Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatsFans.com Article, Sep 12, 2009.
Just how many of us are as accountable in life as Belichick is?
I think the Patriots defense is going to be weak. Hopefully it gets better by playoff time and the offense has scored enough to get the Patriots in.......I know people will get pissed and say I am a troll but that is how i feel...
Do you know what BB is doing with the D this year? I mean it's becoming easier to see? If so, HOW can you say this defense will be weaker. Please articulate why.
It's easy to say "The D will be weaker", but unless you can articulate why, it doesn't have much teeth.
The Patriots defense has been weak for the past 4 years. I don't think anyone will troll you for saying in now.
Maybe that is why he turned it over...:ugh:
I love the comments about missing Pioli. The only bigger financial/accountability hardass in the FO than Belichick...
Yes I understand what BB is trying to do. I think he will get it where he wants it soon. Is that game one of the season? No.
I have questions about the defense.
Where is the pressure on the qb coming from? will the pass defense get better? Third down defense? Inside the redzone. Did losing Seymour hurt the run defense? You can not tell me losing Seymour made this defense better.
They got younger and faster but are they better yet? I guess we will find out.
Sorry, but I think this article especially its title is pretty dumb. BB has been accountable for a long time now. This trade does not change a thing when it comes to that.
The entire front line. In the 4-2-Nickel BB was using Burgess and TBC on the edge. Inside he rotated Warren/Wilfork with Green/Seymour. Wright or Pryor replace Seymour now that he's been traded. Pryor is unproven, but he sure demonstrated some explosion in preseason and got a lot of pressure on the QB. There's some pocket collapsing power there.
Another element of this Nickel package is Mayo's offseason development and his improved understanding of the defense. He demonstrated a new potential as a blitzer, his partner Adalius Thomas can do the same thing. Let's not forget Guyton contributed to at least two sacks last season pressuring the QB into another rusher as a blitzer from LB, he also recovered a fumble in mid-air, the kid can make some plays as a rusher. Finally we have Meriweather who had two sacks last season, Sanders who was a decent blitzer in college but hasn't been used that way as much with Rodney ahead of him in the blitzing line-up, and Pat Chung who can come in as a Nickel Safety and put on a good blitz too.
Where is the pressure coming from? All over, especially if the CBs can step up to the plate.
Meriweather and Sanders are a year smarter and were working together very well toward the end of last season - improved. Wilhite was starting toward the end of last season, he's done nothing to indicate a decline in preseason - improved over O'Neal and about the same from the end of 2008. Butler is the Nickelback, last season Wilhite was, it looks like an improvement on paper and from preseason. Bodden is the mystery, he looked pretty good in preseason, but until I see him play against Buffalo I can't say he's an upgrade over Hobbs, but I don't think he's a downgrade - we'll see.
Linebackers also factor into this. Mayo was getting better in coverage late in the season, I think he'll continue to improve as the season rolls on. Thomas is pretty good, having him available in Vrabel's old coverage role works for the Pats. Guyton got written up by Reiss for his coverage against Leon Washington in the loss to the Jesters last season, he shut Leon down - that's damned impressive. Woods and TBC have done a decent job when they've been called on in coverage. I've seen Burgess cover the RB into the flat and do a good job, so NE can switch things up a bit and still be effective.
I think the Linebackers will be the key, Mayo is no longer a rookie, neither is Guyton, that is going to make a huge difference, especially as the season works to get them smarter. The other area that will make a difference is the Safeties. Meriweather appeared to make some key mistakes last season as he took over for Rodney, I think those days are past, he's fully seasoned now. Bodden is a veteran, a larger CB more capable of being physical in a phone booth than Hobbs - I think he'll be at least a slight improvement over Hobbs in that regard. Finally, Springs is a veteran who will make a difference in short field situations - he's seen it all before and if healthy (the big if) he'll be able to diagnose plays and disrupt things before they occur.
The things I talked about for Third down apply here too. There is one upgrade in the goal-line package to note - Eric Alexander replaces Larry Izzo. Folks may not have noticed before, but Izzo was a goal-line regular, Alexander is bigger, stronger, better able to take on blockers, and I think an upgrade.
Hurt it? Not so much. Better? Not right away, but let's see how the youngsters develop as they get more experience playing in the time slots Sey would have filled. Change the way Dean Pees does business a bit, yes, that will occur. I think in the short term there will be growing pains as Pees works out who needs to do what to replace everything Sey brought to the table, but I think the overall talent on the DL is up to the task. And you can't argue that big Ron Brace doesn't create an imposing presence inside against the run.
Yet? Perhaps not, but Buffalo is a good tune-up.
If there is anything that has me concerned it's the CB depth chart. Once you get past the apparent starters, Bodden and Wilhite, and Butler as Nickelback, there are questions about Springs (health, age) and Wheatley (slow starter last year and more of the same this year). Chung's ability to help in coverage inside helps, as does Guyton and Mayo's development in the passing game.
I'm giving Wheatley the same benefit of the doubt I've learned to give Ben Watson - Watson, for whatever reason, always seemed to struggle as a blocker at the start of the season, but he got better as the season went on. Wheatley developed that way last season, to the point where he was even inactive for one game, but he was looking reasonable by midseason when he took over O'Neal's slot.
We may also see Mike Richardson back in NE colors later in the season if his hand heals enough and there is an opening after an injury, he's not that bad a CB.
I don't know if trolls can digest that much salient analysis, Box.
I've noticed a few regulars who seem to struggle with it too. :confused2:
How they hanging Hippo trainer?
True enough; hyperbole in titles is not uncommon though.
I didn't particularly care for the line that "Scott Pioli is not around anymore to stand up to Belichick when it comes to personnel moves". What? It's very well documented that BB and Pioli worked together as a team. This article intimates exactly the opposite for absolutely no reason.
Denfensively the team's full of youngsters and new players, it better improve as season goes on. The main concerned will be on passing D. Box's scenario (pressure) seems little more optimistic but may work out IF the right pieces fall into places.
We will make some defensive adjustments (I hope); the passing D was too passive last couple of years. I like us taking chances blitzing more often. (plus we will be playing with a lead more of time.)
The Box analysis is right on, there are some who really believe that BB is deliberately makeing this D worse... nothing is further from the truth, initially there will be some issues.. but about 1/2 way through they will gel and emerge as a very good D.
I agree. Box's analysis is spot on.
I've said over and over that I expect this defense to be much better than the 2005-2008 defenses by mid-season. There will be some mental mistakes and growing pains early on which may cost us a game or two, but once players learn the system, learn to play together, and learn their roles they will be excellent. I'm not expecting 2003 dominance, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a defense averaging around 15 PPG and under 300 yards total offense, with upwards of 40 sacks. I'd settle for that after the past few years.
As far as leadership goes, there are a lot of experiences players on this time, including some new ones. Rodney became a team leader pretty quickly after he arrived. Springs or Burgess could step up and provide a lot of veteran leadership, not to mention Adalius Thomas in addition to the guys you mentioned. Wilfork may actually benefit form becoming "the man" on the DL instead of hiding in Seymour's shadow a bit.
Mental toughness - not sure about that one. It's hard to argue that Tedy and Vrabes and Rodney brought a lot of mental toughness. But it sure didn't show in our red zone and 3rd down defense last year. At some point, being mentally tough doesn't cut it if you can't get to the ball in time.
So, you have said so over and over again, both before the Seymour trade and after it. I have seen no difference in tone, confidence or prediction before and afte the trade. Events don't change your confidence.
Should I conclude that Seymour and any ex-patriot makes no difference in our predictions? Perhaps nothing makes any difference. Perhaps, in any case, many here would simply predict that our offense and defense would be good enough by season's end to take us to the Super Bowl. After all, haven't we all done that since 2001, and with good reason?
So, yes, we are all fans. And one way to express that is to expect us to win the Superbowl and for the defense to be up to the task. These predictions need not change with the trading of Seymour or Wilfork or anyone else.
Belichick's early experiences with Otis Smith, Tyrone Poole, Terrell Buckley probably are the reasons he took a chance on Deltha O'Neal, Duane Starks and Leigh Bodden. Let's hope Bodden plays like the guys from the earlier part of the decade (or better).
I'm just looking forward to Monday Night. Tomorrow is gonna be a long day too, as my football jones will be kicking in big time...
I really don't have too many reservations about the D this year. The defense has a couple good games against Buffalo and the Jets to see how things shake out. If we get solid wins and decent play from the D-line, then that ought to go a long way in giving them some confidence and shaking off the early-season nerves.
Once things settle in, we're gonna have a great season.
Agreed. I support Box!
Folks need to give this D time to gel and develop as a cohesive unit. Lots of questions for sure but that doesn't mean there aren't answers. Patience is key. The luxury this team has is that on the other side of the locker room is one of the greatest offenses in history is there to put up 35+ points in it's sleep.
I personally believe that there is WAY too much speed and raw talent on this D not to do well. I do think they'll be a bit shaky in the early going but by the bye, they will be performing well- maybe not 2008 Steelers well but at least better in the critical areas (red zone, INTs, QB pressures, 3rd down, passer rating, run D) that will allow them to get off the field.
The item that I am most concerned about is the Ds mental toughness and attitiude. I do put a little bit of value on leadership, physical play and mental toughness. They have lost a lot in that area. No question BB is counting on Mayo, Merri, Wilfork to lead both vocally and by example in that regard.
Exactly. However, unlike DL and LB groups, the DB personnel remained static throughout the preseason. Is this a reflection of organizational faith in the DBs or a lack of decent replacement talent?
Do you think BB has consciously decided that elite CBs are not as valuable as the league may collectively believe?
Also, can anyone give a quick technical analysis of why Chung got burned multiple times against the Giants?
QUICK TECHNICAL ANALYSIS
At this point is his NFL career, Chung does not have the skills and knowledge to cover my grandmother one on one. He won't be asked to do so any time soon.
Separate names with a comma.