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Peter King again misses the point BB made

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SVN, Feb 19, 2008.

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  1. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/02/19/mmqbte/index.html

    to quote king "its hard to believe he did not understand what BB was refering to as interpretation.
    i wish if he had an email we could write to. he hides behind that form on the si pages.
     
  2. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    I think King's interpretation is the correct one. Even Jon Kraft said it was. I can't see how it would be interpreted any other way. If you read Reiss' article, it's clear that Belichick is referring to the rule in the manual which is different than the one in this memo. That rule can be interpreted the Belichick way.

    All King is saying is that the memo overrides the rule in the manual, and that Belichick should have been aware of the memo.

    The thing is, the league on multiple occasions has caught teams violating the memo, and they didn't care. So I'm sure Belichick just deliberately ignored the memo. Either that or perhaps he really didn't see it.
     
  3. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    i thought BB's argument was the tape was not accesible to be used during the game which is what the memo refers to as well no ? its wordplay but thats BB's argument i think.
     
  4. BPF

    BPF In the Starting Line-Up

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    Good explanation below:
    http://thesportslawprofessor.blogspo...pretation.html

    7. Now here's the rub: the NFL, apparently just before the season began, sent a memo from Executive Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson to the teams that "reminded" them that, “videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game.” Here's where all the overheated commentators get their "prohibition" idea, and conclude that Belichick violated a clear prohibition and thus is a cheater making up lame excuses about misinterpretation. Not so fast, please.

    8. First, just what is the effect or significance of a memo from a league vice president? I can't find out, but I would imagine the NFL employs quite a few people who have the title of vice president. Does a memo from a league VP have the effect of law? Is it equivalent in significance to the NFL's "Game Operations Manual" quoted above? Can the NFL, through some memo from a VP, simply amend the Manual just like that? No committees, no notice, no deliberations: just a memo that adds words and gives the rule a particular meaning, and it's done? Can a memo create a new rule that is instantly binding on all teams?
     
  5. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    send this to king if you'd like. Lets see if he responds.
     
  6. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    Read Reiss's article again. That rule refers to using the video to gain an advantage during the game.

    The memo refers to using videotape during the game. Two completely different things.

    Belichick cited the manual language in his defense to Reiss. The memo language is different.
     
  7. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    Apparently yes. Goodell is the sole arbiter. He can do whatever the hell he wants.
     
  8. richpats

    richpats Banned

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    The rule prohibits videotaping on the sidelines DURING a game, end of story. BB could have never seen the tapes and still would have been breaking a rule.
     
  9. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually, that's not what the rule does.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2008
  10. richpats

    richpats Banned

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    Memo: "Video taping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

    Manual: "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game ... All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

    My "interpretation":

    The Manual allows for videotaping if the locations is "enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead". The Memo doesn't allow for videotaping of ANY type. Either way Belichick broke the rule by having a cameraman on the field.

    Some are trying to stress the "during the game" language in reference to WATCHING the recorded video, it actually refers to RECORDING the video itself.
     
  11. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Read them in their entirety and maybe that will help you. Here, let me help. This is from Reiss:


    The key issue is how one views "a game". For Belichick, it was referring to the game being filmed. For Goodell, it meant any game, present or future.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2008
  12. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey


    I agree with all you say here ... I'm wondering how many league memos Belichick pays attention to ... then again how many head coaches pay attention to all that crap.
     
  13. tdw777

    tdw777 Practice Squad Player

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    You also have to also read the rule in its entirety. When you read the rule in its entirety, you begin to understand how BB interpreted the rule the way he did. I'm not saying he was correct or incorrect in his interpretation...I am merely saying that when you take an unbiased and logical look at it, you begin to understand how someone may interpret the rule the way BB did.

    The rule itself is ambiguous..video equipment "in use" “during the game" "for coaching purposes". As the blogger for the sports professor cited in a previous post points out " http://thesportslawprofessor.blogspo...pretation.html/ if we wanted to write a rule that limited the making of video recordings to the two enclosed locations ..we could do so directly, without the need to use phrases like "to be in use" or refer to particular coaching locations or limit the prohibition to "during the game." If the rule is as the NFL says, why have the first clause at all? The rule is a mess, and the very fact that a bunch of lawyers (or fans in this case) are all staring at it and seeing different things (even if wrongly) displays reasonable ambiguity by itself.

    I am not a lawyer, but in my profession I sometimes have to interpret legal descriptions that contain ambiguities. What you have to do is interpret intent...what was the intent of the writer at the time he wrote it. There will be many who don't agree with this anaology..but, I think it can be applied in this case.

    What was the intent of the NFL at the time the rule was written?? To me, it is obvious that they did not want video technology to influence the game; hence "in use" in the coaches both," "on the field" "in the locker room". BB’s interpretation of the rule..agree or not..is valid. He was not using the video for in game use.

    What BB should have done when the memo came out was to call the league office and ask for further clarification of the rule. I think he admitted as such in his interview with Reiss.
     
  14. Topher

    Topher Rookie

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    My first post - but I just wanted to say I am astounded that most people arent smart enough to see Belichick's interpretation is very sound - - and the belief that videotaping signals is prohibited in and of itself makes no sense based on the "rules."

    If the purpose of the rule was that signals are not supposed to be tapped, then you would hope that somewhere, in the memo, or gameday manual, or bylaws, there would have been a sentence flat out saying "the videotaping of opponents signals is prohibited."

    Instead in each of these statements from the NFL, the rule is qualified - - each say that such tapings or use of equipment are only prohibited in certain locations during the game.

    What does this mean? It means that if all of these statements mean what they say, then the videotaping of signals is allowed in every location other than those stated. It also means the only way the medias (or NFL's) interpretation works is if you stop reading each of these rules in midsentence- which makes no sense.

    Moreover, the purpose of the location qualifications seems to clearly be to prevent access and usage of the tapes during the game. Therefore, even if Belichick didnt comply with the letter of the law, there is no plausible argument that he didnt comply with its purpose - - or that it was that big a deal cause taping of signals is (according to the rules) allowed anyway.

    I would also add that for an old school coach like Belichick, who has probably seen this done since the 70s, it would be very easy for him to presume that the rule cant mean what everyone seems to think it does.

    Sorry for the long, rambling first post, and thanks to anyone who actually bothered to read it. I've been needing to write this for 6 months
     
  15. letekro

    letekro In the Starting Line-Up

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    Without courts, or a similar judicial body, to interpret this language, BB was left hoping that his interpretation of the rule was the same as the league office's. BB should have erred on the side of caution and asked for clarification on this issue. Being a bit of an old-school guy, he probably assumed that what he was doing was part of the game and had always been such, i.e., no would enforce the rule - like jaywalking. In fairness to him, nobody could've foreseen the resulting sh*t storm. But, again, he was reckless here.
     
  16. PatsFanJess

    PatsFanJess Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Great first post!!! I especially agree about the part of BB being old school. Every sign points to this being exactly what happened.
     
  17. tdw777

    tdw777 Practice Squad Player

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    Exactly. Great first post Topher.
     
  18. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    send this to florio and king. though doubt it will have an affect.
     
  19. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I like to hear Peter King's weekly interview on the dale & holly WEEI show.

    I laugh every time I hear him because, he really does not know anything
    about football. He may be a good writer, but his football knowledge is
    at a middle school level.

    I also get a kick out of Jerry Callahan. He is also a guy who makes me
    scratch my head over his success. His knowledge is on the same level
    of Peter King. He also reminds me of the Howie Carr of sports. If he is
    not writing a negative article, he is not in the paper.
     
  20. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Peter King has great football knowledge on a personal level ... he's not an x's and o's guy and he does not pretend to be. He's getting too much bad info from his friend Marty Shat-enheimer on this one.
     
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