Report: Pats sign DT Tommy Kelly

[JackBauer]

This all started because of folks like you wanting to turn this away from football into childish back and forth about my attitude/opinion. It's perfectly fine if you disagree, carry on.

Uh huh. And you never play the victim. Of course it's everyone else that's the problem - not you.

You'll notice I wasn't assigning any blame in that post. Simply noting there's nothing to be gained by arguing with you, and, thus, ignoring you might improve the quality of discussion in this thread and others.

 

[Ivan]

Hard telling not knowing, could be a real boost, like Andre Carter, or it could be that he's seen his better days and doesn't make the roster, we have seen both scenarios many times so i don't really get why anyone would have a problem with it. It's not like he's going to keep them from making other moves so b.tching about it is senseless.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Uh huh. And you never play the victim.

You'll notice I wasn't assigning any blame in that post. Simply noting there's nothing to be gained by arguing with you, and, thus, ignoring you might improve the quality of discussion in this thread and others.

Go read the thread, I didn't start anything I just gave my opinion and defended myself afterwards. You're acting like a child whose come upon a new buzz word/phrase. I'm not going to heap blame on myself for your actions, sorry that's not how the world works. Maybe you should move on you've really added nothing to this thread but *****ing about my posts.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't think it's unfair to say Kelly might do nothing. He's 32, had a pretty dreadful year last year and the only time he was any good was when Seymour was dominating.

Like all fanbases, we constantly overrated how much of an impact guys like Kelly will do. I would only be mildly surprised if he was cut in training camp in favor of fringe guys like Cunningham and Francis because they can play inside and out.

Belichick was talking the Kelly in 2005 as one of the best DTs in football and that was three years before Seymour came to the Raiders. Also, if Kelly is just a product of Seymour (who was injured last season), wouldn't playing next to Wilfork and possibly Jones (if he takes a big second year leap like a lot of second year players do) possibly have a similar effect?

Of course, Kelly could turn into a bust of a signing, but calling a guy who has had a very good career minus last year a bum and comparing him to Hayensworth who really only had two or three good years in the NFL is a little overboard. That's where I take offense to the whole thing.

I think Kelly could end up being as successful as some of Belichick's biggest hits (Harrison, Phifer, Hamilton, Dillon, Moss) or as ineffective as some of his biggest failures (Haynesworth, Ellis, Ochocinco). We just don't know. People are assuming his bad year is because of his age, but it could be any number of things including a poor match for the system, Seymour being out gave him more attention, Allen being too laxed in his discipline, or whatever.

 

[JackBauer]

Go read the thread, I didn't start anything I just gave my opinion and defended myself afterwards. You're acting like a child whose come upon a new buzz word/phrase. I'm not going to heap blame on myself for your actions, sorry that's not how the world works. Maybe you should move on you've really added nothing to this thread but *****ing about my posts.

This is the last time I am ever going to engage you. I attempted repeatedly to get you to support your arguments. You made baseless assertions about things homers allegedly said, failed to back your assertions, and then whined like a baby when people called you on it. That's really all there is to it.

Now you may continue dragging your cross.

 

[Rob0729]

Hard telling not knowing, could be a real boost, like Andre Carter, or it could be that he's seen his better days and doesn't make the roster, we have seen both scenarios many times so i don't really get why anyone would have a problem with it. It's not like he's going to keep them from making other moves so b.tching about it is senseless.

Yeah, unless the Pats broke the bank on the guy (which we all know they didn't), why would this be a bad move? There is a chance he could turn into the 7 sack a year guy he was in two of the last three years.

 

[Don Kipines]

I expect no big signings at this point because everyone's been signed.

Actually there is a glut of quality players still on the market. Most of them are past 30, like Kelly, but there's no reason to think they can't contribute. John Abraham, Shaun Phillips, Dwight Freeney, Ahmad Bradshaw, Seymour, Antoine Winfield, Sheldon Brown, Woodson, Brandon Moore, all of those guys can still play and they're still out there.

The Pats this year have limited draft capital, a fair amount of cap room, and relatively few holes on a mostly young roster. This is the ideal time to shore up the roster with low-cost veteran signings.

A signing like Kelly is important because it gives them some breathing room for the draft. Before adding a quality vet on a two-year deal, the Pats would almost have been forced to draft a DT high this year, with Love and Deaderick hitting FA next year. Getting Adrian Wilson for three years did the same thing for the safety spot. It may not solve the problem, but it makes it less of an emergency.

Also, there are a lot of teams out there that aren't close enough to contention to spend any money, even 1.5-2 million, on a 32-35 year old player. The Pats being so close makes these signings justifiable and gives them an advantage. They can spend real money to upgrade the veteran depth on the team, whereas the Jets or Bills really need to be investing on upside only.

That's why this portion of free agency should be the sweet spot for the Pats. They should be able to pick up 2-3 good-very-good veteran players for low dollars, and it's guys like this who could make the difference next year -- they were just a couple of players away last year, so it seems to me this is a critical period for them. If Kelly can still play, it could be a pretty big deal.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Belichick was talking the Kelly in 2005 as one of the best DTs in football and that was three years before Seymour came to the Raiders. Also, if Kelly is just a product of Seymour (who was injured last season), wouldn't playing next to Wilfork and possibly Jones (if he takes a big second year leap like a lot of second year players do) possibly have a similar effect?

Of course, Kelly could turn into a bust of a signing, but calling a guy who has had a very good career minus last year a bum and comparing him to Hayensworth who really only had two or three good years in the NFL is a little overboard. That's where I take offense to the whole thing.

I think Kelly could end up being as successful as some of Belichick's biggest hits (Harrison, Phifer, Hamilton, Dillon, Moss) or as ineffective as some of his biggest failures (Haynesworth, Ellis, Ochocinco). We just don't know. People are assuming his bad year is because of his age, but it could be any number of things including a poor match for the system, Seymour being out gave him more attention, Allen being too laxed in his discipline, or whatever.

It's just as overboard to actually insinuate that Haynesworth was only good for a few years and act like Kelly has been a dominant force since 05. You are trying to discredit Haynesworth who was once the best DT in the game to bump up Tommy Kelly a once solid player that had a few great years in his prime, but is now exiting or out of it.

 

[JackBauer]

I don't think it's unfair to say Kelly might do nothing. He's 32, had a pretty dreadful year last year and the only time he was any good was when Seymour was dominating.

Like all fanbases, we constantly overrated how much of an impact guys like Kelly will do. I would only be mildly surprised if he was cut in training camp in favor of fringe guys like Cunningham and Francis because they can play inside and out.

Of course it's not unfair. On the flip side, this response is also not unfair, despite some protestations to the contrary:

If he can get his head out of his ass, straighten up and be ready to ball for a winner, look out. Wilfork-Kelly tandem would devour the inside.

Only downside is that both he and Wilfork are now in their 30s. I still want a young DT to develop.

 

[Brady2Moss]

This is the last time I am ever going to engage you. I attempted repeatedly to get you to support your arguments. You made baseless assertions about things homers allegedly said, failed to back your assertions, and then whined like a girl when people called you on it. That's really all there is to it.

Now you may continue dragging your cross.

I told you to look at reply 2, made a mistake. I supported my arguments in another post detailing the good and the bad over the hill signings of the past few years. Thank God you will now leave me alone instead of hopping into threads to badger me.

And you can continue to carry that axe you need to grind with me because I've rubbed you the wrong way.

 

[Ivan]

Yeah, unless the Pats broke the bank on the guy (which we all know they didn't), why would this be a bad move? There is a chance he could turn into the 7 sack a year guy he was in two of the last three years.

I think it is doubtful that he is still a 3 down player and doubt he was brought in to be anything more than a situational rotation player, and if he still has the skills he showed through most of his career then Belichick should be able to bring that out of him and give Wilfork plays off and get the push they need in the middle. Most offseason moves fall into the depth category, the impact moves are generally few and far between, so i just don't get why people piss and moan when they are making these moves. Wait and see how he does when camp opens and go from there.

 

[Ivan]

Actually there is a glut of quality players still on the market. Most of them are past 30, like Kelly, but there's no reason to think they can't contribute. John Abraham, Shaun Phillips, Dwight Freeney, Ahmad Bradshaw, Seymour, Antoine Winfield, Sheldon Brown, Woodson, Brandon Moore, all of those guys can still play and they're still out there.

The Pats this year have limited draft capital, a fair amount of cap room, and relatively few holes on a mostly young roster. This is the ideal time to shore up the roster with low-cost veteran signings.

A signing like Kelly is important because it gives them some breathing room for the draft. Before adding a quality vet on a two-year deal, the Pats would almost have been forced to draft a DT high this year, with Love and Deaderick hitting FA next year. Getting Adrian Wilson for three years did the same thing for the safety spot. It may not solve the problem, but it makes it less of an emergency.

Also, there are a lot of teams out there that aren't close enough to contention to spend any money, even 1.5-2 million, on a 32-35 year old player. The Pats being so close makes these signings justifiable and gives them an advantage. They can spend real money to upgrade the veteran depth on the team, whereas the Jets or Bills really need to be investing on upside only.

That's why this portion of free agency should be the sweet spot for the Pats. They should be able to pick up 2-3 good-very-good veteran players for low dollars, and it's guys like this who could make the difference next year -- they were just a couple of players away last year, so it seems to me this is a critical period for them. If Kelly can still play, it could be a pretty big deal.

This is pretty much how i see it, good points good post.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

If folks would stop responding to perpetually wronged Debbie Downer the thread will improve with legitimate critiques and concerns e.g. Kontra discussed.

 

[Rob0729]

It's just as overboard to actually insinuate that Haynesworth was only good for a few years and act like Kelly has been a dominant force since 05. You are trying to discredit Haynesworth who was once the best DT in the game to bump up Tommy Kelly a once solid player that had a few great years in his prime, but is now exiting or out of it.

Have you actually watched Haynesworth's career? He was fairly average his first 4-5 years with the Titans (and often injured) and turned into an absolute stud his last two years. About half of his sacks for his career (14.5 out of 30.5) came in his last two years in Tennessee. Once he went to the Redskins, he got wildly inconsistent.

Albert Haynesworth Stats - ESPN

Haynesworth was considered a bust until his last two years in Tennessee.

BTW, here is what Belichick said of Kelly in 2005:

Kelly was praised by Patriots coach Bill Belichick before the 2005 opener against the Raiders.

"Tommy Kelly is one of the best defensive linemen in the league. He's an outstanding player," Belichick said at the time.

"Kelly plays everywhere. He's a little bit like Howie Long in that Howie Long was a guy that they would move along on the front. They would take Howie and mismatch him against whoever they thought the other team's worst lineman was. There is a little bit of that with Tommy Kelly too, find a guy that they want to go after and stick him there because he does have the flexibility to play outside and inside.

New England Patriots, Tommy Kelly agree to contract -- source - ESPN Boston

 

[Rob0729]

I think it is doubtful that he is still a 3 down player and doubt he was brought in to be anything more than a situational rotation player, and if he still has the skills he showed through most of his career then Belichick should be able to bring that out of him and give Wilfork plays off and get the push they need in the middle. Most offseason moves fall into the depth category, the impact moves are generally few and far between, so i just don't get why people piss and moan when they are making these moves. Wait and see how he does when camp opens and go from there.

What the Pats need more than anything else is an interior pass rusher. When Kelly is on, he is one of the best in the league in that area. If last year was an aberration, Kelly might end up being one of the best situational pass rushers in the league. If not, who knows.

I agree though. He is brought in here to be a situational pass rusher. Pass rushing is what he does best. Pass rush is what the Pats are missing most. Seems like a perfect fit and probably for relatively cheap money.

 

[Rob0729]

If folks would stop responding to perpetually wronged Debbie Downer the thread will improve with legitimate critiques and concerns e.g. Kontra discussed.

Yeah, probably right. I am done with the guy. Probably a Jets fan getting his jollies trying to rile us up anyway.

 

[Deus Irae]

...I don't understand what you expect at this point in FA. At this point there are no 100 million dollar players to sign unfortunately B2M.

Patriots fans aren't being logically consistent when they talk about how they love the way BB works the free agency because he doesn't have to pay out big money, and then use the "this point in FA" as an excuse. The team could have spent money on the top FAs, but chose not to, which is why it's shopping at Walmart when it could have been shopping at Nordstroms. It's perfectly legitimate to criticize the signings they've made, IMO.

B2M is over the top, but the basic argument is a legitimate one.

 

[Ivan]

Yeah, probably right. I am done with the guy. Probably a Jets fan getting his jollies trying to rile us up anyway.

I put him on ignore during the Welker arguments but i don't believe he is a jets fan, more likely he is one of those fans who go into every free agency period wanting the biggest names and the biggest "splash" and gets all pissed off when they disappoint him, so he spends the rest of free agency b.tching and moaning about every acquisition that isn't Mike Wallace or Mario Williams.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

There'll be plenty of opportunity for well deserved criticism if BB fails to either sign a Macy's level FA pass rusher, e.g. Abraham or draft/develop one for this season. Similarly for the still-needs-work defensive backfield.

Guys like Kelly are shots in the dark. Odds are he's not much but he could work out for the Pats. I think BB takes 4-5 shots with what he thinks are 33% probabilities in the hopes that at least one hits.

 

[Ivan]

Patriots fans aren't being logically consistent when they talk about how they love the way BB works the free agency because he doesn't have to pay out big money, and then use the "this point in FA" as an excuse. The team could have spent money on the top FAs, but chose not to, which is why it's shopping at Walmart when it could have been shopping at Nordstroms. It's perfectly legitimate to criticize the signings they've made, IMO.

B2M is over the top, but the basic argument is a legitimate one.

As I said I have him on ignore but in the quotes i don't see him making the argument you are alluding to but only see him b.tching about each successive signing as a bad one. Someone could make the argument that there were better signings to be had but they would have to be specific and use their costs and fit them into the Patriots budget to make it properly. And as much as I would have loved to see them make impact signings in this free agency there doesn't seem to have been much middle ground, and i wouldn't have paid Harvin or wallace what they ended up getting as neither have earned it or deserve it imo. I would still like to see them sign guys like Freeney or Abraham and possibly Winfield and hope they get some of them done before time is up. I will hold off on judging their free agency until they are done and go from there but I would be interested to hear who you think they should have signed that they could have had.