrick Mahomes again (20)
-Joe Burrow (21)

Only the 2013, 2014, and 2017 (because Wentz was injured) Super Bowls since 2011 didn't have a first rounder as one pf the participants.

So the breakdown of Super Bowl winners since 2011 goes

1st round: 6
2nd round: 0
3rd round 2 (Wilson, Foles)
4th round 0
5th round 0
6th round 4
7th round 0

So even with a crazy outlier called Tom Brady, the 1st round still produced the most Super Bowl winners at QB in the time frame.

When you go by participants it is more eye opening because out of a possible 24 it goes

1st round 12
2nd round 3 (Kaepernick, Jimmy G, Hurts)
3rd round 2
4th round 0
5th round 0
6th round 5
7th round 0

Conclusion: the first round is still far and away the best round to get a QB if your aspirations are to win a Super Bowl if you can't draft Tom Brady.

Nicely done. The idea that you don’t take a QB with your high first round pick only makes sense if it’s a bad QB class, which isn’t the case this year.

 

[slash83]

I’m rolling with Bill

 

[Ivan]

Misleading stat. Since 2011 these first round QB's have won a SB

-Eli Manning (11)
-Joe Flacco (12)
-Peyton Manning (15)
-Patrick Mahomes x2 (19 and 22)
-Matt Stafford. (21)

So that's 6 first round QB's doing it. Brady winning 4 in that time frame, Wilson winning 1, and Wentz (who is a first rounder) going down so Foles could do it is what really throws that off. Since 2018 Mahomes, Brady, Stafford, Mahomes, 3 of 4 have been first rounders.

Then when you talk about making the Super Bowl you can add


-Peyton Manning again (13)
-Cam Newton (15)
-Matt Ryan (16)
-Jared Goff (18)
- Patrick Mahomes again (20)
-Joe Burrow (21)

Only the 2013, 2014, and 2017 (because Wentz was injured) Super Bowls since 2011 didn't have a first rounder as one pf the participants.

So the breakdown of Super Bowl winners since 2011 goes

1st round: 6
2nd round: 0
3rd round 2 (Wilson, Foles)
4th round 0
5th round 0
6th round 4
7th round 0

So even with a crazy outlier called Tom Brady, the 1st round still produced the most Super Bowl winners at QB in the time frame.

When you go by participants it is more eye opening because out of a possible 24 it goes

1st round 12
2nd round 3 (Kaepernick, Jimmy G, Hurts)
3rd round 2
4th round 0
5th round 0
6th round 5
7th round 0

Conclusion: the first round is still far and away the best round to get a QB if your aspirations are to win a Super Bowl if you can't draft Tom Brady.

But, but, but Mac Jones……..

 

[Ivan]

I’m rolling with Bill

So you really believe Belichick is the right person to spend their free agency $$$$, and run their next draft?

 

[Triumph]

I never do. Unlike you, however, I’m not a troll. You spent the last 20 years trashing Belichick, then became one of just a handful of people who claim they want him to remain as GM and coach. Proving, yet again, that your sole purpose here is to be as much of an ******* as possible. A quality you are uniquely gifted with.

This is how stupid you are Igor.

Calling me out for bring attention to BBs bad drafting in a thread that you created calling for BB to be removed of GM duties.

It dont get no more dumb than that. Bravo Igor.

 

[Triumph]

Yup, that's a fine absolute. How well did that strategy work in the Mac Jones draft year?

Who were the QBs to get?

That 2020 QB draft is a dumpster fire. You can only draft who is available.

 

[Triumph]

You are acting as if the receiving talent on this team is anywhere close to Edelman/Gronk.

NE WRs and TEs are open, but dont see the ball.

The Corky Mac INT that got him benched in the Giants game had a NE receiver wide open for a TD, but Corky hit the Giants player on the numbers.

that is as much of the problem as the QB is. just changing the QB ALONE and giving them Parker/Juju to throw too isn't going to yield much better results.

we need a new QB, an elite WR, a 3rd down RB and new OL

A competent QB makes everything better.

The guy needs to be smart and a quick thinker who can read NFL defenses. Not a one read Clown throwing check downs all day. Nobody respects or fears Mac Corky Jones. The Pats own players do not. "We ass right now" is referring to 1 NE player dragging the entire franchise down.

 

[Ivan]

This is how stupid you are Igor.

Calling me out for bring attention to BBs bad drafting in a thread that you created calling for BB to be removed of GM duties.

It dont get no more dumb than that. Bravo Igor.

Proving your stupidity yet again. This is a poll, not a thread calling for Belichick to be removed. I think he should be removed from GM duties, and I voted for him to be relieved of GM duties, but remain as Coach. Most here want him fired, some want him to stay as Coach, but the vast majority want him fired. A poll is neutral, and people can vote any way they want on it, a thread calling for him to be fired is an opinion, not a poll.

And I’m calling you out as a troll because you are one. You have been ****ting all over Belichick for over 20 years, yet when a poll is set up to see where people stand on it you vote that he should not only stay as coach, but as GM as well. So you are either trolling this forum, or Belichick has done something to cause you to completely reverse the opinion of him that you have been hammering here for decades. My guess is that you didn’t realize the poll was public, and voted for Belichick to keep all duties simply to make it look like there was more support for that position than there actually is, but since the poll is public you now have to either admit you were trolling, or stand by your vote. Either is fine with me, I just don’t believe that you want Belichick to remain as GM and coach.

 

[RIpats88]

NE WRs and TEs are open, but dont see the ball.

The Corky Mac INT that got him benched in the Giants game had a NE receiver wide open for a TD, but Corky hit the Giants player on the numbers.

A competent QB makes everything better.

The guy needs to be smart and a quick thinker who can read NFL defenses. Not a one read Clown throwing check downs all day. Nobody respects or fears Mac Corky Jones. The Pats own players do not. "We ass right now" is referring to 1 NE player dragging the entire franchise down.

A competent QB making everything better. That is true. Although it also doesn't = the WR core is fine. Brady brought the 2019 patriots to the playoffs with a WR core as bad as this or worse. No one would say what he had was "good enough". If Bill drafted AJ brown over Harry as the scouts wanted who knows maybe Brady's 7th is in New England

There's 2 separate discussions here. A new QB is a must. But that doesn't mean the roster doesn't need a MAJOR overhaul.

All it means is we are not 2-10 bad. But it's still not good enough. The Bengals got Burrow Chase, the eagles got hurts AJ brown, the dolphins got Tua hill/waddle...

We should not hope that our top QB prospect drafted gets Parker/juju. Not saying they are bad players. But they are complementary pieces

I'm honestly not sure why there even needs to be a discussion of how someone like an AJ brown is more valuable and important someone like parker. Anyone who watches the NFL should understand that fact

 

[Triumph]

Proving your stupidity yet again. This is a poll, not a thread calling for Belichick to be removed. I think he should be removed from GM duties, and I voted for him to be relieved of GM duties, but remain as Coach. Most here want him fired, some want him to stay as Coach, but the vast majority want him fired. A poll is neutral, and people can vote any way they want on it, a thread calling for him to be fired is an opinion, not a poll.

And I’m calling you out as a troll because you are one. You have been ****ting all over Belichick for over 20 years, yet when a poll is set up to see where people stand on it you vote that he should not only stay as coach, but as GM as well. So you are either trolling this forum, or Belichick has done something to cause you to completely reverse the opinion of him that you have been hammering here for decades. My guess is that you didn’t realize the poll was public, and voted for Belichick to keep all duties simply to make it look like there was more support for that position than there actually is, but since the poll is public you now have to either admit you were trolling, or stand by your vote. Either is fine with me, I just don’t believe that you want Belichick to remain as GM and coach.

Only an idiot would call someone out for being critical of BBs drafting in a thread that he (the idiot) created questioning whether BB should remain as GM.

Get it? No.

 

[Ivan]

A competent QB making everything better. That is true. Although it also doesn't = the WR core is fine. Brady brought the 2019 patriots to the playoffs with a WR core as bad as this or worse. No one would say what he had was "good enough". If Bill drafted AJ brown over Harry as the scouts wanted who knows maybe Brady's 7th is in New England

There's 2 separate discussions here. A new QB is a must. But that doesn't mean the roster doesn't need a MAJOR overhaul.

All it means is we are not 2-10 bad. But it's still not good enough. The Bengals got Burrow Chase, the eagles got hurts AJ brown, the dolphins got Tua hill/waddle...

We should not hope that our top QB prospect drafted gets Parker/juju. Not saying they are bad players. But they are complementary pieces

I'm honestly not sure why there even needs to be a discussion of how someone like an AJ brown is more valuable and important someone like parker.

This has been one of Belichick’s failings in his overall football philosophy. Belichick has always prioritized positions by how much they are involved in each snap, especially on offense, so the closer to the ball they are the more important they are. Months is why he sees WR’s as “ well they touch the ball 6-8 times a game, at the most,” so a RB or OL, who are more involved on every snap are more important. That makes sense, to some degree, but football has changed dramatically, and although WR’s don’t touch the ball as often their impact can go well beyond a touch count. The Patriots are going to need to get playmakers at WR to help their next QB be successful.

 

[Ivan]

Only an idiot would call someone out for being critical of BBs drafting in a thread that he (the idiot) created questioning whether BB should remain as GM.

Get it? No.

It’s a poll moron.And I called you out for voting to keep Belichick as GM when you have been saying the opposite for decades. You are beyond stupid. Now, go upstairs and get whomever takes care of you to read and explain this to you.

 

[Triumph]

A competent QB making everything better. That is true. Although it also doesn't = the WR core is fine. Brady brought the 2019 patriots to the playoffs with a WR core as bad as this or worse. No one would say what he had was "good enough". If Bill drafted AJ brown over Harry as the scouts wanted who knows maybe Brady's 7th is in New England

How does Hopkins being in NE running routes and not getting the ball help the Pats win?

Wouldnt the other defense clamp down on Hopkins and double him?

There's 2 separate discussions here. A new QB is a must. But that doesn't mean the roster doesn't need a MAJOR overhaul.

I dont see it that way because a component QB makes the OL and WRs better.

All it means is we are not 2-10 bad. But it's still not good enough. The Bengals got Burrow Chase, the eagles got hurts AJ brown, the dolphins got Tua hill/waddle...

We should not hope that our top QB prospect drafted gets Parker/juju. Not saying they are bad players. But they are complementary pieces

I'm honestly not sure why there even needs to be a discussion of how someone like an AJ brown is more valuable and important someone like parker. Anyone who watches the NFL should understand that fact

The Pats have 2 very good TEs, 2 good RBs, at least 2 good WRs.

The pieces are there to win now.

 

[Triumph]

It’s a poll moron.And I called you out for voting to keep Belichick as GM when you have been saying the opposite for decades. You are beyond stupid. Now, go upstairs and get whomever takes care of you to read and explain this to you.

A poll created by an idiot complaining about people critical of BBs drafting.

BB should stay and you should visit a mental hospital today.

 

[RIpats88]

This has been one of Belichick’s failings in his overall football philosophy. Belichick has always prioritized positions by how much they are involved in each snap, especially on offense, so the closer to the ball they are the more important they are. Months is why he sees WR’s as “ well they touch the ball 6-8 times a game, at the most,” so a RB or OL, who are more involved on every snap are more important. That makes sense, to some degree, but football has changed dramatically, and although WR’s don’t touch the ball as often their impact can go well beyond a touch count. The Patriots are going to need to get playmakers at WR to help their next QB be successful.

I just don't see how some posters can supposedly watch the Patriots for years with moss/welker and Gronk/Edelman and watch other teams like the Dolphins, eagles, 48ers, Bengals....

And then make the argument our WR core is just fine and an elite WR is not needed. As if they don't watch any NFL games or understand how somehow who needs to be game planned for can effect other players. Bill legit gave up the middle of the field and changed his defense to stop Tyreek Hill against Miami.

It's like when I hear people say "juju was #1 receiver on the chiefs!" But when you have Kelce being doubled with a safety and their #1 CB. Now juju is going against their #2 or #3 CB instead of a #1 here.

The reason Chris hogan was open so much was because Gronk/Edelman took coverage away.

It's simple NFL common sense I see a lot of posters just completely ignore.

Teams are not game planning for Parker/juju/Bourne.

 

[RIpats88]

How does Hopkins being in NE running routes and not getting the ball help the Pats win?

Wouldnt the other defense clamp down on Hopkins and double him?

I dont see it that way because a component QB makes the OL and WRs better.


The Pats have 2 very good TEs, 2 good RBs, at least 2 good WRs.

The pieces are there to win now.

I think we are having 2 separate discussions here. No one has mentioned Mac Jones at all.

it's a simple discussion that the New England receiver core is not good enough and needs major improvement.

sure we have the pieces to win now. But win what? 6-7 games and be middle of the pack? Maybe fight for a wildcard spot?

IF you think they are pieces to win a playoff game or a Superbowl well I want what you are smoking.

Why isn't zappe winning with this same roster?

 

[State]

Belichick will agree to lose GM responsibilities. He knows he’s fallen face first.

His two sons now have an impeccable coaching resume. They can swim on their own.

His daughter is also a successful head coach at a great situation at the College of the Holy Cross.

He visits her regularly in the off season. My son works there. He was teaching a co-worker from Manhattan to parallel park and she almost hit his jeep suv with him scowling over the proceedings.

What keeps him going now is the history book. To beat Shula.

Reading people on the Fire Belichick bandwagon were some of the same people who reflexively defended his crap drafts.

People need to look in the mirror.