Rams Cut Safety OJ Atogwe

[patfanken]

interesting discussion, but I just want to point out that this off season is going to be unlike any we've seen in the last 2 decades as far as quality FA are concerned. Many "all pro" types and many more quality starters as well. The FA market this year will be a buyer's market. There are so many FAs available that teams who can afford to spend can get a number of good, proven NFL starters for very reasonable contracts. Sure there will be a few guys who will break the bank in FA, but most will be forced to take more rational deals just because of the large number of guys available.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Yes he is worth 4m more than Meriweather. One finds the ball, the other finds his teammate. If we get Atogwe, we will be a top 5 defense for sure.

Warren - Wilfork - Warren

Cunningham - Mayo - Spikes - Rookie

McCourty - Atogwe - Chung - Bodden

Holy crap.

here is the stats over the last 3 years since Meriweather has been the starter he has 234 tackels and 12 INT's Oshiomogho Atogwe has 232 tackels and 10 INT's and Atogwe played with a better pass rush in a much weaker division... if you take out he's Career year of 8 INT's 4 years ago he has only averaged 3 INT's per season thats not Ed Reed, numbers so i dont see how he would make the pats a top 5 pass defense

 

[Seneschal2]

...McGowan is a FA, Lockett could be placed back onto the PS, people seem to forget that Safety is something that we are going to need these next couple of years. This would be one of the best BB FA pick-ups that we have seen in a while.

Any Safety we bring in would immediately upgrade the bottom of the position, while possibly complementing the abilities of those at the top - Meri/Sanders/Chung. Adding a smart, veteran player to the mix makes the overall defense stronger -- not just the secondary. Smarts and ball skills are preferred qualities for BB's DBs, making Atogwe a good fit.

Atogwe has been mentioned on this board as a potential FA signing in '08 and again in '09. At that time I posted that he was an official pre-draft visit of the Pats way back when. Now that he's NFL proven, there may still be interest -- or not. JMO.

As with all FAs, $$$ is the influencing factor for the right players.

 

[Seels]

You guys are overrating Atogwe quite a bit. I don't see BB even entertaining the thought, he knows the caliber of safety Atogwe is (basically a poor mans Asante Samuel at FS) and knows how much he'll cost. If the Rams, a team with a relatively low payroll and playoff hopes in the not too distant future are cutting him, this should be a giant red flag.

 

[capetide]

Re: Rams Cut OJ Atogwe

If we did go after either S, I think it would be Sanders seeing as how BB has seen his play first hand over the course of six or so years whereas Atogwe he's only faced once (2008). Plus, Sanders brings a mean SOB mentality that we could really use. And given our depth at S, we could rotate him enough to keep him fresh and off IR. Think about....Sanders and Sanders....:rocker:

Sanders would bring a much needed mean SOB attitude to our injured reserve list.

 

[Froob]

Honestly, I still think Meriweather can be a top safety, he was a lot better in 09. I don't think BB will get into a bidding war over Atogwe.

 

[Rob0729]

The guy is a good, but not great safety. Someone is probably going to overpay for the guy. With the offenses in the NFC West, I would be weary of any defender coming out of that division because their production could be inflated by the competition. The only good offense in that division was the one he played on.

 

[DW Toys]

Go back and read my posts. Nowhere did I call him a bad player. I made a comment about angles, because of what a lot of people here have said about Sanders and Meriweather. You jumped up on your horse for nothing.

Lets all agree he is a major upgrade over Sanders. Yes, I know I have been relegated as a Sanders hater. He had a good year and I applaud that but he is the weakest link of the defensive backs . Merriwether is still young and maybe the light comes on.He is the best athlete of the three. Sanders is at his ceiling. How can anyone say O.J. is not an upgrade?
DW Toys

 

[Froob]

The key is, how much with OJ cost? James Sanders isn't getting paid too much.

 

[DW Toys]

Any Safety we bring in would immediately upgrade the bottom of the position, while possibly complementing the abilities of those at the top - Meri/Sanders/Chung. Adding a smart, veteran player to the mix makes the overall defense stronger -- not just the secondary. Smarts and ball skills are preferred qualities for BB's DBs, making Atogwe a good fit.

Atogwe has been mentioned on this board as a potential FA signing in '08 and again in '09. At that time I posted that he was an official pre-draft visit of the Pats way back when. Now that he's NFL proven, there may still be interest -- or not. JMO.

As with all FAs, $$$ is the influencing factor for the right players.

I am very glad you trust Sanders in the passing game. It is your opinion. I say he is a major liability and O.J. has a better body of work on his resume. No one can deny this. It is all about getting better in the back middle. Chung , Merriweather and Sanders were inconsistent at best. If I am another team and I am going to attack the Pats D in my passing game, I take my chances and go after Sanders. Case closed.

If we look at this without "binkyness" involved and intelligently, Sanders is the number three Safety and is getting paid $3 million per year. Let's not talk about how overpayed O.J. would be quite yet. How many #3 rotation Safeties make $3 million a year? Would you keep Merriweather at $600,000 or Sanders at $3 million? If it became a CAP consideration. I would say Sanders is odd man out.

So when some of the elite posters tell me to show him the stats, I have them ready so he doesn't have to do any work:

JS=Tackles 301 Interceptions 8 (ball skills) Sacks 1
Pass Defended 17 (coverage) 6 years in NFL

OJ=Tackles 390 Interceptions 22 (ball skills) Sacks 5
Pass Defended 38 (coverage) 6 Years in NFL

I think my reasoning is obvious. You pick.
DW Toys

 

[convertedpatsfan]

The key is, how much with OJ cost? James Sanders isn't getting paid too much.

Agreed. Sanders' 2011 base salary will be $2.8M, and he was 6th in defensive snaps played this season. Atogwe was set to make around $11.5M which is why the Rams cut him.

I don't see Atogwe as better than Meriweather, maybe a bit better overall than Sanders (though not really comparable since they're completely different types of players). If the salary was equal, I might take Atogwe, but odds are salary won't be close. I could see Atogwe costing $5M+.

 

[DW Toys]

The guy is a good, but not great safety. Someone is probably going to overpay for the guy. With the offenses in the NFC West, I would be weary of any defender coming out of that division because their production could be inflated by the competition. The only good offense in that division was the one he played on.

Overpay? We are paying a third string Safety $3m per year. How much more is O.J. really going to be? Can we now dangle Merriweather or Sanders to a Saftey challenged Team like the Cowboys? Would the Cowboys offer their second rounder for a Merriweather? He would be a fit with Jerry and that is not an outrageous trade. The Boys need a Safety and they won't go first round for one. (another suitor for O.J.?) Would we release JS to gain $3 million in cap space and use Page who has more INTs and Pass Defenses than Sanders in 5 years versus 6 for JS, or Barrett who BB took injured which is saying a lot and who is a much more prototypical Safety in stature and speed? If you can buy O.J. for about the same price as Sanders you move James Sanders in my humble opinion.

This is still not my favorite theory of helping the back end with O.J. but he is an upgrade. I say Champ Bailey as a F.S. and pay him more than either. Bailey and Chung would be formidable. In this spread age passing attack, a Safety who can't cover (see J.S.) is a liability. The other fact is Bailey can slide inside or even outside in a dime package. He is multi-dimensional and BB likes that. If we want to add a playmaker in the Defensive backfield. Champ is the pick up I want. He has some years left and certainly Cotchery is not open by fifteen yards in front of Ol' #36 in a certain play-off game (all of you who doubt me, Cousins look at the tape. No one expected Spikes to cover him man up).

The other fact is smarts. I will buy JS is smart. I can't say about the others (of course Merriweather lowers the bar). JS is limited and there is no upside. I think Champ and O.J. have NFL smarts as well.
DW Toys

 

[Deus Irae]

Lets all agree he is a major upgrade over Sanders. Yes, I know I have been relegated as a Sanders hater.

That's because you have an irrational position regarding the man.

He had a good year and I applaud that but he is the weakest link of the defensive backs.

And here's a perfectly good example. There is no way that James Sanders was the weakest link of the Patriots defensive backs last season, as his snap count should tell you. The "weakest link" honor pretty clearly went to the CBs behind McCourty, or a safety that couldn't beat out Sanders. Opinions will vary on which particular one, but that's not really important.

Sanders is at his ceiling. How can anyone say O.J. is not an upgrade?
DW Toys

Sanders is the 3rd link in a 3 safety group. Meriweather took 80% of the defensive snaps last year. Chung took 72.3% of the defensive snaps last year. Sanders took 70.8% of the defensive snaps last year. The question then becomes one of why you would bring in Atogwe to play ahead of Chung or Meriweather, because Atogwe is going to want to start.

 

[DaBruinz]

Lets all agree he is a major upgrade over Sanders. Yes, I know I have been relegated as a Sanders hater. He had a good year and I applaud that but he is the weakest link of the defensive backs . Merriwether is still young and maybe the light comes on.He is the best athlete of the three. Sanders is at his ceiling. How can anyone say O.J. is not an upgrade?
DW Toys

Sanders isn't the weakest link amongst the defensive backs.. Sheesh.. You seem to have forgotten Brandon McGowan (who is a UFA now). You know.. The guy who got benched because he couldn't cover a gnat, never mind a TE.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I am very glad you trust Sanders in the passing game. It is your opinion. I say he is a major liability and O.J. has a better body of work on his resume. No one can deny this. It is all about getting better in the back middle. Chung , Merriweather and Sanders were inconsistent at best. If I am another team and I am going to attack the Pats D in my passing game, I take my chances and go after Sanders. Case closed.

If we look at this without "binkyness" involved and intelligently, Sanders is the number three Safety and is getting paid $3 million per year. Let's not talk about how overpayed O.J. would be quite yet. How many #3 rotation Safeties make $3 million a year? Would you keep Merriweather at $600,000 or Sanders at $3 million? If it became a CAP consideration. I would say Sanders is odd man out.

So when some of the elite posters tell me to show him the stats, I have them ready so he doesn't have to do any work:

JS=Tackles 301 Interceptions 8 (ball skills) Sacks 1
Pass Defended 17 (coverage) 6 years in NFL

OJ=Tackles 390 Interceptions 22 (ball skills) Sacks 5
Pass Defended 38 (coverage) 6 Years in NFL

I think my reasoning is obvious. You pick.
DW Toys

Time out. Part of your argument is that Sanders would be overpaid at $3M, then in the VERY NEXT SENTENCE mention how we shouldn't talk about how much Otagwe would cost? He's not going to be cheap, and if $3M is a lot to pay for Sanders as a 3rd safety, how do you feel about a 3rd safety who would cost twice as much?

Otagwe has a track record of being a turnover machine, but last year was asked to play in the box more and wasn't quite the same. Even when he's at his best, he's similar to Asante in his coverage, big risk vs. big reward.

As for the stats, I think they can tell part of the story, but not all. Consider:

Player 1:
8 seasons, 489 tackles, 116 PD, 28 INT

Player 2:
8 seasons, 310 tackles, 54 PD, 11 INT

Player 1 is Terence Newman. Player 2 is Nnamdi Asomugha. Are we going to conclude Newman is the better player because he makes more plays?

 

[DW Toys]

Time out. Part of your argument is that Sanders would be overpaid at $3M, then in the VERY NEXT SENTENCE mention how we shouldn't talk about how much Otagwe would cost? He's not going to be cheap, and if $3M is a lot to pay for Sanders as a 3rd safety, how do you feel about a 3rd safety who would cost twice as much?

Otagwe has a track record of being a turnover machine, but last year was asked to play in the box more and wasn't quite the same. Even when he's at his best, he's similar to Asante in his coverage, big risk vs. big reward.

As for the stats, I think they can tell part of the story, but not all. Consider:

Player 1:
8 seasons, 489 tackles, 116 PD, 28 INT

Player 2:
8 seasons, 310 tackles, 54 PD, 11 INT

Player 1 is Terence Newman. Player 2 is Nnamdi Asomugha. Are we going to conclude Newman is the better player because he makes more plays?

Ah........I'll bet that nobody is throwing to Asomughas side. Isn't that a fair statement? Nice try. I am not buying. That was a wiff Cousin.

Let's all agree on one thing . Sanders can't cover either and that part of his game is his biggest liability. He is the field general, nothing more.....wow?! I give him credit for that.
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

Sanders isn't the weakest link amongst the defensive backs.. Sheesh.. You seem to have forgotten Brandon McGowan (who is a UFA now). You know.. The guy who got benched because he couldn't cover a gnat, never mind a TE.

I don't see where McGowan's name came up here? Why are you dragging him in? As I was so informed he is a UFA and not part of this conversation. At least he could tackle.

I reiterate Cousin, Sanders is the weakest link of the DBs in coverage. Sorry, you can't twist that. He is a very nice guy and decent field general who had his best career year and we were still 30th yards against in the pass.
What are you guys talking about here? I don't get it. Tell me why all the boy love for a mediocre Safety who does not start?

Don't tell me he is an above average coverage guy DB? You are way to smart for that. I would settle for that though.
DW Toys

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Obsessed with James "Peyton Game Over Pick" Sanders much? Nah!

 

[DW Toys]

That's because you have an irrational position regarding the man.



And here's a perfectly good example. There is no way that James Sanders was the weakest link of the Patriots defensive backs last season, as his snap count should tell you. The "weakest link" honor pretty clearly went to the CBs behind McCourty, or a safety that couldn't beat out Sanders. Opinions will vary on which particular one, but that's not really important.



Sanders is the 3rd link in a 3 safety group. Meriweather took 80% of the defensive snaps last year. Chung took 72.3% of the defensive snaps last year. Sanders took 70.8% of the defensive snaps last year. The question then becomes one of why you would bring in Atogwe to play ahead of Chung or Meriweather, because Atogwe is going to want to start.

Cousin, you can't have it both ways:

Sanders is the 3rd link in a 3 safety group. Meriweather took 80% of the defensive snaps last year. Chung took 72.3% of the defensive snaps last year. Sanders took 70.8% of the defensive snaps last year. The question then becomes one of why you would bring in Atogwe to play ahead of Chung or Meriweather, because Atogwe is going to want to start

Arrington, McCourty, Chung, Merriweather and....as it was so eloquently put our third safety "group" guy ,Mr. Sanders. Who was worst in coverage? I rest my case or are you going to throw Barrett in the mix where he did not suit up?


Why the attack on me? He is nothing more than a mediocre replaceable part of the Pats DB mix who is overpayed for a third string Safety in my opinion. He is very weak in coverage as the league now becomes more spread the field oriented (will you give me that much?).

If he is cut for CAP reasons are you slicing your wrists? (Merriweather is only $600,000)

Mr. Sanders is replaceable in my opinion and $3 million is way too much for him for a mediocre Safety. I am very amused if you think this is far off base. He is getting paid the same as Merriweather and Chung together. What the heck? Irrational? I have not admired this kids play for many year.He had a good year. He is not the answer period (again my humble opinion that you are not going to a change nor am I going to change the "Sanders Lovers of New England Society". We can agree to disagree but I am pretty comfortable in my assessment.


Look at it this way. The Cowboys need a Safety. They might throw a decent pick for Merriweather. We agree that Ronnie Lott or Ed Reed does not have to worry about Brandon upstaging him. Do you think someone in the League would give us more than a 6th rounder for JS?
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

Obsessed with James "Peyton Game Over Pick" Sanders much? Nah!

I remember that one too.....nice play. .........O.K. more........? Oh.

By the way....Seems to me many on this forum credited Cunningham with a hard rush to cause that. Now which is it? But J.S. did catch it. Like a said ..."A"... nice play.


So if Chung, Merriweather, Brown or even Barrett on I.R. are in that position, it is not the same result? Yes? No?

I was very happy J.S. made that pick
DW Toys