Pats want to build fortress around Brady

[Drewwho]

I have never been impressed with Light. I think he is average at best. He is weak in the legs and has a hard time with strong arming his opponent. He continually gets beat and beat bad.

If not for his QB being what he is and the talent and understanding of getting the ball out quickly, Light would be gone or demote by now. We need a change on the OL...BADLY!

 

[mgteich]

Being close to being back is NOT equal to be at 100% of his former abilities are taking a year off from playing football. In the end, it doesn't matter. Light will start at OT for the pats in 2006.

BTW, I find it interesting that we think tha Kaczur is capable of starting at LT, RT or RG. However, we rarely discuss potential other positions for Mankins, who also is an OT. It is also intersting that with these three and Gorin, Ashworth and Britt as potential abckups, we identify OT as the need. Don't look now, but we ahve no guards!

He was almost ready to play in January. This will be September.

Remember, BB didn't want to place him on IR until week 16 or so. This wasn't even close to being as severe an injury as Rodney's.

 

[pats1]

Being close to being back is NOT equal to be at 100% of his former abilities are taking a year off from playing football. In the end, it doesn't matter. Light will start at OT for the pats in 2006.

BTW, I find it interesting that we think tha Kaczur is capable of starting at LT, RT or RG. However, we rarely discuss potential other positions for Mankins, who also is an OT. It is also intersting that with these three and Gorin, Ashworth and Britt as potential abckups, we identify OT as the need. Don't look now, but we ahve no guards!

But history also has it that BB doesn't draft true guards. He moves theminside from tackle or outside from center.

 

[FSUPatsFan]

I too am convinced that the O-line needs to be upgraded. However, I'm not sure I would want to spend a 1st round pick on a linemen. Hypothetically if Lendale White/DeAngello Williams and an o-linemen the caliber of say Eric Winston/Winston Justice are available, I will have a hard time not taking one of those two running backs, especially White. I'm not sure if a good running back or o-linemen can be had in the 2nd round. I'm also not sure who is available through free agency. If good o-linemen are available through free agency, I think that might be the best route to go. I think linemen would want to come to NE and protect an Elite QB like Brady knowing he won't throw them under the bus. And, if we have a running back with a future like white, than thats all the more incentive for them to want to come to NE.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Yeah, dhamz, it most likely is a pipe dream to think of Ferguson ending up on the Pats. I bet that most fans would squawk about giving up say our first and second and next year's second ( actually the price would probably be higher) to move up and nab Ferguson but I counter with this - no player we could draft would have more impact on our team, not even Reggie Bush. I admit that such a trade would be a hard pill to swallow given our aging LB corp, need for a stud DB and a replacement for Dillon. But Ferguson would have such a dramatic effect, lasting a decade maybe, that I say the price would more than be worth it.
I'm no expert on judging rookies but watching Ferguson just maul every DL they threw at him during Senior Bowl practice was mighty impressive.

Maybe a guy like Winston Justice isn't certain to be a franchise changing OL but because no one on our line is near All-Pro level except Koppen (and he's near that level but not there yet) and big athletic guy like Justice might still be worth a high pick for this team.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that bb drafts tackles to play left guard. I will point out that the reality is that LT's are the college OL talents so we draft a lot of LT's. However, I believe a road grader RG or RT is another type of player, and we need one.

I disagree with regard to the center position. He doesn't draft tackles to play center.

But history also has it that BB doesn't draft true guards. He moves theminside from tackle or outside from center.

 

[pats1]

I agree that bb drafts tackles to play left guard. I will point out that the reality is that LT's are the college OL talents so we draft a lot of LT's. However, I believe a road grader RG or RT is another type of player, and we need one.

I disagree with regard to the center position. He doesn't draft tackles to play center.

That's not what I meant. He either drafts tackles to move inside to guard OR drafts centers to move outside to guard.

 

[JR4]

But history also has it that BB doesn't draft true guards. He moves theminside from tackle or outside from center.

I don't think you mean if BB/SP want a guard they draft a tackle. Do you?
It may have happend that way in the past but don' t bet your house that
they always will do it that way.

 

[mgteich]

Mankins (the LT) was the best prospect for LG available at 32. I suspect that a LT is almost almost the best way to fill a LG position. However, as I have said RG is another matter entirely. Give me a Round 2 road grader instead any day.

I don't think you mean if BB/SP want a guard they draft a tackle. Do you?
It may have happend that way in the past but don' t bet your house that
they always will do it that way.

 

[shakadave]

There's a difference between being good enough (which is a judgement call) and being very good. A very good line frees up talented TE's to be out running routes rather than getting their shoulders injured. A very good line keeps a HOF QB healthy and either lessens the need for more expensive elite talent at other positions or allows you to maximize it's value.

Take it for what it's worth but Felger hinted last week that the reason Kaczur was in and out of the starting lineup the last few weeks had less to do with his shoulder problem than with some "rookie problems". Felger was not willing to go into in detail because he said he had the info from off the record sources. He hinted the problem had to do with not showing up ready to work some days. He said they were very disappointed because given his draft age (26) they expected a more mature approach from the player.

We don't know what BB is looking for because we don't really know what he's looking at. It's as easy to say give it time as it is to say blow it up. BB watches these guys practice and rehab and he evaluates them on tape more expansive than the network provides. He also knows exactly who was supposed to do what while often all we can do is guess. He has shown signs of growing tired of being just good enough at Oline, WR and RB. He traded for Dillon in 2004 to upgrade the running game. He drafted high in 2005 to upgrade the Oline. He tried to sign Mason to upgrade WR in 2005. He wants an offense that can make the most of the advantage he has in Brady. We're not there yet.

There were lots of injuries that complicated evaluating this teams performance. But BB watches them work every day and he may have a sense that even healthy he's not quite where he wants to be yet. I know we can't afford to make assumptions that wind up having Brady getting cuffed around again in 2006. I'd like to see an Oline that can stand alone with only minimal or occasional need for support in extreme circumstances for openers, and I'd like to see one with a couple of guys getting pro bowl mention next season. Maybe they're already there and I'm just not seeing it.

But I definitely like the title of this thread - I want a fortress built around Brady. It would represent money well spent for the forseeable future.

Great post! Rocks-solid analysis. Should be required reading for us all! I'm appointing myself the official cheerleader for this thread....

 

[shakadave]

I think linemen would want to come to NE and protect an Elite QB like Brady knowing he won't throw them under the bus. And, if we have a running back with a future like white, than thats all the more incentive for them to want to come to NE.

Plus, they might get to appear in VISA commercials!

 

[patman52]

Unless Ashworth and Neal both leave Idont see the pats addressing the oline inthe 1st day. Light, Gorin and Kascur are seviceable. hochstien Koppen and Mankins likewise. I think Wesley Britt will compete for a spot this year also.

As we know the pats take the best player at a posiotn of need when they draft on the1st day.

 

[mgteich]

The question is whether we want a "seriveable" OL, or whether we want an OL that will protect Brady and be feared throughout the league.

Unless Ashworth and Neal both leave Idont see the pats addressing the oline inthe 1st day. Light, Gorin and Kascur are seviceable. hochstien Koppen and Mankins likewise. I think Wesley Britt will compete for a spot this year also.

As we know the pats take the best player at a posiotn of need when they draft on the1st day.

 

[Mainefan]

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to bolster the offensive line, either by draft or through free-agentry, even before strengthening the defense. It's not just a matter of protecting Brady, as important as that is. It's a matter of freeing our terrific pair of tight ends to catch the ball. Let's see opposing team defensive backs stop Watson/Graham, Branch/Givens and Kevin Faulk simultaneously.

Yes, the defense is important, and it needs work, especially at the safety and CB positions, but if Brady could be given three or four seconds more in the pocket without help from the TE's, or even the same amount of time he has now without help from the TEs, our pass offense could be terrifying.

So, after drooling over people like Michael Huff or Darnell Bing and Chad Greenaway, I am becoming converted to the idea of improving the OL until it matches the DL. I lean toward the idea of finding the OL guys in free agency--proven people instead of potentials. I'm no mind reader, of course, and anything but a candidate for GM, but it seems to me that BB and associates must be mulling over similar ideas.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The only problem with bidding for the proven FAs is the price compared to drafting a rookie to work with. The challenge for us is to guess where they wish to upgrade the line, and how they will do it; draft or sign FA Gs, draft or sign FA Ts and convert them, re-sign their FAs and assume the injuries where bad luck and the current crew is good enough.

If you wanted a college LT who matches up with Mankins for versitility and nastyness, Colledge of Boise State or Whitworth of LSU looks likely. If you want a mobile road grader G, Jean-Gilles of Geogia (if he has the discipline to lose 20 pounds and stick with it), Spencer of Pittsburgh (he should drop 10-15), and Sims of Ohio State all look possible. If you want a strong pass blocker with a weak run game who isn't Ferguson, Levery of South Carolina is very good at pass blocking.

 

[Ring 6]

My take on the OL:

Light is excellent at LT
Mankins can be fine at LG,RG,RT
Koppen is "OK" but I believe he will leave as a FA.
Kaczur IMO can fit in at LG,RG,RT and be a LT if Light goes down.

Neal, IMO is gone.

We have quality depth in Hochstein, Gorin, Ashworth (if he stays) and the developmental program does a great job of providing us depth and guys who can step in if there are injuries.

If there are 9 OL spots, I want them to look like this:

Light
Mankins
Koppen
Kaczur

3 of the 'developmental guys' at this point I'd have Hochstein, Yates, and Gorin as the favorites.

2 draft picks.
1 a first round T or G. We have Mankins, Kaczur and this guy to fill the 3 spots at RT and both Gs. Any combination is fine, get the best player.

1 a later pick to be the replacement for Koppen. A good C should be able to be had in the 3rd or 4th, who can be ready when Koppen goes.

This gives us an OL, compare to last year of 2 good players that were injured most of the year, i.e. upgrades, 2 2nd year players who should be better, and a drafted stud.

Next year, when the draft rolls around, these guys will have developed into whatever they are and we will either go into that draft with no OL needs (and a very young OL) or needing to upgrade a disappointment.

IMO, the priority right now on this team, as I have said before, is positining itself to have an OL that is among the NFLs best.
We arent extremely far away, IMO. Light, Mankins, a first round pick are all guys that fit as part of a 'best' OL. Koppen, Kaczur wont bring it down, and could both become that caliber.

Sure we have other areas to address. But the idea of 'competance' that many say is OK on the OL, can be just as OK elsewhere, and the better OL will make everyone better.

If you consider our draft needs, consider this: With BBs history of 2nd, 3rd, 4th round picks, which positions on the field would NEED a 1 or 2 used instead of a 3 or 4?

IMO, this draft (as well as FA) can be used with the following goal in mind:
-No area of this team is inadequate (yes if we dont bring anyone is some would be, but we will resign some of our own, and fill in also)
-This off-season affords the opportunity to take one of the 'adequate' units, which IMO would be WR, OL, DB and make it excellent, if not immediately, at least long term.
-The OL is the unit that would give us the best competitive advantage if we made it excellent, IMO.

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

3 of the 'developmental guys' at this point I'd have Hochstein, Yates, and Gorin as the favorites.

What's your take on Britt? Does he fit in here at all?

 

[Ring 6]

What's your take on Britt? Does he fit in here at all?

Throw him in the tent with the rest of the 'depth' and developmental guys.
He'll either sink or swim.

Gorin, Asworth, Hochstein, Neal are all success stories of guys who 'came out of nowehre', but there are many others that did not make it as well.

With the starters in place, the backup C/G I want to draft also, we have room for 3 more.
I really think with the position versatitlity we have, it will be the best 3 whatever position they play. None will ever need to see the field unless there is an injury, but there are always OL injuries.

As far as Britt specifically, he has potential, but his future here depends more on what he does from today forward, than what he is as of today.

 

[Mainefan]

I think we're more or less on the same page, Andy. As for WRs...is Davis good enough to be a #2? Brady threw long to him at least once a game (usually without success), but I suspect that they're connecting in practice quite often. Do you think he has the potential to be more than a backup?

 

[Water Boy]

I totally disagree with the assessment of our offensive line as being weak. Two starters (Light and Koppen) missed a significant number of games forcing (mostly) Kaczur and Hochstein into full time duty. This is the same line from 2004 (minus Adruzzi) that helped a healthy Corey Dillon get 1,600 yards. This year we had two rookies play almost the entire season and Dillon was banged up. The lack of running game and the frequent blitzing may have had something to do with Brady getting knocked down this season.

I'm troubled that Felger's mole said that Kaczur may not be as committed as they'd like. He was still able to start the majority of games at left tackle as a rookie, so I'm a little skeptical that they are ready to throw in the towel on him. With Light and Koppen coming back and having spent a 1st and a 3rd round pick on OL last season, I would be shocked if BB/Pioli spent another high round draft pick (rd 1 or 2) on OL this season. I think they can spend a pick or two in later rounds to help fill in the depth that they may loose to free agency, but I think anything beyond that would be a waste.

As I see it,the priority needs to be addressed in the draft are ILB/OLB, CB, S, WR, and RB.