Welcome to PatsFans.com

Quick hindsight on the roster debates

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Fencer, Sep 14, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,659
    Likes Received:
    15
    Ratings:
    +32 / 0 / -13

    I think there are three cases in which Game 1 suffices to show what BB was thinking that many of us didn't realize or at least weren't confident in:


    • Dowling was ready to play -- that explains why Butler was expendable.
    • Solder was ready to play -- that explains why all the candidates for #4 tackle were expendable.
    • Slater is not ST-only -- that and all the praise for his ST play show that he really was a roster near-lock.
    Everything else I can think of (e.g.: Pryor is more than an end-of-roster guy) is subject to the "Dude, it's only one game" objection. But I think the three I cited go instead into the "So THAT'S what they were thinking" bucket.
  2. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,659
    Likes Received:
    15
    Ratings:
    +32 / 0 / -13

    Expanding on that -- does Slater seem to be the regular lone WR in 3-TE sets? It would make sense if he were, since I'd conjecture he's the top blocker among our WRs ...

    And is Slater also the KR now?
  3. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    41,611
    Likes Received:
    330
    Ratings:
    +912 / 46 / -48

    Disable Jersey

    Ehh.... Slater being used, just for those couple of plays, actually plays into the arguments of those who want a deep speed guy that's actually good.

    Butler's struggles were enough to explain why he was expendable.

    Solder played against a tailor made opponent, and he still had moments of difficulty, which many have ignored. He played well, but he's not getting into the Pro Bowl based upon his performance.
  4. Trocadile

    Trocadile Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2005
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Edelman and Slater were back on kickoffs, with Edelman as the deep (primary) returner.
  5. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,115
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0

    #24 Jersey


    UMMmmm....He's a ROOKIE starting his FIRST game on the OTHER side from where he's used to playing against a premier rusher.......

    Please give us a break...he looked very good given the circumstances.....the play where Brady got sacked by Wake was a result of good coverage, NOT a blown assignment...

    Moments of difficulty...????? Crapo, I'll take moments of difficulty vs SUCKING at his job all game long for a rookie...:rocker:
  6. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    41,611
    Likes Received:
    330
    Ratings:
    +912 / 46 / -48

    Disable Jersey

    I was responding to the OP about his position on Solder. I stand by my response, as the opponent was perfect for the rookie, because Wake's game's built on speed and effort, where a stronger and larger opponent would have been more of a problem, because Solder's got the length to tie up Wake without having to get into a leverage and strength contest. And on that play you're referring to as a coverage sack, Solder was beaten clean. I noted that he played well. You seem to have ignored that in your rush to attack my post.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
  7. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,115
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0

    #24 Jersey

    NOBODY has even mentioned Solder as a Pro Bowler after the Miami game that I know of....


    The kid did a credible job against a top sack machine......tailor made for him or not, that's all we have to compare him to ATM....


    Not attacking you...but your position on the kid is BB like.....

    are you BB ?

    :cool:
  8. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    41,611
    Likes Received:
    330
    Ratings:
    +912 / 46 / -48

    Disable Jersey

    :confused2:

    Bedard's analysis:

    Overnight ratings are high - The Boston Globe

    Seems to echo my points pretty well.
  9. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,659
    Likes Received:
    15
    Ratings:
    +32 / 0 / -13

    I'm claiming that BB had confidence in Solder as a backup. I'm further saying that Solder indeed performed a fine backup tackle pressed into starting duty.

    Does anybody disagree?
  10. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    5,699
    Likes Received:
    227
    Ratings:
    +405 / 13 / -8

    #91 Jersey

    This is an interesting point. How good do you have to be when his main job is to take the CB deep to open up lanes for the TEs. All he has to have is the the speed to make the the route a threat, and all the Pats have to do is throw the ball twice a game to make the threat legitimate. Slater fills THAT specific role as well as Moss could (though Moss would have probably made the 2nd catch)

    So, while having a TRUE #1 type deep threat on the outside would be ideal, in the meantime Slater fills the need to do the specific task necessary to fulfill the needs of the formation

    He also could be a victim of BB's transition to a bigger and stronger secondary

    I too will object to you depiction of Wake as a "tailor made" opponent. In fact I would opine that Solder was "tailor made" for Wake.

    There is no question that Wake IS a premier pass rusher. He is a very high motor, very quick, relentless rusher. His PRIMARY skill is his ability to get lower than his bigger stronger adversary (a la James Harrison, and Elvis Dummerville) What better foe could Wake possible hope for than than the TALLEST OT in the league, playing his first game, out of position....on the road, On the surface it must have looked like he was being served up a slow pitch softball.

    I would also disagree with your depiction of Wake's sack as having Solder "beaten clean". That can't be further from the truth. IIRC Wake made a great inside move and Solder recovered to drive him down the LOS and past Brady who was now moving to the outside. Then it was WAKE who made a superb second effort to spin out and track down Brady who had moved outside the pocket and was now close to the LOS.

    You make it sound like he simply blew by Solder for the sack, instead of acknowledging on that play, Brady had 5 or 6 seconds to throw the ball before the sack. BTW Wake DID blow by Solder once, for one of the hurries.

    As for your remark that Solder didn't have to face a bigger opponent. That doesn't jibe with the fact of Bedard's article. He mentioned that he faced Wake 16 times on Monday. Brady dropped back 48 times. Would you have us believe that Miami was sending THEIR version of Kyle Arrington those other THIRTY TWO time they rushed.

    DI. what Solder did on Monday was a REMARKABLE effort, especially under the conditions he was thrust into. I can only think that you feel its YOUR job to contain the euphoria and over hype that often runs rampant on this board. That is a noble, important and often THANKLESS job. However while we all need to cool our jets from time to time, you shouldn't feel you have to embellish stuff in order to fulfill your mandate.

    In THIS case, Solder's effort, though flawed (like most OL men, even the all pros) is deserving of ALL the "euphoria and over hype". Given the circumstances and who he was playing against, he played well above the level we had a right to expect.
  11. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    5,699
    Likes Received:
    227
    Ratings:
    +405 / 13 / -8

    #91 Jersey

    This is an interesting point. How good do you have to be when his main job is to take the CB deep to open up lanes for the TEs. All he has to have is the the speed to make the the route a threat, and all the Pats have to do is throw the ball twice a game to make the threat legitimate. Slater fills THAT specific role as well as Moss could (though Moss would have probably made the 2nd catch)

    So, while having a TRUE #1 type deep threat on the outside would be ideal, in the meantime Slater fills the need to do the specific task necessary to fulfill the needs of the formation

    He also could be a victim of BB's transition to a bigger and stronger secondary

    I too will object to you depiction of Wake as a "tailor made" opponent. In fact I would opine that Solder was "tailor made" for Wake.

    There is no question that Wake IS a premier pass rusher. He is a very high motor, very quick, relentless rusher. His PRIMARY skill is his ability to get lower than his bigger stronger adversary (a la James Harrison, and Elvis Dummerville) What better foe could Wake possible hope for than than the TALLEST OT in the league, playing his first game, out of position....on the road, On the surface it must have looked like he was being served up a slow pitch softball.

    I would also disagree with your depiction of Wake's sack as having Solder "beaten clean". That can't be further from the truth. IIRC Wake made a great inside move and Solder recovered to drive him down the LOS and past Brady who was now moving to the outside. Then it was WAKE who made a superb second effort to spin out and track down Brady who had moved outside the pocket and was now close to the LOS.

    You make it sound like he simply blew by Solder for the sack, instead of acknowledging on that play, Brady had 5 or 6 seconds to throw the ball before the sack. BTW Wake DID blow by Solder once, for one of the hurries.

    As for your remark that Solder didn't have to face a bigger opponent. That doesn't jibe with the fact of Bedard's article. He mentioned that he faced Wake 16 times on Monday. Brady dropped back 48 times. Would you have us believe that Miami was sending THEIR version of Kyle Arrington those other THIRTY TWO time they rushed.

    DI. what Solder did on Monday was a REMARKABLE effort, especially under the conditions he was thrust into. I can only think that you feel its YOUR job to contain the euphoria and over hype that often runs rampant on this board. That is a noble, important and often THANKLESS job. However while we all need to cool our jets from time to time, you shouldn't feel you have to embellish stuff in order to fulfill your mandate.

    In THIS case, Solder's effort, though no perfect (like EVERY offensive lineman in the league, even the all pros) is deserving of ALL the "euphoria and over hype". Given the circumstances and who he was playing against, he played well above the level we had a right to expect. One COVERAGE sack and 2 hurries in 48 drop backs is a great day for ANY offensive lineman, not to mention run blocking for backs who averaged almost 5ypc
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
  12. Sicilian

    Sicilian On the Roster

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    4,915
    Likes Received:
    120
    Ratings:
    +268 / 1 / -2

    I think regardless of BB's faith in Solder, having a backup T would have been nice. And don't say Welch, because clearly he was an emergency option who is now gone.
  13. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    11,512
    Likes Received:
    270
    Ratings:
    +603 / 6 / -0

    I'm not sure we can conclude anything at all about Slater's ongoing role -- or whether there's a "deep threat" WR on the roster -- from a game where Price was injured and inactive.
  14. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    8,932
    Likes Received:
    84
    Ratings:
    +119 / 1 / -1

    #24 Jersey

    I would have to disagree on this. Slater is not brought onto the field to be the speed deep threat guy. He is brought on the field to be a blocking WR. On this play they used the formation and presence of Slater to lull the D into thinking run and then Slater took it deep and had a semi easy play.

    Part of the beauty of this play is that at least for a few weeks teams will see this on film and have to respect the pass a little more out of this obvious run formation.
  15. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    41,611
    Likes Received:
    330
    Ratings:
    +912 / 46 / -48

    Disable Jersey

    Slater was on the field 3 times, and was targeted deep twice. He wasn't blocking on those plays, and the formation/setup is really irrelevant at that point. Slater was playing the deep speed guy that the team doesn't actually have right now.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
  16. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    41,611
    Likes Received:
    330
    Ratings:
    +912 / 46 / -48

    Disable Jersey

    You're welcome to disagree, Ken. Last year, it was Wake v. Vollmer, and Wake was completely shut down.

    BTW. Vollmer and Solder are the same height.

    Wake is perfect for the big guys to deal with.
  17. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,115
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0

    #24 Jersey

    I believe they moved Wake over to the other side after Solder semi neutralized him......not sure how D. Gronk/Light did against him tho....


    Nice to have 2 tall young OT's tho.....draft our starting OC next April and Pats will be set protecting TB for another 4-5 years.....
  18. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    8,932
    Likes Received:
    84
    Ratings:
    +119 / 1 / -1

    #24 Jersey

    Certainly could be the case that he gets used as the speed guy I didnt see it that way though. Not sure how you can say formation/setup is irrelvant based on 3 plays. Those could be the only 3 plays that go deep out of that formation all year.

    Seems like 3 plays is a very small sample size compared to what we have seen out of Slater and his role as a WR from last year.
  19. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    41,611
    Likes Received:
    330
    Ratings:
    +912 / 46 / -48

    Disable Jersey

    You were the one claiming he was in for an apparent blocking assignment. I was responding by stating that the formation was meaningless for determining that. Refer to your sample size argument below.

    I never claimed otherwise. My point was quite the opposite, in fact: "Slater being used, just for those couple of plays, actually plays into the arguments of those who want a deep speed guy that's actually good."
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
  20. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    8,932
    Likes Received:
    84
    Ratings:
    +119 / 1 / -1

    #24 Jersey

    I did not claim he was in for a blocking assignment for those plays but that is what he will generally be called in to do. And I think the formation is far from meaningless for this point. It is very relevant that the formation is generally one that a team would run out of.



    They passed out of a run formation and caught the Dolphins off guard not sure how that plays into an argument regarding a better deep speed guy as had he been on the field for the play he would have garnered more respect and the play may not have been open.

    Again I mention the sample size. I could find three plays where just about anything happens doesnt mean it would make for a good point in an arguement because the truth would lie outside of said small sample size.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>