Pats vs. Redskins post-game thread

[DaBruinz]

What happened between Brady and O'Brien after the int. Didn't see the game but its being reported they had to be separated ?!

From what I saw, Brady was on the sidelines complaining about his "receivers" again and BO'B had enough and lit into Brady. Especially since Brady hadn't been playing well most of the day..

 

[RodThePat]

The Patriots offense has departed from the very thing that made them dangerous in 2010: the ability to line up with two tight ends, two receivers and a running back and both run the ball or throw it out of that formation. I don't know if this is factual, but it seems to me as though they have gone to much more of a spread offense this season, with Brady taking the majority of snaps from the shotgun, which may challenge defenses through the air, but also pretty much negates the advantage you had with them keeping defenses guessing by being able to throw or run out of the same formation. Perhaps that's one of the reasons why the running game is suffering, as they've become much more predictable in regards to when they are running.

 

[TheTruth3402]

Our offense scored 28 points and if were not for two inaccurate throws by Brady in the red zone, our offense would have scored 35 points. The lack of us not running the ball IMO does not make a difference. Brady makes those two throws accurately we score 35 points plus the 7 from our defense to make it 42.

The most disconcerting part of the game today was our run defense. We know our pass defense is awful, but our run D today got gashed by a depleted Redskins line and a rookie RB.

However, the running game would, if implemented successfully, keep the defense off the field longer. Which would be a huge plus.

 

[Mack Herron]

No refs can make our defense or running game look any good.

 

[TB146]

I've been looking at certain stats over the course of the season amidst the debate of which is more important - yards per game or points per game.

Obviously, our defense is giving up a TON of yards, and they usually allow around 21 points per game. What other stats/factors contribute to that? How about Time Of Possession? If our opponents are moving the ball too easily, one good way to keep them from scoring is to not let them have the ball.

Today, the Redskins had the ball for just over 36 minutes. That's more than a ten-minute advantage over the Patriots. What would the score have been like if the TOP was closer to 30 minutes each? That would have easily been one less possession for the Redskins, if not two... and maybe one less score... or two. When the Pats lost to Pittsburgh, the Steelers had the ball for over 39 minutes... that's twice as much time as the Pats had!

Brady was 22 of 37 today, which is 15 clock stopping incompletions. Obviously, if you can keep the clock running while you have it, it takes time away from your opponents. Everybody knows the best way to grind out the clock is with a running game. The Pats attempted 37 throws today and... 16 runs. (I didn't count Brady's 4 runs because I assume any time he runs, that wasn't planned. In fact, those maybe should be counted as pass attempts.) Over the season, their pass/rush ratio has been around 1.6/1. Today it was more like 2.5/1.

Obviously, we win when Brady has the ball, but they ABSOLUTELY MUST be able to run the ball and get 3 or 4 yards when they need them. Seems like if they had just pounded the ball in or at least attempted a few runs at the end, Brady wouldn't have thrown that INT and they may have even gone up by 2 TDs.

Thoughts?

 

[Patspsycho]

The Patriots offense has departed from the very thing that made them dangerous in 2010: the ability to line up with two tight ends, two receivers and a running back and both run the ball or throw it out of that formation. I don't know if this is factual, but it seems to me as though they have gone to much more of a spread offense this season, with Brady taking the majority of snaps from the shotgun, which may challenge defenses through the air, but also pretty much negates the advantage you had with them keeping defenses guessing by being able to throw or run out of the same formation. Perhaps that's one of the reasons why the running game is suffering, as they've become much more predictable in regards to when they are running.

Couldn't have said it better.

I've always said we are much more dangerous with a one-back formation (and NO, Woodhead doesn't count as a legit back). Our bread and butter has always been the play-action.

 

[Patriot Missile]

This is frustrating to watch. The spacing on defense is worse than last year. The middle of the field is like an open ocean to the opposing QB's. Arrington is decent on man coverage and everyone else is terrible. It makes me ill just to look how this secondary lines up before the snap. 5,10 15 yards off the line, no one that can jam a wr at the line doesn't help the cause either.

The offense is elite and as of right now the Pats will go as far as they can carry them. The defense has 3 games to improve and get their healthy starters back and possibly 1 bye week.
Will that be enough? I don't know, I forgot what it was like to field a team of starters.

 

[AluminumMessiah]

Redskins had the ball for 36:09 today, Pats can, and need to run the ball a lot more. Woodhead looked good running, Law Firm looked good too, why not run more? The 3rd and 1 run play where Law Firm ran to the left was painfully obvious before the ball was snapped, terrible play call. I hope Faulk was concussed on the short reception where he was crushed. I love him for what he was, but it makes me sick to see a RB with dead legs when we have 3 other quicker, more agile, and dependable ball carriers watching from the sideline. I'd be happy if the Pats didn't defer another kickoff the rest of the season. Yes they've been successful in the 2nd half, but they need to get ball rolling in the 1st quarter.

 

[DaBruinz]

Yes I meant the lack of using the run game. There's nothing logical about BJGE and Ridley combining for five total carries the whole game. Nothing.

I totally agree with you. It was stupid by BO'B...

The Pats need to seriously work on their game planning. It's ridiculous that they don't use these guys better..

The way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if BJGE walks away from the Pats during FA just to get more reps...

 

[sarge]

What I found a bit baffling was that with under two minutes, the Redskins have first and goal from the 9 I think, then the pats do nothing to try to preserve the clock in the event the Redskins score a td.

I thought for sure after each play, the pats would call a timeout to save themselves some time in the event the skins scored.

They got lucky Moss tossed it to Mayo.

But in the event the skins did score, the pats could have gauranteed themselves about a minute and a half of clock time.

 

[stcjones]

A lot to be concerned about.

Two stinkers of a game in a row, along with the disappearance of the run game.

Plenty to discuss..

You can't fix a defense this bad right now....especially when you KEEP CUTTING GUYS and bringing other NEW GUYS IN EVERY WEEK! No continuity.....no consistency....guys don't even have any chance to get some chemistry going with their squad because of the belichick revolving door.....No pass rush, poor LB play, joke of a secondary....Not good. We also need some kind of creative VETERAN OC.....not Bobby the Ballboy getting promoted. OL is hot and cold on the run blocking once again this year and the running game is practically nonexistent recently. Why you would ever run that many "Empty" backfield sets in a game is beyond me. The opposing D doesn't even have to guess what is coming....Everyone knows it is a pass. Then they bring Woodhead in and YOU KNOW the textbook shotgun draw is coming!!! We are so damned predictable.

This is seriously one of BB's worst coaching years since he has been in the game. Looks to me like he might be burning out. It is hard to keep going and going year after year and stay at the top of your game.....especially when you REFUSE to delegate responsibilities to others and HIRE TOP NOTCH coordinators to take some of the burden off of him. You can NOT do it all BB.....I hope Kraft addresses this in the offseason.

 

[robbomango]

they should've tried to run it in, probably miss it then kick a field goal. being up 10 points looked like a lock. no reason for that INT, toss it threw the uprights next time for style points.

We're in shoot out mode which is fine with me, our D begs for it so i'm just excepting that's how it's going to be from here on out. k I'm drained, nothing earth shattering to offer. read mode

 

[hovis]

Couldn't have said it better.

I've always said we are much more dangerous with a one-back formation (and NO, Woodhead doesn't count as a legit back). Our bread and butter has always been the play-action.

Woodhead had over five yards a carry this week, many of which came out of a single-back type set. He was play-actioned to pretty successfully on the Welker TD last week. He's not the problem with the run-game, the blocking and playcalling is.

 

[DaBruinz]

This is seriously one of BB's worst coaching years since he has been in the game. Looks to me like he might be burning out. It is hard to keep going and going year after year and stay at the top of your game.....especially when you REFUSE to delegate responsibilities to others and HIRE TOP NOTCH coordinators to take some of the burden off of him. You can NOT do it all BB.....I hope Kraft addresses this in the offseason.

When will people like yourself get it through your thick skulls that responsibilities HAVE been designated? You are being totally stupid for claiming otherwise. Not to mention completely ignorant over the fact that the COORDINATOR position is only about 25 years old and that previously, it was one of the defensive coaches who called in the plays..

BB isn't doing it all and isn't trying to do it all. Only the ignorant refuse to understand this.

No offense, STC, but you've gone from a must read to someone to almost completely ignore with this sort of ignorant post.

 

[TheTruth3402]

You can't fix a defense this bad right now....especially when you KEEP CUTTING GUYS and bringing other NEW GUYS IN EVERY WEEK! No continuity.....no consistency....guys don't even have any chance to get some chemistry going with their squad because of the belichick revolving door.....No pass rush, poor LB play, joke of a secondary....Not good. We also need some kind of creative VETERAN OC.....not Bobby the Ballboy getting promoted. OL is hot and cold on the run blocking once again this year and the running game is practically nonexistent recently. Why you would ever run that many "Empty" backfield sets in a game is beyond me. The opposing D doesn't even have to guess what is coming....Everyone knows it is a pass. Then they bring Woodhead in and YOU KNOW the textbook shotgun draw is coming!!! We are so damned predictable.

This is seriously one of BB's worst coaching years since he has been in the game. Looks to me like he might be burning out. It is hard to keep going and going year after year and stay at the top of your game.....especially when you REFUSE to delegate responsibilities to others and HIRE TOP NOTCH coordinators to take some of the burden off of him. You can NOT do it all BB.....I hope Kraft addresses this in the offseason.

I would love to see a defensive coordinator come in and be allowed free reign.
No coach should have to oversee both sides of the ball making all the final decisions.

Granted, a HC should always be able to step in and confer with his coordinators, as all responsibility ultimately falls upon his shoulders, but this situation to me just reeks of BB being a bit too controlling. It should be a democracy, not a dictatorship. No, I don't have any inside knowledge that this is true, but can anyone honestly say that BOB and Patricia can stand up to Bill if necessary?

Without another voice and another perspective, I think some things go unnoticed. Who knows, perhaps I am underestimating BB, but that common wisdom is directly clashing with what I see on the field week in and week out, particularly on D.

I think the offense can be altered simply by integrating the run a bit, but this defense needs an overhaul. I will gladly eat crow on that matter if I am wrong, but I feel that a new voice is needed.

EDIT: I should also mention that I know BB doesn't call all the plays. But he has said himself that he is the one who makes the ultimate decision and I have seen him change plays and strategies on the NFL Films footage on both sides of the ball. That would never happen in most head coach/coordinator relationships.

 

[DaBruinz]

Did anyone see Eric Moore get on the field??? If he didn't play, why activate him over Warren? Makes no sense..

 

[hovis]

I would love to see a defensive coordinator come in and be allowed free reign.
No coach should have to oversee both sides of the ball making all the final decisions.

Granted, a HC should always be able to step in and confer with his coordinators, as all responsibility ultimately falls upon his shoulders, but this situation to me just reeks of BB being a bit too controlling. It should be a democracy, not a dictatorship. No, I don't have any inside knowledge that this is true, but can anyone honestly say that BOB and Patricia can stand up to Bill if necessary?

Without another voice and another perspective, I think some things go unnoticed. Who knows, perhaps I am underestimating BB, but that common wisdom is directly clashing with what I see on the field week in and week out, particularly on D.

I think the offense can be altered simply by integrating the run a bit, but this defense needs an overhaul. I will gladly eat crow on that matter if I am wrong, but I feel that a new voice is needed.

Instead of a new voice, how about packaging two picks for a top 10 FS?

 

[RodThePat]

I would love to see a defensive coordinator come in and be allowed free reign.
No coach should have to oversee both sides of the ball making all the final decisions.

Granted, a HC should always be able to step in and confer with his coordinators, as all responsibility ultimately falls upon his shoulders, but this situation to me just reeks of BB being a bit too controlling. It should be a democracy, not a dictatorship. No, I don't have any inside knowledge that this is true, but can anyone honestly say that BOB and Patricia can stand up to Bill if necessary?

Without another voice and another perspective, I think some things go unnoticed. Who knows, perhaps I am underestimating BB, but that common wisdom is directly clashing with what I see on the field week in and week out, particularly on D.

I think the offense can be altered simply by integrating the run a bit, but this defense needs an overhaul. I will gladly eat crow on that matter if I am wrong, but I feel that a new voice is needed.

No way that will ever happen. Belichick, being a Bill Parcells guy, will not ever bring outsiders to have relevant coaching jobs with the Patriots. He likes guys who are integrated into the way he does things, and that's why he always promotes from within. I wouldn't expect that to change.

 

[strngplyr]

Quoted for emphasis.

Who cares if we passed for over 300 yards on them? If we had offensive balance I'd be ok with that. 37 passes, 20 runs. That's incredibly stupid when we were averaging over 4 yards per carry for most of the game.

If we didn't have 350+ passing yards we would have lost because of 0 balance.

We also score far too quickly because of it, forcing our defense back out on the field even longer than they should be.

Our drive times were:

0:39 4 plays 24 yards (punt)
0:53 2 plays 60 yards (TD)
1:20 3 plays -4 yards (punt)
5:55 16 plays 72 yards (FG (our longest drive of the game by far, how pathetic is that?))
2:13 8 plays 75 yards (FG)
2:55 7 plays 80 yards (TD)
2:32 6 plays 80 yards (TD)
2:45 5 plays 21 yards (punt)
4:04 8 plays 45 yards (INT)
0:20 1 plays -2 yards (kneel down)

Redskins averaged 3.5 minutes per drive, nearly a minute longer than all but 2 of our drives, and had the ball for 36:xx minutes to our 23:xx.

Again, 37 pass vs 20 runs. Our defense leaks like a screen door on a submarine. We average 4.0 ypc at the end of the game, and had very few bad runs today.

Being happy about Brady being the first to throw for 3xx yards this season against the Redskins is just silly. It's almost like BOB heard nobody had done that and made it his game plan to be the first to do so. I will never understand why we pass the ball so often when we have run effectively. This offense operates so well off of the play action pass.

 

[stcjones]

the lack of a lead rb.... the lack of another wr option is going to bite this team in jan... i think the main thing is getting a bye right now... we need one to get guys like chung and spikes healthy...

You are right in that the running game or lack thereof is a problem. But once again, like last year....it all starts with the OL and they are getting destroyed by EVERYONE at the LOS. NO one is going to be overly successful running if there are no holes to go through...don't care who the RB is. That having been said....why they can't get creative and bring in someone as a FB/blocking back and give Ridley some more chances....is beyond me......or alot more passes in the flat or out of the backfield to the RB isn't happening either. Basically we are extremely predictable. And...like you say we don't really have any WR other than Welk that defenses are scared of.....Branch has played well but has lost steps and isn't leaving many DC's scratching their heads anymore in the game prep room. As far as D.......I hope getting some guys back will help at least stop the bleeding out there.....but in reality, too many holes to fill right now to go anywhere this year....