Run defense is key

[BradyManny]

How much heavier than Wilfork and Walker should we have at DT?

Not a question of DT, but DE. Though I suppose they can't really get any bigger than the 34 (Reiss called it a 5-2) lineup they had. Which had Chris Jones in there. I think they still ran on us.

Not sure what the answer is.

 

[sb1]

I think a lot of what we are seeing is correctable by the coaches.

What we saw in 2002 was not, the problem was the talent.

 

[mgteich]

Not a question of DT, but DE. Though I suppose they can't really get any bigger than the 34 (Reiss called it a 5-2) lineup they had. Which had Chris Jones in there. I think they still ran on us.

Not sure what the answer is.

I also don't know what the answer is if Wilfork, Walker, and Chris Jones can't stop the run, even with Chung in the box as the big nickel, with linebackers Hightower and Collins.

The PROBLEM is the loss of Mayo. The solution must be to have others take over his roles, and step up. Clearly having Hightower play in place of Mayo was just not sufficient.

PERHAPS
Patricia should have Skinner playing in the base as he has played for a few games. BTW, who is calling signals with Mayo out? It seems obvious that Belichick will try to add a linebacker.

 

[RIpats88]

if they are this bad against chicago Iwill start to worry. but I am going to chalk it up to playing 2 LB's and not having enough time to gameplan for the loss of Mayo.

they were pretty solid against buffalo who has a good run game

 

[TBR]

why did we let tommy kelly leave? he took a pay cut and we still cut him.
he's better than all of our interior lineman...also should of kept spikes. don't tell me that the relationship with BB was broken because wilfork demanded a trade earlier in the offseason but everything worked out. we couldn't afford a 1 year 3mllion dollar deal? lol kraft just saving money..

They're saving up for Dez Bryant


I wish

 

[Saint Pat]

Was I the only person who saw the pats struggled on run defense against the fish and the chiefs even with a healthy Jerod Mayo? Or did I imagine that? I don't like to surmise that the problem with the run defense stems from the defensive line and/or the linebacking corp, but in the games against MIA, KC and NYJ every running play seemed to end only when the RB was way up in the secondary level.

Is the CFL season over? Maybe the pats should look at some LBs or D-linemen from CFL. Brandon Browner was in the CFL before he turned into a decent NFL starter.

 

[TBR]

Was I the only person who saw the pats struggled on run defense against the fish and the chiefs even with a healthy Jerod Mayo? Or did I imagine that? I don't like to surmise that the problem with the run defense stems from the defensive line and/or the linebacking corp, but in the games against MIA, KC and NYJ every running play seemed to end only when the RB was way up in the secondary level.

Is the CFL season over? Maybe the pats should look at some LBs or D-linemen from CFL. Brandon Browner was in the CFL before he turned into a decent NFL starter.

I'm in Canada and I think the CFL ends in about a month

 

[Saint Pat]

I'm in Canada and I think the CFL ends in about a month

Do you follow the CFL? If so, is there any decent talent there at any of the front 7 positions? (or is it front 8?)

 

[Gronkowski123]

They're saving up for Dez Bryant


I wish

maybe in fantasy land. i just don't understand some of the personnel moves...

 

[BradyManny]

The PROBLEM is the loss of Mayo. The solution must be to have others take over his roles, and step up. Clearly having Hightower play in place of Mayo was just not sufficient.

FWIW, I think Bedard noted Collins as playing Mayo's position. Perhaps it should be Hightower playing that role as PP said in another thread. That might be the first step. However, it's not a cure-all, since you still have the same personnel out there. As much as I love Collins in the pass game, he was poor in run defense, and like you say, we have to consider another LB (Skinner) in the base if he can't shore that aspect of his game up.

I hope the coaching staff has a better idea of what the fix is though. I expected a drop off from Mayo, but that was surprising last nite and I'm struggling for explanations.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

I also don't know what the answer is if Wilfork, Walker, and Chris Jones can't stop the run, even with Chung in the box as the big nickel, with linebackers Hightower and Collins.

The PROBLEM is the loss of Mayo. The solution must be to have others take over his roles, and step up. Clearly having Hightower play in place of Mayo was just not sufficient.

PERHAPS
Patricia should have Skinner playing in the base as he has played for a few games. BTW, who is calling signals with Mayo out? It seems obvious that Belichick will try to add a linebacker.

Perhaps. I think the answer is to do a better job of what they tried to do last night. That 5-2 is a pretty stout formation. Collins isn't the best run defender, but he is improving and with Chung in there, there's no reason that they shouldn't be tough to run on, once they've had time to practice, at least when they are in a base defense. It's the big nickel that worries me (in terms of personnel), when Walker is replaced by Wilson. Perhaps Ebner's return will help in that department, but only if he has use of his hands. The first step is to get their heads screwed on straight, because they were waltzing themselves out of running lanes last night. Size, strength, and speed don't matter, if you aren't fighting to be in the right place.

 

[TBR]

Do you follow the CFL? If so, is there any decent talent there at any of the front 7 positions? (or is it front 8?)

Sorry I don't follow it at all. I just know there's about a month left cause that's when the Grey Cup (their version of the SuperBowl) is usually played and gets a lot of attention on TV.

Maybe look through here if you're interested http://cfl.ca/article/best-of-the-best-tsn-unveils-cfl-top-50-list

 

[mgteich]

To be blunt, why aren't we playing 3 linebackers in the base as we have all year? Collins, Hightower and Skinner have all played in the base this year.

We'll know a lot more in 10 days, after lots of practices and after lots of decisions about adding position linebackers.

I don't think that it is sustainable to play with only three position linebackers on the 53.

 

[zipster9]

Was I the only person who saw the pats struggled on run defense against the fish and the chiefs even with a healthy Jerod Mayo? Or did I imagine that? I don't like to surmise that the problem with the run defense stems from the defensive line and/or the linebacking corp, but in the games against MIA, KC and NYJ every running play seemed to end only when the RB was way up in the secondary level.

Is the CFL season over? Maybe the pats should look at some LBs or D-linemen from CFL. Brandon Browner was in the CFL before he turned into a decent NFL starter.

Yeah. I don't think Mayo is the answer in the run defense. We need someone like Ted Washington (2003) sitting side-to-side with Wilfork.

IMO.

 

[AzPatsFan]

They were in a permanent nickel which to me makes no sense.

I agree he run D needs to be shored up. I don't think Mayo was a big reason why the run D was bad (unless with him they would have done a 4-3 more often). Just bad play for the most part.

Getting Siliga back will help and I think Skinner is a good enough run stopping LB (liability against the pass of course) that they should use him more for first downs ala poor man's Spikes.

However even if they do that they need to keep the outside contain which they have not in those 3 contest well.

They were in the permanent nickle, to sucker Rex into breaking his sword in a vain attempt to out rush the Pats. BB knew damn well that the Pats would outscore the Jets, while the Jets compiled useless running stats.

Meanwhile the Pats would outscore them while Bill Belichick suckered them.

The Jets got to "Ground and Pound" and beat their chests.

The Patriots outscored them with a mere 19 minutes of possession, and walked off with the Win.

 

[supafly]

why did we let tommy kelly leave? he took a pay cut and we still cut him.

As has been discussed a million times, Tommy Kelly and his agent asked for a release. Bill Belichick granted him the release. No one "cut" Tommy Kelly.

he's better than all of our interior lineman...also should of kept spikes. don't tell me that the relationship with BB was broken because wilfork demanded a trade earlier in the offseason but everything worked out. we couldn't afford a 1 year 3mllion dollar deal? lol kraft just saving money..

Your "Kraft is just saving money" argument is flawed in so many ways that it's not worth getting into, aside from pointing out that our team spends to the cap every year.

The idea of improving upon Spikes by deploying a trio of Mayo, Collins, and Hightower seemed like a pretty decent idea before Mayo tore his knee to shreds.

 

[supafly]

They were in the permanent nickle, to sucker Rex into breaking his sword in a vain attempt to out rush the Pats. BB knew damn well that the Pats would outscore the Jets, while the Jets compiled useless running stats.

Meanwhile the Pats would outscore them while Bill Belichick suckered them.

The Jets got to "Ground and Pound" and beat their chests.

The Patriots outscored them with a mere 19 minutes of possession, and walked off with the Win.

Your suggestion that Bill Belichick used the same "baiting" gameplan as he did with Peyton Manning and Jim Kelly's high powered offenses in the past is beyond ridiculous. That may work against high powered offenses such as the ones described with a multitude of offensive weapons, but we're talking about Geno Smith and his past six road game 0-6 record with 2 TDs/10 INT coming into last night.

Geno Smith and the Jets one and only positive coming into the game was their ability to run the ball. If Belichick and the Patriots had shut them down in the run game last night, they'd have won in a rout.

Belichick did not go into the game with some kind of baiting idea to let them play their game all night, which is to run the ball and control the clock.

The Jets became the one and only team in the history of the NFL to control the clock for that long while running for 200+ yards without a turnover and still lose in Thursday's game. If that was Belichick's idea, then he realized that he had a .0000000000001 chance of winning, which is proven by the statistics. The truth of the matter is that they got the ball run down their throats on a short 4 day week after losing their best run stopping tackler and defensive leader.

This is what really happened, right from the players' mouths:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...iots/2014/10/d_affected_by_loss_of_jerod_mayo

 

[SVN]

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...-make-definitive-judgment-on-patriots-defense

 

[IllegalContact]

They had one practice to get ready without mayo....the jets threw everything they had into this game..... On to Chicago

 

[KA-]

This run D scares the hell out of me