Report: Dobson will be placed on IR (Now Official)

[mayoclinic]

Nice list Mayo but I still would like enough quality receivers to go 3 wide like we often did in 07 and know that all three are an option. And if Amendola is our #3, then he is basically a full time decoy. I just don't know what happened to Amendola's pure quickness.

Also, the Bengals are so bad without Green. Losing him seems to be the equivalent of us losing Gronk and Edelman. I would go as far to say they are on par w/ the Jags when he is out of the lineup.

I agree you want 3 WRs at times, though the Pats' use of 3WR sets seems to be down (for example, they used 3 WRs on only 6 of 73 snaps against Indy, and Amendola played only 15 of 81 snaps against Detroit). If Amendola is too limited to fill that role effectively when the team wants to use it, then he needs to be replaced. He's only been targeted 22 times on the year, so it's hard to judge to what extent his quickness has deteriorated.

 

[mayoclinic]

Exactly.

For all the grief the Pats get about their WRs, they have gotten tremendous productivity out of Edelman and LaFell for very reasonable cost. Edelman was a 7th round pick and QB conversion product who they developed.

Mike Reiss had this from his chat today:

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/boston/chat/_/id/51419

I think those 3 guys - and Wes Welker, whom Reiss didn't mention - where all incredible driven, hard-working guys who honed their routes and timing with Brady, and really studied film. I'm not sure who out there would qualify, at a reasonable price. Jason Avant comes to mind (he was lauded for his work ethic and leadership in Philly), but he's 31, and with a coach he knows in Andy Reid.

Brandon LaFell in learning the Pats' offense:

“The amount of work you’ve got to put in to learn this offense is ridiculous,” LaFell said. “To come out there and produce and get on the same page as Tom and the other guys, it took me the whole offseason, part of camp and pretty much the first two or three games. It’s gratifying, but it’s tough to do.”

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...4/12/patriots_notebook_lafell_s_work_pays_off

Something to think about in terms of expectations for a FA or rookie WR next year.

 

[Oswlek]

Brandon LaFell in learning the Pats' offense:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...4/12/patriots_notebook_lafell_s_work_pays_off

Something to think about in terms of expectations for a FA or rookie WR next year.

Nice find. I think we're all just going to have to get comfortable with the fact that, as long as NE runs their current offense, most WRs are going to be failures. It is easy to whine about success rates and call Bill incompetent, but clearly there is more to the story than that.

The real question is how important is this offense? NE is always near the top of the league in points scored, but how much of that is Tom and how much is scheme? Would they be just as effective running a simpler offense that is more approachable for newcomers? If not, how much more effective are they? Would they offset a slight drop off by having more certainty around WR investments?

I think that gets us close to the heart of the issue than "why does Bill suck at drafting receivers?"

 

[mayoclinic]

Nice find. I think we're all just going to have to get comfortable with the fact that, as long as NE runs their current offense, most WRs are going to be failures. It is easy to whine about success rates and call Bill incompetent, but clearly there is more to the story than that.

The real question is how important is this offense? NE is always near the top of the league in points scored, but how much of that is Tom and how much is scheme? Would they be just as effective running a simpler offense that is more approachable for newcomers? If not, how much more effective are they? Would they offset a slight drop off by having more certainty around WR investments?

I think that gets us close to the heart of the issue than "why does Bill suck at drafting receivers?"

I think that for both the offense and defense, BB values versatility and flexibility, but that creates complexity. It takes a certain kind of player to succeed, and work ethic and film study are vitally important. Complexity comes with a price.

I think that the offensive system also plays to Brady's strengths: his pocket presence, processing speed, ability to make all the throws, and accuracy. He's a QB who thrives on precise routes and timing, not someone who extends plays or creates on the fly, or a gunslinger. So you need receivers who will work with that kind of approach, who are unselfish, and patient.

Deion Branch, Wes Welker, Julian Edelman (who took several years to develop) and Brandon LaFell all seem to have the work ethic, intelligence and skill set to thrive. Some of the failures have been spectacular. Some guys who have been coveted in the past like Mike Wallace would probably have been abysmal fits.

I think you are spot on: as long as our offense is as currently designed, the majority of WRs are going to struggle. I wish I had a better recipe for finding guys that fit, but it's just not easy.

 

[Kontradiction]

Nice find. I think we're all just going to have to get comfortable with the fact that, as long as NE runs their current offense, most WRs are going to be failures. It is easy to whine about success rates and call Bill incompetent, but clearly there is more to the story than that.

The real question is how important is this offense? NE is always near the top of the league in points scored, but how much of that is Tom and how much is scheme? Would they be just as effective running a simpler offense that is more approachable for newcomers? If not, how much more effective are they? Would they offset a slight drop off by having more certainty around WR investments?

I think that gets us close to the heart of the issue than "why does Bill suck at drafting receivers?"

The majority of it is clearly Tom and the weapons he has to work with, as the beginning of 2013 made clear.

 

[Oswlek]

Some guys who have been coveted in the past like Mike Wallace would probably have been abysmal fits.

I can't agree enough with this statement. I have a pet theory that had NE and Pitt switched draftees in 2009, the rhetoric would have remained unchanged. I honestly don't think Wallace would have lasted much longer than Tate did and I think Tate would have been far more effective in the sandlot offense Pitt ran at that time.

 

[mayoclinic]

I can't agree enough with this statement. I have a pet theory that had NE and Pitt switched draftees in 2009, the rhetoric would have remained unchanged. I honestly don't think Wallace would have lasted much longer than Tate did and I think Tate would have been far more effective in the sandlot offense Pitt ran at that time.

I'm guessing that Emmanuel Sanders would have been a very good fit, however. It's too bad that one didn't work out. This offense with Sanders instead of Amendola (and they have very similar cap hits) would be sick. And Antonio Brown would be a perfect fit - he's exactly the kind of player who would thrive here.

 

[rochrist]

I think that for both the offense and defense, BB values versatility and flexibility, but that creates complexity. It takes a certain kind of player to succeed, and work ethic and film study are vitally important. Complexity comes with a price.

I think that the offensive system also plays to Brady's strengths: his pocket presence, processing speed, ability to make all the throws, and accuracy. He's a QB who thrives on precise routes and timing, not someone who extends plays or creates on the fly, or a gunslinger. So you need receivers who will work with that kind of approach, who are unselfish, and patient.

Deion Branch, Wes Welker, Julian Edelman (who took several years to develop) and Brandon LaFell all seem to have the work ethic, intelligence and skill set to thrive. Some of the failures have been spectacular. Some guys who have been coveted in the past like Mike Wallace would probably have been abysmal fits.

I think you are spot on: as long as our offense is as currently designed, the majority of WRs are going to struggle. I wish I had a better recipe for finding guys that fit, but it's just not easy.

I'm not sure I'd say Edelman took several years to develop. More he had to get over his injury problems and he was behind Welker. In his first game as a rookie he had 8 catches for 98 yards. In the last game of that season he stepped in for the injured Welker and had 10 catches for 103 yards. He followed that up with 6 catches in the playoff game.

 

[New England Pride]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...credits_aaron_dobson_with_acclimation_to_pats

Hurts to see this. I hope to eventually see Dobson at the X and Lafell at the Z next season. I love me some Lafell and he's basically indispensable at this point, but I still think he would be a better inside receiver.

 

[kudzif]

Nice find. I think we're all just going to have to get comfortable with the fact that, as long as NE runs their current offense, most WRs are going to be failures. It is easy to whine about success rates and call Bill incompetent, but clearly there is more to the story than that.

The real question is how important is this offense? NE is always near the top of the league in points scored, but how much of that is Tom and how much is scheme? Would they be just as effective running a simpler offense that is more approachable for newcomers? If not, how much more effective are they? Would they offset a slight drop off by having more certainty around WR investments?

I think that gets us close to the heart of the issue than "why does Bill suck at drafting receivers?"

It's not the offense but the players selected that are the issue. Every wr selection of our's is out of the league except Tate ( a special teamer).If it is just the offense why are they not making it at other teams with supposedly simpler playbooks.
The plays and routes run on offense are the same as every other NFL team.Patriots receivers are not running any routes drastically different and revolutionary than what receivers from other teams run.

Christian Fauria on weei said the playbook is no more complex than what he saw at other clubs, and that he actually saw a more voluminous playbook at Washington.Our evaluation process regarding wr's is the problem and should be re-assessed.

 

[mgteich]

Doug Kyed ‏@DougKyedNESN 32s33 seconds ago
Do you know what's crazy? The Patriots probably need to address WR in free agency or the draft again next year.

This really isn't news. We've known this since we understood that term team would not pay Amednola $4.4M for his 2015 services. Most of us have understood for months that while Dobson and Tyms were in the mix for 2015, we needed at least a couple of competitors for the 3 backup roster spots. It is possible to sign Amendola to a new inexpensive contract, and for both Dobson and Tyms to make the 2015 roster, or at lest be in training Camp.

In this case, we would have all five WR's back. Even in this case, it would be prudent to look for upgrades, camp competition and injury insurance.

So for me, there is no "probably" about it. The patriots need to look for additions in the draft and/or free agency. For obvious reasons, I prefer the draft. In any case, we already have two young developing (hopefully) players; we don't need another.

 

[mayoclinic]

Brandon LaFell in learning the Pats' offense:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...4/12/patriots_notebook_lafell_s_work_pays_off

Something to think about in terms of expectations for a FA or rookie WR next year.

As an encouraging sign, LaFell credits Aaron Dobson with helping him learn the offense:

"He is one of the guys that helped me a lot when I got here," LaFell said. "He pretty much helped me figure my way out through this offense and teach me this offense."

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...credits_aaron_dobson_with_acclimation_to_pats

Keeping my fingers crossed that he can get healthy and develop some consistency next year.

 

[luuked]

I agree you want 3 WRs at times, though the Pats' use of 3WR sets seems to be down (for example, they used 3 WRs on only 6 of 73 snaps against Indy, and Amendola played only 15 of 81 snaps against Detroit). If Amendola is too limited to fill that role effectively when the team wants to use it, then he needs to be replaced. He's only been targeted 22 times on the year, so it's hard to judge to what extent his quickness has deteriorated.

I don't see any reason why Wright can't play the role of one of the WRs on those plays were you want to have 3 WRs.

That being said, I think that an alternative way to put this offense into the "crazy good" category is getting a more formidable flex back. Currently, when Vereen is on the field the opponents still have to consider us doing a run play, but they don't really have to respect it. If we would have a flex back where they really had to respect the run it would be a game changer.

Not that I have any suggestions but I love how our defense is so incredibly flexible. I wish we could have a base set in the offense where we not only can execute both running and passing plays but actually do both at a high level.

 

[mayoclinic]

I don't see any reason why Wright can't play the role of one of the WRs on those plays were you want to have 3 WRs.

That's a very good point, plus it effectively gives the Pats flexibility to shift between 3 WR and 2-TE sets without changing personnel.

That being said, I think that an alternative way to put this offense into the "crazy good" category is getting a more formidable flex back. Currently, when Vereen is on the field the opponents still have to consider us doing a run play, but they don't really have to respect it. If we would have a flex back where they really had to respect the run it would be a game changer.

Not that I have any suggestions but I love how our defense is so incredibly flexible. I wish we could have a base set in the offense where we not only can execute both running and passing plays but actually do both at a high level.

I agree with this. The idea of a back who can run between the tackles but who can pass protect and be a receiving threat is very, very attractive. Not a ton of those guys around, but sign me up for finding one.

 

[luuked]

I agree with this. The idea of a back who can run between the tackles but who can pass protect and be a receiving threat is very, very attractive. Not a ton of those guys around, but sign me up for finding one.

This is where it could potentially help that the value of (drafting) RBs has plummeted dramatically over the last few years. Now you can draft at the end of the round and there is a good chance that you will still be able to choose among all RBs. We all know the saying that BB will never draft a RB in round one. I generally agree with that because it is usually not worth it and history has shown that due to injuries, replicability of RBs ect. he doesn't value that position this much.

That all being said, if there was a RB in the draft that projects to potentially be an elite dual threat the same way that Gronk is a freak combination of blocking and receiving TE, I could see BB actually pulling the trigger. A player like that would neither be interchangeable nor facing the same risk of injury that traditional RBs are.

The only question is if a player that projects to such a position can be found in college football. I would love it if while everyone else is still searching for their dual TEs and more athletic LB/s hybrids we were able to abuse draft market insufficiencies once again to obtain a player like that.

 

[mayoclinic]

This is where it could potentially help that the value of (drafting) RBs has plummeted dramatically over the last few years. Now you can draft at the end of the round and there is a good chance that you will still be able to choose among all RBs. We all know the saying that BB will never draft a RB in round one. I generally agree with that because it is usually not worth it and history has shown that due to injuries, replicability of RBs ect. he doesn't value that position this much.

That all being said, if there was a RB in the draft that projects to potentially be an elite dual threat the same way that Gronk is a freak combination of blocking and receiving TE, I could see BB actually pulling the trigger. A player like that would neither be interchangeable nor facing the same risk of injury that traditional RBs are.

The only question is if a player that projects to such a position can be found in college football. I would love it if while everyone else is still searching for their dual TEs and more athletic LB/s hybrids we were able to abuse draft market insufficiencies once again to obtain a player like that.

I'm not sure there is a "elite dual threat" RB out there. Tevin Coleman and Jay Ajayi look like the most enticing ones, with Coleman potentially having elite upside. But he's playing himself into a top 50 pick at this point.

 

[luuked]

I'm not sure there is a "elite dual threat" RB out there. Tevin Coleman and Jay Ajayi look like the most enticing ones, with Coleman potentially having elite upside. But he's playing himself into a top 50 pick at this point.

I wasn't sure what to call it and certainly don't like the "elite" terminology. I don't think anyone called Gronk an elite dual threat before the draft. But whatever measure our scouting department uses to project players should indicate that a player could grow into a player like e.g. J. Charles. Whether it happens is a different story altogether.

Also you know the upcoming draft class so much better than I do. I don't think I will start to look at all of it before the end of our season.

Anyway, it was just a thought I had when looking through some of our game footage. On some level it is very jarring to see our offense to put in a clearly one dimensional player for a few plays even as a decoy.

 

[Oswlek]

It's not the offense but the players selected that are the issue. Every wr selection of our's is out of the league except Tate ( a special teamer).If it is just the offense why are they not making it at other teams with supposedly simpler playbooks.
The plays and routes run on offense are the same as every other NFL team.Patriots receivers are not running any routes drastically different and revolutionary than what receivers from other teams run.

Christian Fauria on weei said the playbook is no more complex than what he saw at other clubs, and that he actually saw a more voluminous playbook at Washington.Our evaluation process regarding wr's is the problem and should be re-assessed.

Yes, I'm aware of that reasoning, but if this were a science experiment, the majority of the evidence would lead you to the other conclusion. We've heard from LaFell and Tory Holt about how difficult this offense is, plus seen a few vets come in and be completely lost after a full offseason, camp and a month or two of real games. It's not like rookies are the only problem children, and when a guy who excelled under Mike Martz's offense says this one is challenging, that is seriously eye opening.

As for Fauria, there are three reasons why I don't grant that as much weight as the other comments.

1) Fauria is an idiot. I liked him when he was just the weekly goof on Football Sunday, but now that he's on every day his weaknesses really shine through.

But that's ad hominem, so let's go on.

2) Fauria is a TE and there is no evidence of TEs struggling with the system.

3) Having a smaller playbook isn't the same thing as having an easier one. In fact, I could make a case that the opposite might be true. Imagine two playbooks, one with 10 plays and one with 2 plays but five adjustable route concepts depending on what the defense does. The first has more pages, but once you know the play you are good. And even if you don't know the play, someone can tell you, "just run a go!" or something to that effect. The other depends on you and the QB seeing the exact same thing and the same time. There are no cheats, you either got it or you don't.

Again, it's not like it's just me making **** up to excuse Bill for his draft failures. LaFell's quote stands for itself. He's a 4 year vet who still needed all off season, all camp and another month to finally figure out what he was doing. Clearly the offense is more difficult that Carolina's.

 

[oldrover]

According to Brandon LaFell.

"Brandon LaFell credits Aaron Dobson with acclimation to Pats offense"

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...credits_aaron_dobson_with_acclimation_to_pats

Let Dobsonmania reign, in absentia!!!

(whatever the hell that means )

 

[Jackson 2]

Dobson- latest in a long line of whipping boys. Step up, son, and take what cha got comin'!