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Patriots | Willing to listen to offers for backup QBs


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You were doing great until your first apostrophe. The Patriots have to be looking for the next Steve Young, now. TFB is going to be 35 in a few seconds. If the Patriots do anything, they keep re-stocking the cupboard and have done an impressive - unprecedented - job of replacing everyone from the 2002 SB team and still making it into the big game. There's only one guy left to replace. Belichick and the Krafts and Brady know that.

But who knows about either one of those guys? Mallett has the physical tools and Hoyer has the smarts and experience in the system, but neither is proven. Maybe one of them is the Chosen One. We just don't know.

As for listening for a trade opportunity, the Patriots will always do that. With the rookie cap being such a friendly thing, maybe this is the year of the big trade up to grab an elite player - probably a top offensive or defensive lineman - both areas where top-flight talent is needed. With the flat cap and $11 million in space right now, a rookie salary for three years is a bargain compared to any previous year.

I could see trading Mallett or Hoyer plus the #27 pick for a top ten selection to get a guy like Mankins or Seymour. There are a couple of rookies in each category that fit the profile but who will be long gone at #27.

They got Mankins at #32 without having to trade up. In fact some claimed he was a reach at that point... They got Seymour without trading up, much to the chagrin of some who claimed he was not all that...and the price they paid for him was sucking in BB's first season here as he dismantled and rebuilt the team. The profiles of which you speak are developed by scouts and pundits who are generalists and often talent or measurables centric. Bill is looking for talent that fits his specific system. His draft board therefore may bear no resemblance to the valuations others have placed on certain players.
 
IMO, getting rid of Mallet will be a big mistake, rivaling the Curse of the Bambino.

Mallett has the tools to become a great quarterback in the NFL, and with the Pats he could put up career numbers coming close to, or eclipsing Brady's.

Hoyer on the other hand, will never be a great starting quarterback, but a better than average backup and will do well if given the opportunity to play in games when it mattered, not just in garbage time.
Lol, This comment is so ridiculously ******ed.
 
If I were BB, my willingness to only have one good backup for any position on the roster would depend on whether we play against Bernard Pollard or not this coming season.
 
Two possible reasons to want to trade a backup QB:

1. Desire to save a roster slot.
2. Expectation of getting another appealing QB prospect.

That's beside the obvious of "Let's cash in on Hoyer while we can."

Anyhow, given that Hoyer didn't get movement at a 2nd-round tender, that suggests a cap on his trade value ...
 
Two possible reasons to want to trade a backup QB:

1. Desire to save a roster slot.
2. Expectation of getting another appealing QB prospect.

That's beside the obvious of "Let's cash in on Hoyer while we can."

Anyhow, given that Hoyer didn't get movement at a 2nd-round tender, that suggests a cap on his trade value ...

Kellen Moore, best QB in the draft outside Andrew Luck IMO.
 
Two possible reasons to want to trade a backup QB:

1. Desire to save a roster slot.
2. Expectation of getting another appealing QB prospect.

That's beside the obvious of "Let's cash in on Hoyer while we can."

Anyhow, given that Hoyer didn't get movement at a 2nd-round tender, that suggests a cap on his trade value ...

Not one RFA in the NFL got a bite. Not a valid comparison to real value. If he is dealt, it is Draft day.
If they keep him , fine= perhaps nothing in 2013.
DW Toys

P.S. Another angle and I can't think of the answer. If we lose Hoyer in 2013 do we get a comp pick even as a UDFA? I think so but the rules might have changed this year. In that case it makes trading him now less of an issue. I know it is what he signs for. If he gets Flynn money, maybe a fourth.Anyone know?
 
They got Mankins at #32 without having to trade up. In fact some claimed he was a reach at that point...but not Mel Kiper Jr., ironically, who had to calm everyone down post draft by explaining what a great draft pick Mankins was... They got Seymour without trading up, much to the chagrin of some who claimed he was not all that...specifically, Ron Borges, in his now infamous MSNBC blurb(why you would not be specific is curious...who are you trying NOT to anger by being so unclear? ...and the price they paid for him was sucking in BB's first season here... another curious remark...his stats say otherwise, as do memories of that first season...as he dismantled and rebuilt the team. The profiles of which you speak are developed by scouts and pundits who are generalists and often talent or measurables centric. Bill is looking for talent that fits his specific system. His draft board therefore may bear no resemblance to the valuations others have placed on certain players....taken almost word for word from War Room by Michael Holley.

here's Seymour's stats...contrast his rookie season with his first season as a Raider...and a seasoned veteran....I fail to comprehend your "sucking" remark about his first season as a pro, one in which he played 13 games.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/2554/richard-seymour
 
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Not one RFA in the NFL got a bite. Not a valid comparison to real value. If he is dealt, it is Draft day.
If they keep him , fine= perhaps nothing in 2013.
DW Toys

P.S. Another angle and I can't think of the answer. If we lose Hoyer in 2013 do we get a comp pick even as a UDFA? I think so but the rules might have changed this year. In that case it makes trading him now less of an issue. I know it is what he signs for. If he gets Flynn money, maybe a fourth.Anyone know?

Where a player was drafted should have essentially zero impact on comp picks.
 
here's Seymour's stats...contrast his rookie season with his first season as a Raider...and a seasoned veteran....I fail to comprehend your "sucking" remark about his first season as a pro, one in which he played 13 games.

Richard Seymour Stats - Oakland Raiders - ESPN

Reading comprehension is indeed a lost art. I guess I could have been wordier but I assumed people here who have followed the team for any length of time get stuff and recall the specifics where media criticism of picks is concerned and since the audience attention span here is often limited due to ADHD (but I digress, that's a topic for another forum...). And they sucked in 2000, the year before his rookie season which is how they landed the #6 pick as opposed to trading up for it...and got him. :ugh:

And for the record, I haven't yet read War Room, so maybe I just get how they think based on years of observing their thought process in action... It amazes me how many here still don't simply by osmosis...
 
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here's Seymour's stats...contrast his rookie season with his first season as a Raider...and a seasoned veteran....I fail to comprehend your "sucking" remark about his first season as a pro, one in which he played 13 games.

Richard Seymour Stats - Oakland Raiders - ESPN

.as he dismantled and rebuilt the team. The profiles of which you speak are developed by scouts and pundits who are generalists and often talent or measurables centric. Bill is looking for talent that fits his specific system. His draft board therefore may bear no resemblance to the valuations others have placed on certain players..
I'm pretty sure that Mo was referring to the 2000 season in his comments above. Seymour wasn't drafted until 2001 However you are correct, Seymour certainly did NOT suck in his first year, most of which was playing NT out of position.
 
They got Mankins at #32 without having to trade up. In fact some claimed he was a reach at that point... They got Seymour without trading up, much to the chagrin of some who claimed he was not all that...and the price they paid for him was sucking in BB's first season here as he dismantled and rebuilt the team. The profiles of which you speak are developed by scouts and pundits who are generalists and often talent or measurables centric. Bill is looking for talent that fits his specific system. His draft board therefore may bear no resemblance to the valuations others have placed on certain players.


Mankins at #32 and Richard Seymour at #6 overall were important selections to the Patriots. Solder was #17 overall. It would be great if the Patriots could get two linemen - one on each side of the ball - of their caliber in this draft to keep the youth movement in the trenches going. They'd have to trade up to do that, although this is a very deep draft with loads of underclassmen at the skill positions. Maybe two guys that will pan out show up at #27 and #31. I doubt it, though.
 
Again, Hoyer couldn't get himself a gig for a second round pick. As for the "physical tools", there may be a more meaningless term in football, but I'm not sure any of us have ever heard it. Mallett, supposedly blessed with all this first round talent and all these physical tools, fell to the 3rd round in a year where teams were QB crazy in round one. Does that mean he'll never make it? No, but it's not a good sign, either.


At this point, I think you've lost track of the argument.



They're the coaching/scouting staff. If they haven't gotten some clues after a season, they should resign.

One fellow named Dan Marino knows about being passed over on rumors, until a secure, future HOF Coach, snapped him up. And another fellow that also played at Michigan, got passed over too. Name of Brady or some such.


I don't know if Mallett will make good. He has rare physical talents except for the most overated stat for a QB, the speed to run. But I can certainly tell when rumors with little substance are runniing rife, and constantly repeated, by non-researched air heads who fashion themselves as sport journalists.

If Belchick took him without knowing much, based purely on rep, and falling unexpectedly into his lap, I would be more circumspect. But he spent several hours in an in-depth interview, so I would judge he knew exactly what he was getting. The only question was Ryan's leadership abilities, and off field personality. That would have been evident to Bill Belichick, during thre leadup to the interview itself.

IMHO, Mallett handled the coaching change at Michigan with the maximum amount of class, correctness and maturity.

The new coach replacing retiring Lloyd, told him he wanted to run his wildcat and he didn't fit. Mallett evinced no recriminations, just executed a quiet orderly exit.

He carefuly interviewed, didn't step down in class, so as to not have to wait a year, waited, and went to a big time power in the SEC. Where he set records, for a Coach, who had NFL Head Coaching experience and ran a pro system. I think that Mallett handled that crisis well. He also excelled on the gridiron but also in the classsroom. I beleive his GPA was over 3.0

He did impress Belichick with his football knowledge. The rumors have turned out to be untrue, regarding his captaincy and supposed loathing by his teamates. In his year with the Pats he has been a model Belichickian citizen-rookie, being seen but not heard.

If I am not mistaken he also won a a couple of "black shirts" for the best efforts at prepping the starters for the opposition tendencies that week.

We shall see, but I feel more sanguine about the post-Brady years than ever.

I am hardly a QB guru, but I could see what Matt Cassell became, a guy with triangle numbers, and it wasn't as a mere scrub. I could even see the "tests of Job" that Belichick was inflicting on him his third preseason, to see if he rattled, while others wanted to dump him for a bucket of warm spit. He passed Belichicks gauntlet, when he didn't rattle.

I like Hoyer, and I think a team could win with him. I liken him to a Brian Sipe, a wonderful game manager as a QB, and someone BB surely admires, from his Brown's time.

But Ryan Mallett could be a Peyton Manning, who his game resembles, elite arm, great size, sliding ability, but absolutely no running ability, and a brain; or a Dan Marino, who had every similar physical attribute, but perhaps less brainpower,but maybe more will to win.

I DO NOT THINK he resembles a Jamarcus Russell in any manner, shape or form.
 
I'd have to guess that they both stay for the upcoming season.

I think that Hoyer knows the system pretty well by now, and has some sense of ability to lead us to a couple/few victories should the unthinkable happen, and Brady go down for a month or so.

I would also assume that Belichick wants to at least get a better look at Mallett in live game settings, since it would be pretty unfair to judge and rate him based on an extremely limited knowledge of the playbook in the 2011 preseason.

I couldn't imagine Belichick not at least giving Mallett a chance to see what he's got vs real (or the closest thing to it) NFL competition in the upcoming preseason games. Another year of playcall knowledge also would tend to be fair when trying to assess his potential fit here. There's also some speculation that points to BB being happier with 3 QB's vs 2. For a guy who tends to look towards the future just as much as the present in many aspects, I actually think he likes having a developmental QB for the future.

My hunch also tells me that Belichick is closer to being pleased with Hoyer's progression than not pleased. It would seem to me that Hoyer would be more valuable here than most other possible places, not to mention that his knowledge of the system would also give him the better chance at succeeding in this particular setting.

I don't think either one will be gone/traded until at least next offseason, and I also think that both are somewhat overrated by many here as it pertains to any possible trade compensation that we'd get. Unless they would choose to give them away, I'm not seeing the big debate.
 
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Its really hard to play QB in the NFL at 6'0"

Yes, I find it extremely difficult.

358px-Drew_Brees_at_Saints_Super_Bowl_parade_2010-02-09.jpg
 
At least it wasn't a pic of Doug Flutie or something, which is what I was waiting for someone to do :eek:

I love Flutie, only team he did poorly on was the Chargers, and that wasn't even his fault that team sucked. Why Buffalo went with Rob Johnson I don't know, but that was a poor decision by the ownership.
 
I love Flutie, only team he did poorly on was the Chargers, and that wasn't even his fault that team sucked. Why Buffalo went with Rob Johnson I don't know, but that was a poor decision by the ownership.

Oh, I love Flutie too. I remember him being my guy when he played in the NCAA's at BC. I'll never forget watching the infamous hail mary TD pass on live TV, as Kosar from Miami was from my hometown at the time. For some reason I took a liking to Flutie instead...good childhood memory right there.
 
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