Problems

[hosuepainter]

Good to see someone pointing out offense problems. I thought I'd see another Defense sukcs thread.

Our offense plan has been so dull and predictable and lack of in-game adjustment. Everytime we lost a game, people blames on the defense. But look at the games we lost this year: Jets, we score 9 freaking points. Broncos, shut down the whole 2nd half. Colts, we had so many opportunities to put the games away in the 2nd half but just like the playoff game in 06, we let them back in the game.

And Saints tonight. Yes, our D gave up quite a few big plays. But remember we were up 7:3 and our D just made a stop and got us a good field position. What did Brady do? INT on the first play. HUGE momentum shift. In the second half as soon as the D finally stopped them and gave us a chance to catch up. What did the O do? THREE and OUT. This offense absolutely have no killer instinct. Everyone predict a shootout. Well, the Saints did their part, what about Brady and the Pats?

I agree with some of the posters on 2007. I think 07 did us more bad than good. The local media, the fans all get an orgasm watching brady to moss or Welker catching 14 balls. But remember what brought us the 3 Superbowl rings? Spreading the balls, the screen plays, the creative game plans. It just baffles me when we knew the opponents D are gonna blitz or bring the pressure, we still couldn't find an answer (remember 07 superbowl?). In the old days we were BEGGING opponents to blitz because we're going to bury them with ease.

 

[Seymour93]

I see where your coming from, but Brady playing like that is all about the protection. The Saints came out and said they would study the Giants Superbowl film (how the got to brady) You cannot function as a QB with that kind of pressure. They did nothing to stop it. On the other hand, We dont seem to have the scheme. Remember back in 07 when we could spread em out and take shots to gaffny, stallworth, moss, welker, faulk? Now all the focus is on Randy and wes. They are playing press on the two. We have a lot to fix

We used to have Gaffney and Stallworth to keep the defense honest. Now we have Aiken (he has stepped up in recent weeks granted) and Stanback as our other WRs.

Plus, Buffalo game aside, we aren't getting enough production out of the TE's.

 

[mgteich]

I agree. We may not be as good as the saints, but I strongly feel if we had coordinators of the quality of Charlie and Romeo supporting Belichick and dante, we would have a couple of more wins.

I think the biggest problem with this team is coaching, they play sloppy on offense (people always blame coaching for that), the play calling, very little winkles. And they should've never lost that Denver game, that game is the Jets game from last year. If we don't get the second seed, that might be that game, just like not beating the jets at home probably cost the Pats a playoff birth last season.

 

[mcgraw_wv]

I feel it's a mix of offensive play calling, and Tom Bradys lazer locked Moss and Welker paterns. You can't keep running Welker on the Same routes, and you can't jsut send Moss deep every play you need to pick up yards. We need lots of differnet formations, play actions fake, and other tools. You can't be an effective play action faker when your in shutgun all the time.

 

[brady et al fan]

OL just sucks. Same thing happened in Indy in the second half. Brady was constantly under pressure with only the DL bringing it, leaving 8 guys to cover. Please get well soon Mr Vollmer.

Tonight we saw just what an accurate passer can do to this secondary. Brees looked like he was on the playground against a bunch of kids. And Wilhite continues to be my least favorite Patriot. Merriweather was lost as well, offering zero help downfield for Wilhite. This was the game I wanted to see after that Indy game to get a read on this D and I now have it. They are not good.

To their credit, the Saints are really good. Noone will beat them if they play like that every week. Didn't matter they went without Bush. They are stacked.

One positive thing, Maroney looked good early on when we were still running the ball.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

I do believe that much of difference between the teams tonight had to do with the difference in the quality of coaching (on both sides of the ball). I can remember when it was the patriots who confused the opposing defenses with our playcalling and the variety of our offense. I can remember when it the patriots who confused the opposing offenses with our defenses; the offenses of the opponents didn't know what was coming.

Sadly this last paragraph is so true. Worse part about it is I no longer expect that the Pats will win a game because of superior coaching as in years past. In fact, I actually am growing to expect to lose as a result of inferior coaching. never thought I'd see or say that.

 

[mcmurtry86]

I feel it's a mix of offensive play calling, and Tom Bradys lazer locked Moss and Welker paterns. You can't keep running Welker on the Same routes, and you can't jsut send Moss deep every play you need to pick up yards. We need lots of differnet formations, play actions fake, and other tools. You can't be an effective play action faker when your in shutgun all the time.

You nailed a big problem they have. Brady has developed a horrible habit of either forcing the ball to Moss or checking down to Welker short of the first-down sticks. A #2 WR would help a lot IMO, hopefully Tate can be that guy next year.

 

[mcmurtry86]

One positive thing, Maroney looked good early on when we were still running the ball.

Maroney has been having a good year running the ball. Of course his fumbles diminish a lot of his value but when he can keep a hold of it, he has shown to be a good RB.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

The dynasty is dead. This has become just another team, maybe a bit above average, but I can't see them moving out of the first round of the playoffs.

A lot of things have been pointed out on this thread, and it's clear - change is needed. Personally, I think it should start with the coaching staff.

The sloppiness exhibited tonight bears no resemblance to the championship Patriot of yore, and one leaves the game wondering about preparation for this game.

Of course, it may be a simple matter of the Saints being better than the Patriots, but if this is so, the chasm between the two teams is yawning.

And yes, Wilhite looks like he's in way over his head. That was a pathetic exhibition he put on.

 

[mayoclinic]

Get Brady's ass under center, and have the WR's start running more routes than quick slant, and go patterns.

We used to have a creative offense. It is predictable now...

Bingo. Give that man a dollar.

I hate the bleeping shotgun. We're so predictable. Especially when Brady keeps targetting the same guys.

Denver game all over again, but against a really good team, so it was 38-17 instead of 20-17.

 

[mayoclinic]

Problems:

1. The coaching and game plans on both sides of the ball. This is the 4th time this year we've had horrible play calling. All 4 were losses. O'Brien and Pees just don't cut it. It's painful to see teams like the Saints run rings around us with creative play calling and use of personnel. We need to upgrade our coaching staff. And while I'll always believe BB is the GOAT as a head coach, if he's the problem and he's been around too long then that needs to change too.

2. Brady. He's regressed big time, and morphed into 2001-2004 Peyton Manning (who has morphed into Tom Brady). He's really been hurt by Moss and Welker. He doesn't look for the open man, he just forces the ball in to those guys. He's become more of a whiner and a gunslinger than ever before. He needs to stop running out of the shotgun and go back to play action.

3. The pass rush. The pass rush. The pass rush. You can't win in the modern NFL with no pass rush. Pathetic.

4. The OL. Vollmer and Mankins are studs on the left side, but from Koppen on to the right we need an upgrade. Neal when healthy is solid, but he's aging and injury prone. Kaczur is a joke against a good pass rush. Koppen is a nice field general but just not powerful enough.

 

[Bertil]

The dynasty is dead. This has become just another team, maybe a bit above average, but I can't see them moving out of the first round of the playoffs.

A lot of things have been pointed out on this thread, and it's clear - change is needed. Personally, I think it should start with the coaching staff.

And yes, Wilhite looks like he's in way over his head. That was a pathetic exhibition he put on.

I agree with this. The Patriots are living ON their prior SB excellence. They should be living UP TO this legacy. I'm not seeing a Championship this year. The rest of the league has caught on to the Patriots (OK, not the entire league. By this I mean the real Elite teams).

I know it's blasphemy to even think, but perhaps BB would best serve by taking a "President of Football Operations" type of position, ala BP, overseeing the entire culture, managing the inner machinations. Due to the man-hours involved, coaching is increasingly a younger man's game. BB is 57 and soon may not have the requisite stamina to continue the grind. That's not just my take. I've been seeing it elsewhere, but it has given me something to ponder. He's probably going for another SB Chamionship to ensure his legacy, rather than to allow his unjustly tainted career to end without one.

Perhaps BB should stay on the sideline, but it's clear that an infusion of young, hungry and creative coaching talent is necessary elsewhere. Josh was a welcome change from Charlie. O'Brien may well assume their level of success at some point, but he's not been up to the task thus far. I don't know what it's lacking specifically, but it's clearly something. On the Defensive side, Pees seemingly has not been capable of effective in-game adjustments. This has resulted in multiple late-game collapses for which the Patriots are becoming known. It looks like the "running up the score" accusations are really a way for BB/TB to practice outrunning the Defensive malfunctions that are inevitable. Whatever the personnel limitations, there should not be such a vast disparity between first and second half production.

As for the personnel limitations, Wilhite has been unjustly villified, IMO. He has been in good position on a number of deep throws, which were spot-on, due to a lack of pressure in the pocket. He could well be a serviceable 3rd or 4th CB, who is being pressed into being a number 2 (pardon the pun). That has passed muster in the past (see Gay, Randall) when the front 7 were more functional. Would the Pats have more pressure with Seymour? Not much, I'd bet. The pass rush needs to be overhauled from both a personnel and schematic standpoint, which is why the first rounder from Big Sey 93 was a coup. I'm really confindent that Floyd Reese will prevail as a personnel guru, should he stay on. They're sooooooooo close to being right there, personnel-wise (Interior OL, OLB, 3rd WR, DE). That's just my opinion. I may be guilty over overvaluing my favorite team.

Anyway, this reads like a typical morning after knee-jerk reaction rant, which it may well be. It's not all that bad. I believe the Patriots are close, just not Super Bowl striking distance close. Good grief. How do Browns fans do it week after week? We're lucky.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Problems:

1. The coaching and game plans on both sides of the ball. This is the 4th time this year we've had horrible play calling. All 4 were losses. O'Brien and Pees just don't cut it. It's painful to see teams like the Saints run rings around us with creative play calling and use of personnel. We need to upgrade our coaching staff. And while I'll always believe BB is the GOAT as a head coach, if he's the problem and he's been around too long then that needs to change too.

2. Brady. He's regressed big time, and morphed into 2001-2004 Peyton Manning (who has morphed into Tom Brady). He's really been hurt by Moss and Welker. He doesn't look for the open man, he just forces the ball in to those guys. He's become more of a whiner and a gunslinger than ever before. He needs to stop running out of the shotgun and go back to play action.

3. The pass rush. The pass rush. The pass rush. You can't win in the modern NFL with no pass rush. Pathetic.

4. The OL. Vollmer and Mankins are studs on the left side, but from Koppen on to the right we need an upgrade. Neal when healthy is solid, but he's aging and injury prone. Kaczur is a joke against a good pass rush. Koppen is a nice field general but just not powerful enough.

Agree with all - esp the play calling and Koppen

 

[maverick4]

The problems are schematic, not talent related.

 

[Patspsycho]

Problems:

1. The coaching and game plans on both sides of the ball. This is the 4th time this year we've had horrible play calling. All 4 were losses. O'Brien and Pees just don't cut it. It's painful to see teams like the Saints run rings around us with creative play calling and use of personnel. We need to upgrade our coaching staff. And while I'll always believe BB is the GOAT as a head coach, if he's the problem and he's been around too long then that needs to change too.

2. Brady. He's regressed big time, and morphed into 2001-2004 Peyton Manning (who has morphed into Tom Brady). He's really been hurt by Moss and Welker. He doesn't look for the open man, he just forces the ball in to those guys. He's become more of a whiner and a gunslinger than ever before. He needs to stop running out of the shotgun and go back to play action.

3. The pass rush. The pass rush. The pass rush. You can't win in the modern NFL with no pass rush. Pathetic.

4. The OL. Vollmer and Mankins are studs on the left side, but from Koppen on to the right we need an upgrade. Neal when healthy is solid, but he's aging and injury prone. Kaczur is a joke against a good pass rush. Koppen is a nice field general but just not powerful enough.

Regarding 1-3, I would not be so quick to pass judgement until we've had at least 1-2 more years with this squad, to allow them to mature and grow in their roles. Then I think we can start passing judgments on whether the blame lies with schemes or with talent.

The Jets and Denver losses had everything to do with offense, but our last two losses could be said to have to do largely with defense. This represents an evolution of some sort.

 

[maverick4]

Problems:

1. The coaching and game plans on both sides of the ball. This is the 4th time this year we've had horrible play calling. All 4 were losses. O'Brien and Pees just don't cut it. It's painful to see teams like the Saints run rings around us with creative play calling and use of personnel. We need to upgrade our coaching staff. And while I'll always believe BB is the GOAT as a head coach, if he's the problem and he's been around too long then that needs to change too.

2. Brady. He's regressed big time, and morphed into 2001-2004 Peyton Manning (who has morphed into Tom Brady). He's really been hurt by Moss and Welker. He doesn't look for the open man, he just forces the ball in to those guys. He's become more of a whiner and a gunslinger than ever before. He needs to stop running out of the shotgun and go back to play action.

3. The pass rush. The pass rush. The pass rush. You can't win in the modern NFL with no pass rush. Pathetic.

4. The OL. Vollmer and Mankins are studs on the left side, but from Koppen on to the right we need an upgrade. Neal when healthy is solid, but he's aging and injury prone. Kaczur is a joke against a good pass rush. Koppen is a nice field general but just not powerful enough.

This is as spot on as it gets.